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[quote][i]Originally posted by Diffan[/i]
[br]So the [b]Titles of Priests[/b] threat found [url="http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23954"][b]HERE[/b][/URL] really got me thinking about [i]ALL[/i] the prestige classes 3e/3.5 put out over their run and how many of them had requirements of deities/patrons, but I don't think a comprehensive list of them were ever created? Since I'm currently in the midst of preparing my next campaign (3rd Edition, set in 1374 DR in the Border Kingdoms - [i]Sunless Citadel[/i]) then further south ([i]Red Hand of Doom[/i] I wanted to give my players a good idea of what kind of specialty priests and divine characters they could make.

So, I'm making as big of a list of Prestige Classes and their corresponding Deities. I am taking from non-FR sources ([i]Complete Divine[/i], etc) and assigning them FR deities - or the ones that make the most sense - so that there's a pretty comprehensive list to pick from. If I miss any, please feel free to file those in with their source.

I might do another threat of all the Affiliations in 3.5 (I've counted 26) and then convert them to the Forgotten Realms setting too.

[b]Arachne[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Female, Lloth 
[b]Arcane Devotee[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Any    
[b]Arcane Hierophant[/b] ([i]Races of the Wild[/i]) � Lurue, Mielikki, Silvanus
[b]Auspician[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Beshaba or Tymora   
[b]Battleguard of Tempus[/b] ([i]Dragon #317[/i]) � Tempus	
[b]Battle Howler of Gruumsh[/b] ([i]Dragon #311[/i]) - Gruumsh
[b]Battle Priest of Cormyr[/b] ([i]Dragon #307[/i]) � Helm, Lathander, Sel�ne, Tempus, Torm, Tymora, Tyr 
[b]Black Flame Zealot[/b] ([i]Complete Divine, Unapproachable East[/i]) � Kossuth 
[b]Beloved of Lurue[/b] ([i]Book of Exalted Deeds[/i], originally Beloved of Valarian) � Lurue 
[b]Blessed of Gruumsh[/b] ([i]Dragon Compendium[/i]) - Gruumsh
[b]Celebrant of Sharess[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) - Sharess
[b]Champion of Corellon Larethian[/b] ([i]Races of the Wild[/i]) � Corellon 
[b]Champion of Torm[/b] ([i]Candlekeep[/i], [url="http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22928"][b]HERE[/b][/url]) � Torm 
[b]Church Inquisitor[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i]) � Amaunator, Bahamut, Ilmater, Helm, Hoar, Torm, or Tyr
[b]Contemplative[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i]) - Any
[b]Darkmask[/b] ([i]Lords of Darkness[/i]) � Drow/Half-Drow of Vhaeraun 
[b]Deathstalker of Bhaal[/b] ([i]Dragon #322[/i]) - Bhaal
[b]Divine Champion[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Any 
[b]Divine Crusader[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i]) � Any 
[b]Divine Disciple[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Any  
[b]Divine Oracle[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i]) - Any, though many worship Savras
[b]Divine Seeker[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Any  
[b]Doomguide[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Kelemvor 
[b]Dreadmaster[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Bane 
[b]Dread Witch[/b] ([i]Heroes of Horror[/i]) - Bane
[b]Dweomerkeeper[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Mystra
[b]Entropomancer[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i]) � Any non-Good (although gravitate towards Jergal and Shar) 
[b]Eye of Horus-Re[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Horus-Re
[b]Evangelist[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i]) � Any 
[b]Fist of the Forest[/b] ([i]Complete Champion[/i]) � Oghma, Lurue, Mielikki, Silvanus
[b]Fleet Runner of Mielikki[/b] ([i]Dragon Compendium[/i]) - Mielikki
[b]Forest Master[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Silvanus 
[b]Forest Reeve[/b] ([i]Complete Champion[/i]) � Silvanus 
[b]Goldeye[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Waukeen  
[b]Gray Guard[/b] ([i]Complete Scoundrel[/i]) � Bahamut, Helm, Hoar, Torm, and Tyr  
[b]Hammer of Moradin[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Moradin 
[b]Harper Priest[/b] ([i]Magic of Faer�n[/i]) � Denier, Eldath, Lliira, Mielikki, Milil, Mystra, Oghma, Sel�ne, Silvanus, and Tymora; elven pantheon
[b]Hathran[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Chauntea, Mielikki, or Mystra 
[b]Heartwarder[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Sune  
[b]Hierophant[/b] ([i]Dungeon Masters Guide[/i]) � Any  
[b]Horned Harbinger[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Myrkul 
[b]Hunter of the Dead[/b] ([i]Complete Warrior[/i]) � Any non-evil, mostly Kelemvor and Lathander 
[b]Icemaiden[/b] ([i]Candlekeep, [url="http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/icemaiden.htm"][/i][b]HERE[/b][/url]) � Auril 
[b]Justice Hammer of Moradin[/b]  ([i]Dragon #328[/i]) � Moradin
[b]Justice of Weald and Woe[/b] ([i]Champions of Ruin[/i]) - Any, although many venerate woodland deities or the elven pantheon (in particular -Shevarash) 
[b]Justicar of Tyr[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Tyr  
[b]Knight-Errant of Mystra[/b] ([i]Candlekeep[/i], [b][url="http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20234"]HERE[/url][/b]) - Mystra
[b]Knight Hospitaler[/b] ([i]Complete Warrior[/i]) � Any non-chaotic, often gravitates towards deities with Knightly orders such as Helm, Ilmater, Kelemvor, Lathander, Torm, and Tyr 
[b]Knights of the Blue Moon[/b] ([i]City of Splendors: Waterdeep[/i]) � Mystra or Sel�ne   
[b]Knights of the Chalice[/b] ([i]Complete Warrior[/i]) � Any LG, NG, or LN deity
[b]Knight of the Iron Glacier[/b] ([i]Frostburn[/i]) � Ulutiu  
[b]Knights of the Weave[/b] ([i]Champions of Valor[/i]) � Azuth or Mystra  
[b]Loremaster[/b] ([i]Dungeon Master's Guide[/i]) � Any with Knowledge domain   
[b]Maiden of Pain[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Female, Loviatar  
[b]Maquar Crusader[/b] ([i]Shining South[/i]) � The Adama  
[b]Martyred Champion of Ilmater[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Ilmater 
[b]Master of Radiance[/b] ([i]Libris Mortis[/i]) � Amaunator, Horus-Re, Lathander
[b]Master Specialist[/b] ([i]Complete Mage[/i]) - Often the deity closely aligned with their school of magic. 
[b]Monk of the Long Death[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Velsharoon, Kiaransalee and Loviatar
[b]Moon Drover[/b] ([i]Dragon #307[/i]) - Bright Nydra (aka Sel�ne)
[b]Morninglord[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) � Lathander
[b]Mystic Keeper of Corellon Larethian[/b] ([i]Dragon #328[/i]) - Corellon Larethian
[b]Mystic Theurge[/b] ([i]Dungeon Masters Guide[/i]) � Any 
[b]Nightcloak[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Shar
[b]Nightmare Spinner[/b] ([i]Complete Mage[/i]) - Bane or Loviatar  
[b]Ordained Champion[/b] ([i]Complete Champion[/i]) � Bane or Tyr
[b]Occular Adept[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Gzemnid
[b]Pale Master[/b] ([i]Libris Mortis[/i]) - Kiaransalee or Velsharoon
[b]Pious Templar[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i]) � Any 
[b]Radiant Servant[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i], originally Radiant Servant of Pelor)� Amaunator, Horus-Re, and Lathander
[b]Ravager[/b] ([i]Complete Warrior[/i]) � Garagos or Tempus 
[b]Ruby Knight Vindicator[/b] ([i]Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords[/i]) � Red Knight 
[b]Sacred Exorcist[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i]) � Any good
[b]Sacred Fist[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i]) � Any 
[b]Sacred Purifier[/b] ([i]Libris Mortis[/i]) � Any non-evil.  
[b]Seeker of the Misty Isle[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i]) � Corellon Larethian 
[b]Scourge Maiden[/b] ([i]Shining South[/i]) � Female, Loviatar 
[b]Shadowbane Inquisitor[/b] ([i]Complete Adventurer[/i]) � Helm, Torm, Tyr
[b]Shadowbane Stalker[/b] ([i]Complete Adventurer[/i]) � Helm, Torm, Tyr
[b]Shadowspy[/b] ([i]Complete Champion[/i]) � Amaunator or Lathander
[b]Shadowstriker[/b] ([i]Complete Champion[/i]) � Amaunator or Lathander 
[b]Silverhair Knight[/b] ([i]Dragon #315[/i]) - Eilistraee
[b]Silverstar[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Sel�ne  
[b]Stormlord[/b] ([i]Complete Divine, Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Talos  
[b]Stormcaster[/b] ([i]Stormwrack[/i]) � Istishia, Talos 
[b]Strifeleader[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Cyric 
[b]Sunmaster[/b] ([i]Lost Empires of Faer�n[/i]) � Amaunator  
[b]Sun Soul Monk[/b] ([i]City of Splendors: Waterdeep[/i]) � Lathander 
[b]Sword Dancer[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Eilistraee, elf or half-elf
[b]Talontar Blightlord[/b] ([i]Unapproachable East[/i]) � Talona 
[b]Triadic Knight[/b] ([i]Champions of Valor[/i]) � Ilmater, Torm, or Tyr  
[b]Techsmith[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Gond  
[b]True Necromancer[/b] ([i]Libris Mortis[/i]) - Kiaransalee or Velsharoon
[b]Warpriest[/b] ([i]Complete Divine[/i]) � Any 
[b]Watchknight of Helm[/b] ([i]Candlekeep[/i], [url="http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21571"][b]HERE[/b][/url]) � Helm 
[b]Waveservant[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Umberlee 
[b]Wearer of Purple[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Any evil (although gravitate towards Bane, Velsharoon, Gargauth or Falazure) 
[b]Whitehorn[/b] ([i]Dragon #307[/i]) � Lurue 
[b]Windwalker[/b] ([i]Faiths and Pantheons[/i]) � Shaundakul
[b]Yathrinshee[/b] ([i]Player's Guide to Faer�n[/i]) - Female Drow, Kiaransalee
[/quote]

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T O P I C R E V I E W
Diffan	Posted - 02 Apr 2021 : 01:43:48 So the Titles of Priests threat found HERE really got me thinking about ALL the prestige classes 3e/3.5 put out over their run and how many of them had requirements of deities/patrons, but I don't think a comprehensive list of them were ever created? Since I'm currently in the midst of preparing my next campaign (3rd Edition, set in 1374 DR in the Border Kingdoms - Sunless Citadel) then further south (Red Hand of Doom I wanted to give my players a good idea of what kind of specialty priests and divine characters they could make. So, I'm making as big of a list of Prestige Classes and their corresponding Deities. I am taking from non-FR sources (Complete Divine, etc) and assigning them FR deities - or the ones that make the most sense - so that there's a pretty comprehensive list to pick from. If I miss any, please feel free to file those in with their source. I might do another threat of all the Affiliations in 3.5 (I've counted 26) and then convert them to the Forgotten Realms setting too. Arachne (Faiths and Pantheons) � Female, Lloth Arcane Devotee (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Any Arcane Hierophant (Races of the Wild) � Lurue, Mielikki, Silvanus Auspician (Faiths and Pantheons) � Beshaba or Tymora Battleguard of Tempus (Dragon #317) � Tempus Battle Howler of Gruumsh (Dragon #311) - Gruumsh Battle Priest of Cormyr (Dragon #307) � Helm, Lathander, Sel�ne, Tempus, Torm, Tymora, Tyr Black Flame Zealot (Complete Divine, Unapproachable East) � Kossuth Beloved of Lurue (Book of Exalted Deeds, originally Beloved of Valarian) � Lurue Blessed of Gruumsh (Dragon Compendium) - Gruumsh Celebrant of Sharess (Player's Guide to Faer�n) - Sharess Champion of Corellon Larethian (Races of the Wild) � Corellon Champion of Torm (Candlekeep, HERE) � Torm Church Inquisitor (Complete Divine) � Amaunator, Bahamut, Ilmater, Helm, Hoar, Torm, or Tyr Contemplative (Complete Divine) - Any Darkmask (Lords of Darkness) � Drow/Half-Drow of Vhaeraun Deathstalker of Bhaal (Dragon #322) - Bhaal Divine Champion (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Any Divine Crusader (Complete Divine) � Any Divine Disciple (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Any Divine Oracle (Complete Divine) - Any, though many worship Savras Divine Seeker (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Any Doomguide (Faiths and Pantheons) � Kelemvor Dreadmaster (Faiths and Pantheons) � Bane Dread Witch (Heroes of Horror) - Bane Dweomerkeeper (Faiths and Pantheons) � Mystra Entropomancer (Complete Divine) � Any non-Good (although gravitate towards Jergal and Shar) Eye of Horus-Re (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Horus-Re Evangelist (Complete Divine) � Any Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) � Oghma, Lurue, Mielikki, Silvanus Fleet Runner of Mielikki (Dragon Compendium) - Mielikki Forest Master (Faiths and Pantheons) � Silvanus Forest Reeve (Complete Champion) � Silvanus Goldeye (Faiths and Pantheons) � Waukeen Gray Guard (Complete Scoundrel) � Bahamut, Helm, Hoar, Torm, and Tyr Hammer of Moradin (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Moradin Harper Priest (Magic of Faer�n) � Denier, Eldath, Lliira, Mielikki, Milil, Mystra, Oghma, Sel�ne, Silvanus, and Tymora; elven pantheon Hathran (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Chauntea, Mielikki, or Mystra Heartwarder (Faiths and Pantheons) � Sune Hierophant (Dungeon Masters Guide) � Any Horned Harbinger (Faiths and Pantheons) � Myrkul Hunter of the Dead (Complete Warrior) � Any non-evil, mostly Kelemvor and Lathander Icemaiden (Candlekeep, HERE) � Auril Justice Hammer of Moradin (Dragon #328) � Moradin Justice of Weald and Woe (Champions of Ruin) - Any, although many venerate woodland deities or the elven pantheon (in particular -Shevarash) Justicar of Tyr (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Tyr Knight-Errant of Mystra (Candlekeep, HERE) - Mystra Knight Hospitaler (Complete Warrior) � Any non-chaotic, often gravitates towards deities with Knightly orders such as Helm, Ilmater, Kelemvor, Lathander, Torm, and Tyr Knights of the Blue Moon (City of Splendors: Waterdeep) � Mystra or Sel�ne Knights of the Chalice (Complete Warrior) � Any LG, NG, or LN deity Knight of the Iron Glacier (Frostburn) � Ulutiu Knights of the Weave (Champions of Valor) � Azuth or Mystra Loremaster (Dungeon Master's Guide) � Any with Knowledge domain Maiden of Pain (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Female, Loviatar Maquar Crusader (Shining South) � The Adama Martyred Champion of Ilmater (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Ilmater Master of Radiance (Libris Mortis) � Amaunator, Horus-Re, Lathander Master Specialist (Complete Mage) - Often the deity closely aligned with their school of magic. Monk of the Long Death (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Velsharoon, Kiaransalee and Loviatar Moon Drover (Dragon #307) - Bright Nydra (aka Sel�ne) Morninglord (Player's Guide to Faer�n) � Lathander Mystic Keeper of Corellon Larethian (Dragon #328) - Corellon Larethian Mystic Theurge (Dungeon Masters Guide) � Any Nightcloak (Faiths and Pantheons) � Shar Nightmare Spinner (Complete Mage) - Bane or Loviatar Ordained Champion (Complete Champion) � Bane or Tyr Occular Adept (Faiths and Pantheons) � Gzemnid Pale Master (Libris Mortis) - Kiaransalee or Velsharoon Pious Templar (Complete Divine) � Any Radiant Servant (Complete Divine, originally Radiant Servant of Pelor)� Amaunator, Horus-Re, and Lathander Ravager (Complete Warrior) � Garagos or Tempus Ruby Knight Vindicator (Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords) � Red Knight Sacred Exorcist (Complete Divine) � Any good Sacred Fist (Complete Divine) � Any Sacred Purifier (Libris Mortis) � Any non-evil. Seeker of the Misty Isle (Complete Divine) � Corellon Larethian Scourge Maiden (Shining South) � Female, Loviatar Shadowbane Inquisitor (Complete Adventurer) � Helm, Torm, Tyr Shadowbane Stalker (Complete Adventurer) � Helm, Torm, Tyr Shadowspy (Complete Champion) � Amaunator or Lathander Shadowstriker (Complete Champion) � Amaunator or Lathander Silverhair Knight (Dragon #315) - Eilistraee Silverstar (Faiths and Pantheons) � Sel�ne Stormlord (Complete Divine, Faiths and Pantheons) � Talos Stormcaster (Stormwrack) � Istishia, Talos Strifeleader (Faiths and Pantheons) � Cyric Sunmaster (Lost Empires of Faer�n) � Amaunator Sun Soul Monk (City of Splendors: Waterdeep) � Lathander Sword Dancer (Faiths and Pantheons) � Eilistraee, elf or half-elf Talontar Blightlord (Unapproachable East) � Talona Triadic Knight (Champions of Valor) � Ilmater, Torm, or Tyr Techsmith (Faiths and Pantheons) � Gond True Necromancer (Libris Mortis) - Kiaransalee or Velsharoon Warpriest (Complete Divine) � Any Watchknight of Helm (Candlekeep, HERE) � Helm Waveservant (Faiths and Pantheons) � Umberlee Wearer of Purple (Faiths and Pantheons) � Any evil (although gravitate towards Bane, Velsharoon, Gargauth or Falazure) Whitehorn (Dragon #307) � Lurue Windwalker (Faiths and Pantheons) � Shaundakul Yathrinshee (Player's Guide to Faer�n) - Female Drow, Kiaransalee
14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Diffan	Posted - 06 Apr 2021 : 19:22:29 quote: Originally posted by LordofBones I thought about those deities, but Garagos is a god of unchecked slaughter, Loviatar a goddess of torment and Bhaal a death god with a primary interest in murder. Blood magi don't really fit those categories as far as flavor text goes. I guess if you consider blood magic to be a subset of 'creepy magic', the closest would be Velsharoon. This PrC always gave me the creepy playing with forbidden stuff vibe. Not sure why someone venerating Ilmater would create a Homunculus that can be given his wounds (should be the opposite honestly) and they're restricted from ever being Lawful-Good. quote: Originally posted by LordofBones Outside of that, the other go-to deity would be Afflux, from Libris Mortis. EDIT: Oh hell, I mixed up Garagos and Gargauth. Yes, ravagers should worship Garagos. I'll have to check out Afflux. And don't worry, Gargauth or Garagos or Grumbar all sound similar
LordofBones	Posted - 06 Apr 2021 : 14:22:10 I thought about those deities, but Garagos is a god of unchecked slaughter, Loviatar a goddess of torment and Bhaal a death god with a primary interest in murder. Blood magi don't really fit those categories as far as flavor text goes. I guess if you consider blood magic to be a subset of 'creepy magic', the closest would be Velsharoon. Outside of that, the other go-to deity would be Afflux, from Libris Mortis. EDIT: Oh hell, I mixed up Garagos and Gargauth. Yes, ravagers should worship Garagos.
Demzer	Posted - 06 Apr 2021 : 12:38:57 quote: Originally posted by LordofBones Blood Magus - Kanchelsis. I can't think of many Faerunian powers related to blood in general. Garagos, Bhaal, Loviatar, ... Ilmater? quote: Originally posted by LordofBones Green Star Adept - hell if I know Tough one. Trying to think of any deity with ties to meteorite/comets and/or full body replacements. Gond might be one (emphasizing the discovery and experimentation aspect), Thoth another one for his blend of magic and technology in Mulhorand (if I remember correctly), going outside the human pantheon there might be a case for Dugmaren Brightmantle or Marthammor Duin of the Mordinsamman. EDIT: for Ravagers, are you sure you want Gargauth (the ex-archdevil) and not Garagos (the multi-armed bloodthirsty demigod of massacres)?
LordofBones	Posted - 06 Apr 2021 : 12:16:58 Agent Retriever - Gwaeron Windstrom, lawful powers in general Acolyte of the Skin - any tanar'ri lord. Arcane Lord - Azuth, Mystra, Savras, Velsharoon Argent Savant - Azuth, Mystra, Talos Blood Magus - Kanchelsis. I can't think of many Faerunian powers related to blood in general. Divine Emissary - any power with a paladin order or allows paladins of honor/freedom/slaughter/tyranny Effigy Master - Gond, Laduguer Elemental Savant - the Gods of Fury, the Elemental Four Enlightened Fist - any magic-related deity that's a patron to a monk order (Shar, Velsharoon, etc) Epic Infiltrator - Mask, Cyric, Shar Fatespinner - Savras, Beshaba, Tymora Geometer - Deneir, Oghma, Azuth Green Star Adept - hell if I know Mage of the Arcane Order - Azuth, Mystra, Savras, Velsharoon, deities with specific magical orders other than the big four Master Transmogrifist - Azuth, Mystra, Mask, Cyric Mindbender - Bane Seeker of the Song/Sublime Chord - Milil, Deneir Wayfarer Guide - Shaundakul Wild Mage - Mystra, Talos
Diffan	Posted - 05 Apr 2021 : 17:53:53 quote: Originally posted by Wooly Rupert quote: Originally posted by Diffan The prestige class, when giving it another look, isn't evil per-se I'll grant you that. It's really their connection to EV that does. The description above just lists that they serve the Elven Pantheon, gravitating towards Shevarash - elven god of Vengeance. Certainly you can play a CG or NG Justice of Weald and Woe as there's no Alignment played into the class. Heck, it's not even geard towards Elves. I'm more than a little convinced the PrC was written independently of the book, and that the Eldreth Veluuthra connection was added just to make it thematically appropriate for the book. I think the Thayan Gladiator, from the same book, could be readily disconnected from Thay. You need a mage to soup up the gladiator, but I think any place with regular gladiator matches would have at least one wizard or two capable of such magics. Agreed. A lot of the mechanical stuff thrown into both Eberron and Faer�n books felt like their placement was done solely to hit Paget markers and as an incentive to buy books purely for those reasons. 4e Operated in very similar fashion. Swordmages and Genasi apparently were Forgotten Realms things...who knew?
Wooly Rupert	Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 18:58:29 quote: Originally posted by Diffan The prestige class, when giving it another look, isn't evil per-se I'll grant you that. It's really their connection to EV that does. The description above just lists that they serve the Elven Pantheon, gravitating towards Shevarash - elven god of Vengeance. Certainly you can play a CG or NG Justice of Weald and Woe as there's no Alignment played into the class. Heck, it's not even geard towards Elves. I'm more than a little convinced the PrC was written independently of the book, and that the Eldreth Veluuthra connection was added just to make it thematically appropriate for the book. I think the Thayan Gladiator, from the same book, could be readily disconnected from Thay. You need a mage to soup up the gladiator, but I think any place with regular gladiator matches would have at least one wizard or two capable of such magics.
Diffan	Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 14:46:25 quote: Originally posted by LordofBones The ocular adept specifically mentions the Great Mother as the class's patron deity. Given that the Great Mother is completely insane, Gzemnid might be a better patron. You're correct, I made the change above. quote: Originally posted by LordofBones Also, the original ruby Knight vindicator served Wee Jas. I don't think simply changing the name works in this case, better patrons would be Mystra and Kelemvor, Myrkul and Velsharoon, as there is no specific deity of death and magic. Velsharoon and Mystra supply the magic (and death, Wee Jas allows the lawful creation of undead), Myrkul and Kelemvor death. After lawful Mystra and Myrkul bit it, Kelemvor and Velsharoon took them up, with a few still worshipping good Mystra and Myrkul. I really gave this some thought, and the Prestige Class really has nothing to do with what Wee Jas does, as mentioned in the Tome of Battle. None of the Prestige Class features, save possibly the ability to be more stealthy, applies to her concepts or portfolios. What I felt it does do, is lend credence to tactics with stealth being a significant strategic boots on any battlefield. Using turning to eek out more of your divine spells - again felt like a very tactical option. Adding both divine spells and Martial Maneuvers feels more like something a combat-intensive deity would employ more than a goddess of death and magic. quote: Originally posted by LordofBones From complete divine, divine oracles fit Savras really well. Dread witches primarily gravitate to Bane. Nightmare spinners prefer Bane and Loviatar. Pale masters and true necromancers are present among the faithful of Kiaransalee and Velsharoon. Master specialists tend to gravitate towards deities who best represent their respective schools (Savras for Divination, Bane, Sune or Sharess for Enchantment, Velsharoon for Necromancy, Azuth or Talos for Evocation, and so on). I hadn't added a bunch of those in, but will do so now. Thanks!!
Diffan	Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 14:33:57 quote: Originally posted by Wooly Rupert quote: Originally posted by Diffan quote: Originally posted by Wooly Rupert The Justice of Weald and Woe class was written as being an Eldreth Veluuthra thing... But that always bugged me. Aside from the description, there's nothing that particularly ties it to that group. I think it could be used for any dedicated defender of elven homelands, not just the EV. I dunno, they're pretty vile and evil. Would Corellon condone such acts of aggression towards good, honest people? Maybe Shevarash because his followeres are Chaotic Good, Neutral, or Evil. Aside from their connection to the EV, what is vile and evil about the class? They're sneaky, they can make good shots, and they can use poison. Poison doesn't have to be fatal, and nothing about the class is tied to an alignment. This skillset could easily be used against anyone harming the woods or elves -- nothing in the class itself says they can only target certain races, and none of the abilities are tied to strictly evil actions. And honestly, the class really isn't even tied to elves -- not mechanically. This would be a great class for an army scout of any race. Got an orc horde building up, menacing your borders? Send in a couple of these guys to snipe/harass the warlord and the leading shamans, and that horde is going to dissolve. Got some pesky Zhents threatening your homeland in the Dales? Put some debilitating but not fatal poison on a couple arrows, pop one into the commanding officer's backside and another into the mage standing next to the officer, and at the very least you've bought your people a few more days to prepare their defenses. The prestige class, when giving it another look, isn't evil per-se I'll grant you that. It's really their connection to EV that does. The description above just lists that they serve the Elven Pantheon, gravitating towards Shevarash - elven god of Vengeance. Certainly you can play a CG or NG Justice of Weald and Woe as there's no Alignment played into the class. Heck, it's not even geard towards Elves.
Wooly Rupert	Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 02:38:57 quote: Originally posted by Diffan quote: Originally posted by Wooly Rupert The Justice of Weald and Woe class was written as being an Eldreth Veluuthra thing... But that always bugged me. Aside from the description, there's nothing that particularly ties it to that group. I think it could be used for any dedicated defender of elven homelands, not just the EV. I dunno, they're pretty vile and evil. Would Corellon condone such acts of aggression towards good, honest people? Maybe Shevarash because his followeres are Chaotic Good, Neutral, or Evil. Aside from their connection to the EV, what is vile and evil about the class? They're sneaky, they can make good shots, and they can use poison. Poison doesn't have to be fatal, and nothing about the class is tied to an alignment. This skillset could easily be used against anyone harming the woods or elves -- nothing in the class itself says they can only target certain races, and none of the abilities are tied to strictly evil actions. And honestly, the class really isn't even tied to elves -- not mechanically. This would be a great class for an army scout of any race. Got an orc horde building up, menacing your borders? Send in a couple of these guys to snipe/harass the warlord and the leading shamans, and that horde is going to dissolve. Got some pesky Zhents threatening your homeland in the Dales? Put some debilitating but not fatal poison on a couple arrows, pop one into the commanding officer's backside and another into the mage standing next to the officer, and at the very least you've bought your people a few more days to prepare their defenses.
LordofBones	Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 01:36:49 The ocular adept specifically mentions the Great Mother as the class's patron deity. Given that the Great Mother is completely insane, Gzemnid might be a better patron. Also, the original ruby Knight vindicator served Wee Jas. I don't think simply changing the name works in this case, better patrons would be Mystra and Kelemvor, Myrkul and Velsharoon, as there is no specific deity of death and magic. Velsharoon and Mystra supply the magic (and death, Wee Jas allows the lawful creation of undead), Myrkul and Kelemvor death. After lawful Mystra and Myrkul bit it, Kelemvor and Velsharoon took them up, with a few still worshipping good Mystra and Myrkul. From complete divine, divine oracles fit Savras really well. Dread witches primarily gravitate to Bane. Nightmare spinners prefer Bane and Loviatar. Pale masters and true necromancers are present among the faithful of Kiaransalee and Velsharoon. Master specialists tend to gravitate towards deities who best represent their respective schools (Savras for Divination, Bane, Sune or Sharess for Enchantment, Velsharoon for Necromancy, Azuth or Talos for Evocation, and so on).
Diffan	Posted - 02 Apr 2021 : 22:10:28 quote: Originally posted by Wooly Rupert The Justice of Weald and Woe class was written as being an Eldreth Veluuthra thing... But that always bugged me. Aside from the description, there's nothing that particularly ties it to that group. I think it could be used for any dedicated defender of elven homelands, not just the EV. I dunno, they're pretty vile and evil. Would Corellon condone such acts of aggression towards good, honest people? Maybe Shevarash because his followeres are Chaotic Good, Neutral, or Evil.
Wooly Rupert	Posted - 02 Apr 2021 : 21:14:58 The Justice of Weald and Woe class was written as being an Eldreth Veluuthra thing... But that always bugged me. Aside from the description, there's nothing that particularly ties it to that group. I think it could be used for any dedicated defender of elven homelands, not just the EV.
Diffan	Posted - 02 Apr 2021 : 17:21:33 Thank you for the clairifications. I always get Gargauth and Grumbar names mixed up. Because some of these allow for a lot of alignments and options, I added in the deities they're most likely to gravitate towards. Am I missing any? I did forget Yathrinshee, so I'll add them in.
LordofBones	Posted - 02 Apr 2021 : 16:22:06 Wearers of Purple generally gravitate to Bane, Velsharoon, Gargauth or Falazure in his Null aspect. Talos is the obvious patron for stormcasters, given that every ability they get is basically "PAPA TALOS, LOOK HOW COOL WE ARE! JUST LIKE YOU!" The Long Death don't venerate Shar. The order's patrons are Velsharoon, Kiaransalee and Loviatar, though the realmshelps website specifically mentions Velsharoon. Entropomancers are all about nihilism, so Shar or Jergal. Ravagers should worship Gargauth or Tempus.

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