| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Icelander |
Posted - 19 Aug 2018 : 22:04:49
I'm looking for information available on the most powerful priests and other divine casters among the Cult of the Dragon in Mirtul of 1373 DR.
I know that Sammaster brought Algashon Naithaire back as a Banelich 'before his destruction' at the end of 1373 DR, but exactly at what point in the year was Algashon active again?
And, as he doesn't seem to have played any visible part in what happened in Impiltur, Damara and in the frozen elf citadel where the mythal was destroyed, where was he from his return to the Realms and the end of 1373 DR?
There's no evidence of Algashon Nathaire in Unther or Threskel either during the Rage, though I suppose he might have visited briefly. At any rate, he seems not to have been adjudicating personally between the Mourktar cell of the Cult of the Dragon, the Great Bone Wyrm, the Black Lord's Cloak and the mainstream faction of the Cult, since the new structure of power marginalises the Mourktar cell.
As First Interpreter, Algashon forms a ruling triumvirate with the two powerful dracoliches, the Creeping Doom and the Sibilant Shade, but the Great Bone Wyrm is conspiciously absent from the new power structure after the destruction of the First Speaker.
What would be other powerful priests of the Cult of the Dragon, who might not have been personally involved in Sammaster's war in Damara or in the siege of the Monastery of the Yellow Rose?
I'm asking because in my campaign, the Cult is trying to convince Iyrarauth, the Wyrm of the Peaks, to embrace dracolichdom. Iyrauroth was apparently receptive, enough so that he joined a flight of dragons and dracoliches in attacking the Iron Dragon Mountain and the Master's Library with the Cult of the Dragon.
The attack was disastrous and Iyrauroth suffered near fatal wounds, the worst of the being the total destruction of both eyes, as arrows that exploded with great magical force hit him in both eye sockets. The damage to the eyes and optic nerves is such that only the priestly magic equivalent to Regeneration (in D&D, a 7th level divine spell, requiring a clerical caster level of 13th+) or an arcane Wish could grant him his eyes back.
Of course, if Iyrauroth became a dracolich, he wouldn't need eyes to see, but the great wyrm is hardly content to meekly submit to such magic as a powerless petitioner, when he could be giving the Cult total control over him by so doing. So, as an earnest of good faith and show of devotion to him as one of the future rulers of Faerun, Iyrauroth is demanding that the Cult cure his grievous injuries before he'll consider their proposal of lichdom.
On instinct and theough a mystical connection to his hoard, the blind Wyrm of the Peaks managed to fly to his lair in Mount Grimmerfang, where he now rants and roars at the terrified envoys of the First Speaker who were tasked to re-establish contact after the necromancer who led the failed attack on Iron Dragon Mountain prudently chose to disappear in the wake of that disaster.
My question is therefore, who among the Cult of the Dragon leadership and senior spellcasters is even capable of doing what Iyrauroth demands? And who among these powerful Wearers of Purple and/or Keepers of the Secret Hoard is not busy doing other things, as this happens at the exact same time as the great battles of Sammaster's faux 'Zhengyi the Lich-King' army in Damara and the siege of the Monastery of the Yellow Rose (which, I'll admit, is pretty nearby)?
Also, side question, should the mission of re-establishing contact with Iyrauroth be assigned to one of the Vast cells, to the Wyrmsmoke cell (who knows how Dalgar, 'Blood of Iyrauroth' may feel about his progenitor), to a Damaran or Impilturan cell or to someone high enough in the Cult hierarchy as to be able to call on the resources of any cell as needed?
And if the last, who or what might such a one be, at this time of upheaval and great deeds for the Cult? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Icelander |
Posted - 03 Sep 2018 : 09:16:50
quote:
Originally posted by Fineva
Sammaster set protections at the Great Glacier?
Any further data, Icelanders?
I'd love a few remaining protections to be traps for the unwary
From the last novel in the Year of Rogue Dragons, it appeared that the ancient elven citadel was protected by various summoned dragons and sundry magics that Sammaster had either layered atop of old elven magics or twisted from their original purpose to serve his. |
| Fineva |
Posted - 03 Sep 2018 : 00:43:48
Sammaster set protections at the Great Glacier?
Any further data, Icelanders?
I'd love a few remaining protections to be traps for the unwary |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 27 Aug 2018 : 14:39:25
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmm, so one thing that does pop in my mind is "where was this dwarven hall".... it occurs to me that if the dwarves were some of the first inhabitants of what becomes the Cliffside City of Peleverai after the Great Rift collapsed and the landrise is created...
Yes, in the old times humans often had settlements built over abandoned dwarven structures - Impil's Tor, Ravensgate and so on.
There were Bhaerynden and then Shanatars, so dwarves probably lived all over the area. But then, so it was in many other places.
More to the point, this story says "Astaroth" abandoned the area before the trouble started, rather than sticking there.
Also, we still don't know whether Landrise appeared before or after the Great Rift.
On the question of the Landrise and Great Rift, I prefer the more simpler answer of "at the same time". One of the ideas that I've proposed is that the Great Rift was caused by an impact and that the Landrise was essentially caused by the land cracking and lifting up on one side. I've furthermore proposed that the river that traverses underground and exits out of the side of the landrise (River Shaar) was caused by this object impacting and creating a tunnel downward from the great rift that eventually opened wide enough to make a river over centuries, and that this opens up in a waterfall (or series of waterfalls exiting at points along the "Peleverai Canyon") at the cliffside city of Peleverai.
Furthermore, this object may have something to do with the Pit of Maleficence.
Hmmm, since it would be the humans that rename the city to Peleverai, it would seem a decent idea to make a name for the dwarven city that "becomes" Peleverai later on. If the source of the city was due to an underground river caused by a massive impact, what do you think of this
Dunlurar Burakrinol
From the dwarven words
Dunlur - underground river
Ar - to cut, slash, or lay open
Burakrin - way through, passage
ol - magic
Its kind of long... part of me also wants to put the name Shaar or Shaer in it somehow. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 27 Aug 2018 : 08:09:15
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
That kind of makes sense, but I know that in my head the alternative view held by the Masked Mage was the prevalent one. I always thought that the simple issue of time was such that it couldn't be "used for everyone" and similarly, just how many PCs lost a limb anyway? Few in my book. Anyway, I guess official is official but I don't see how the alternative view mucks up a campaign unless that game is focused on the chopping off of limbs!
-- George Krashos
Well, I play a Realms campaign using GURPS and one of the differences is less abstract combat. If an axe blow can split the skull of an ogre, it will take off a merely human hand. So, in GURPS, crippling injuries, permanent trauma and lost limbs are a standard part of combat, not just something that can only be caused by specific magical effects like the Sword of Sharpness.
Granted, PCs mostly seek to use good armour, protective items and layered defences to avoid taking either crippling or life-threatening injuries. But NPC adventurers often retire when they lose a limb, experience a bad break to a joint that doesn't heal properly or otherwise suffer crippling injury from their adventuring lifestyle.
Plenty of NPC adventurers don't have the attentions of a deity or the grace and favour of a 13th level priest. So they suffer their career-ending injury and there isn't much they can do about it. By the presence of one-armed or one-legged adventurers in the Realms, we know that crippling injuries aren't something to brush off. Certainly, if one Ring of Regeneration could cure all the crippling in Waterdeep over the course of an adventuring party over-wintering there, completely free for the owner, I would expect permanent crippling to be unknown by anyone able to afford staying in an inn. So we know that's not how the Realms work already.
It would play havoc with my suspension of disbelief if the PCs were the first to discover that with a Ring of Regeneration, they could fix any career ending injury without spending magical energy, without the favour of a god, without any medical knowledge or diagnosis, just making people wear a ring for a couple of hours.
In case any scribes missed it, though, the official 3e rules made explicit what had previously required Sage Advice from Dragon or a GM making a call about how Regeneration metaphysics worked in his campaign. So, pretty much no matter what edition of D&D rules you might be using, Rings of Regeneration require you to have been wearing them when you suffered a crippling injury for the ring to work in fixing it.
I seem to remember this property of regeneration rings appearing in Realms fiction, too, but I don't know if that was a vignette in Dragon, a short story or a novel. In any case, to me, the fact that Rings of Regeneration are limited in this way are an integral aspect of Realmslore, without which it would be difficult to explain how any old soldiers in the Realms can limp, wear eye-patches or retire due to back injury.
These things are fixable, but they require the personal intervention of one of the most powerful servants of the gods, i.e. a priest of at least CL 13th (that is, someone powerful enough to be a high priest somewhere). And high priests tend not to use their most powerful spells for the benefit of anyone not in high favour with the god and somehow connected to the divine plan for furtherance of their portfolios.
Just having enough money to buy a Ring of Regeneration doesn't allow a character to take on a career where he earns back the value of the Ring in short order by healing every modestly successful former adventurer in Faerun, who suffered some kind of crippling injury in their career, and then just continues fixing people in return for their indentured service.
That would be a classic setting-breaking game design error, where a spell or magical item is given loosely defined powers that aren't necessarily game-breaking in a typical dungeon use, but change the setting out of all recognition if any character is even moderately intelligent and logical. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 27 Aug 2018 : 03:34:38
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
DoF also says that Algashon "has begun to hear the whispers of Gargauth once more", but in the history of the Cult, it was the enemies of Algashon and his attempts to bring the Cult under the influence of Bane who heard the whispers of Gargauth.
Algashon was slain fighting Tuelhelva Drakewings and other cultists influenced by Gargauth and opposed to the Cult of the Dragon becoming a Banite order, but I haven't yet found a source that indicates that Algashon Nathaire ever wavered from the sincere worship of Bane in his life.
I actually proposed a while back that algashon was a member of the knights of the shield and used his position as banites and cultist to get onto the shield council (I forget how I made the links, they are in an old thread on here somewhere).
THO sort of confirmed the link with a nod and a wink. It means that algashon had access to the shield [..]
So when it says algashon heard gargauth once more it it probably accurate in that he has heard the whispering of gargauth before.
The simplest interpretation is that Gargauth saw Algashon as a valuable asset and tried to convert. But the Banite refused, he would work with Gargauth only as much as it's strategically useful and resist encroachments on his domain. Since some others are already subverted by Gargauth, it escalates to a schism.
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
They presumably flew. On dragonback.
Or used disguises and/or teleports. Cult of the Dragon has a lot of spellcasters, is a secret organization, they move around without attracting undesirable attention almost all the time.
They probably prepare adequate evacuation plans, too.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmm, so one thing that does pop in my mind is "where was this dwarven hall".... it occurs to me that if the dwarves were some of the first inhabitants of what becomes the Cliffside City of Peleverai after the Great Rift collapsed and the landrise is created...
Yes, in the old times humans often had settlements built over abandoned dwarven structures - Impil's Tor, Ravensgate and so on.
There were Bhaerynden and then Shanatars, so dwarves probably lived all over the area. But then, so it was in many other places.
More to the point, this story says "Astaroth" abandoned the area before the trouble started, rather than sticking there.
Also, we still don't know whether Landrise appeared before or after the Great Rift.
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 27 Aug 2018 : 02:41:31
That kind of makes sense, but I know that in my head the alternative view held by the Masked Mage was the prevalent one. I always thought that the simple issue of time was such that it couldn't be "used for everyone" and similarly, just how many PCs lost a limb anyway? Few in my book. Anyway, I guess official is official but I don't see how the alternative view mucks up a campaign unless that game is focused on the chopping off of limbs!
-- George Krashos |
| Icelander |
Posted - 26 Aug 2018 : 23:14:53
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I don't know where you get that idea about a ring of regeneration and 2nd edition.
The standard ring of regeneration restores one point of damage per turn (and will eventually replace lost limbs or organs). It will bring its wearer back from death. (If death was caused by poison, however, a saving throw must be successfully rolled or the wearer dies again from the poison still in his system.) Only total destruction of all living tissue by fire or acid or similar means will prevent regeneration. Of course, the ring must be worn, and its removal stops the regeneration processes.
No mention was ever made of having to have the ring on while injured to regenerate...
It was always the official rules position, albeit not spelled out clearly in the rules until either the end of 2e or start of 3e. See 'Sage Advice' in Dragon #39 p. 31 for the rule that Rings of Regeneration won't regenerate limbs lost before putting the ring on. There were multiple such replies in Sage Advice over the 2e era when I was a regular reader, but I'm too lazy to track them all down.
The point is, Rings of Regeneration were never intended to be free healing and fixed crippling injuries for everyone near the owner. Otherwise, crippling wouldn't even exist in D&D campaign worlds. So this interpretation was always assumed, but as the first magic item descriptions were short and the designers didn't have the extra couple of decades of experience with rules lawyers, it didn't find its way into the DMG at first. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 26 Aug 2018 : 22:33:09
I don't know where you get that idea about a ring of regeneration and 2nd edition.
The standard ring of regeneration restores one point of damage per turn (and will eventually replace lost limbs or organs). It will bring its wearer back from death. (If death was caused by poison, however, a saving throw must be successfully rolled or the wearer dies again from the poison still in his system.) Only total destruction of all living tissue by fire or acid or similar means will prevent regeneration. Of course, the ring must be worn, and its removal stops the regeneration processes.
No mention was ever made of having to have the ring on while injured to regenerate... |
| Icelander |
Posted - 26 Aug 2018 : 18:48:02
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
That's why you need to always have a magic mouth handy!
Not much of an improvement, when you're effectively imprisoned in the blind wyrm's lair by his servitors and guards, ostensibly as honoured 'guests' while Iyrauroth and the Cult of the Dragon work out their 'partnership', but really because you know the way into his lair from having come there with the necrmancer Estrella Dreamheart and it's an open question if he'll allow anyone to live with that knowledge.
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Actually I don't think replacing the eyes makes him incur possession problems, and he is already chaotic evil but of course your campaign may vary.
By reading the rulebook, you can know that for a fact. But in the Realms, it isn't like simplistic D&D game effects written up in official sourcebooks are the only possible effects of magical rituals.
What guarantee has Iyrauroth that grafting infernal eyes to his empty sockets works the way the Followers of the Scaly way say it works and isn't simply a way to control him through some fiendish agency?
Also, it's not as if everyone whose Alignment is listed as Chaotic Evil will be aware of that and consider all inhabitants of the Abyss their ideological brethren. Even if the rule effect of demonic grafts are to shift Alignment to Chaotic Evil, that doesn't mean that someone already CE wouldn't perceive the effect as whispers of madness and fury trying to influence his actions.
In game terms, the character might still be CE, but the demonic influence could still be motivating different actions than he'd decide on his own. Not all CE characters are the same.
Edit: Basically, the PCs managed to blind Iyrauroth and are heading to his lair, while he's weak, for the traditional heroic 'slaying of wyrm and becoming vulgarly rich from his hoard, the wealth of the dwarven kingdom that was there before him and the wealth of the orcish kingdom that was there before it'. Okay, so maybe the circumstances aren't all that traditional.
Tracking down dwarves and orcs who could find Hollow Mountain and secret ways that led to it without fighting through every orc tribe in the Vast and other threats in the Earthspurs, that took some doing. Convincing them to join forces, with each side receiving their own ancient ancestral heirlooms and regalia once the dragon is slain, well, that took prophecy, signs and portents. There is a significant chance that one PC is acting the part of some weird Mirror Universe Gandalf type to a party of orcish adventurers whose numbers include the future King of Vastar restored.
Anyway, long story short, instead of following the blinded Wyrm of the Peaks immediately, the PCs are paying their house call some two and a half months later. So, the survivors of the group of lesser Followers of the Scaly Way who had been Estrella Dreamheart's entourage for her embassy to Iyrauroth, but were left behind when she and the wyrm attacked the Master's Library, have had a long time to reach out for help.
Complicated, of course, by the fact that Iyrauroth doesn't want to advertise his weakness, doesn't want anyone to know the way to his lair and doesn't want to release these Cultists, who know both, to go a anywhere. Iyrauroth just wants one priest of the Cult of the Dragon to arrive and heal his cursed eyes!
So, the magelings, merchants-venturers and mercenaries of the Cult who are Iyrauroth's 'guests' have been reduced to writing coded, cryptic missives delivered by magical means (or enspelled birds) to various priests they might know in the Cult who are nearby, trustworthy and powerful enough. Or to other Keepers of the Secret Hoard or Wearers of Purple who might know such a priest.
I'm trying to decide if anyone has replied by now. Or might even have gotten there by now, though that is unlikely. The negotiations would be circumspect, torturous and slow, considering the paranoia and distrust on all sides. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 21:40:05
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Back in 2e, Rings of Regenerations also explicitly didn't help with wounds that weren't incurred while the wearer wore the ring. And that's certainly how such rings work in my Realms.
Hrm, true.
Well another idea (that still requires a decently high level spellcaster but it's viable for both arcane and divine ones), that would be a bit of sideways circumventing the problem, is Iyrauroth getting new eyes in the form of the fiendish grafts of Fiends Folio (or whatever variation you want to devise).
In this case the problem would be in summoning a suitable fiend but that would open up a bit the number of Cult of the Dragon members/associates that can do it.
EDIT: and the fact that this would require the Cult undertaking a pact with a fiend to accomplish would turn into a strong bargaining chip in their talks with Iyrauroth
I agree, my dear fellow Follower of the Scaly Way.
Only, eh, can you perhaps inform the 200' long, blind, furious great wyrm, racked with agony and incoherent with rage, that instead of, well, curing his injuries, we plan to improve him. By grafting infernal, demonic eyeballs into his swollen, pus-filled, enflamed eye sockets and hope the fiend and him can get along.
I'll just wait here for his answer. Yes, here, right where there is a long drop down this waterfall into the hidden valley, just sort of hang around as I ready my components for flying...
That's why you need to always have a magic mouth handy!
Actually I don't think replacing the eyes makes him incur possession problems, and he is already chaotic evil but of course your campaign may vary. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 20:37:19
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Back in 2e, Rings of Regenerations also explicitly didn't help with wounds that weren't incurred while the wearer wore the ring. And that's certainly how such rings work in my Realms.
Hrm, true.
Well another idea (that still requires a decently high level spellcaster but it's viable for both arcane and divine ones), that would be a bit of sideways circumventing the problem, is Iyrauroth getting new eyes in the form of the fiendish grafts of Fiends Folio (or whatever variation you want to devise).
In this case the problem would be in summoning a suitable fiend but that would open up a bit the number of Cult of the Dragon members/associates that can do it.
EDIT: and the fact that this would require the Cult undertaking a pact with a fiend to accomplish would turn into a strong bargaining chip in their talks with Iyrauroth
I agree, my dear fellow Follower of the Scaly Way.
Only, eh, can you perhaps inform the 200' long, blind, furious great wyrm, racked with agony and incoherent with rage, that instead of, well, curing his injuries, we plan to improve him. By grafting infernal, demonic eyeballs into his swollen, pus-filled, enflamed eye sockets and hope the fiend and him can get along.
I'll just wait here for his answer. Yes, here, right where there is a long drop down this waterfall into the hidden valley, just sort of hang around as I ready my components for flying... |
| Demzer |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 22:42:56
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Back in 2e, Rings of Regenerations also explicitly didn't help with wounds that weren't incurred while the wearer wore the ring. And that's certainly how such rings work in my Realms.
Hrm, true.
Well another idea (that still requires a decently high level spellcaster but it's viable for both arcane and divine ones), that would be a bit of sideways circumventing the problem, is Iyrauroth getting new eyes in the form of the fiendish grafts of Fiends Folio (or whatever variation you want to devise).
In this case the problem would be in summoning a suitable fiend but that would open up a bit the number of Cult of the Dragon members/associates that can do it.
EDIT: and the fact that this would require the Cult undertaking a pact with a fiend to accomplish would turn into a strong bargaining chip in their talks with Iyrauroth |
| Icelander |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 18:40:31
Back in 2e, Rings of Regenerations also explicitly didn't help with wounds that weren't incurred while the wearer wore the ring. And that's certainly how such rings work in my Realms. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 18:23:13
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
"The Lord of the Hidden Layer" is Eltab, not Gargauth
Yeah, that's what I get for trying to append lower planar titles from memory.
I meant to say 'the Hidden Lord'.
I've fixed it now.
Oh, I'm sure Gargauth wouldn't mind, he has a thing for replacing other powerful fiends. Eltab on the other hand is a raging bull that needs to vent 1500+ years of frustrations.
More on topic, otherwise my contribution is meaningless, during 2E there was an overabundance of rings of regeneration (at least in the AD&D 2E supplements I'm going through at the moment, every other NPC of note has one) and several dragons are able to use magic items meant for humans in some way or another.
So maybe an easier way for the Cult to get Iyrauroth fixed is to get one of these rings and jam it into one of his teeths or one of the smallest horns protruding from his head. It would probably take much more time to regenerate a dragon's eyes than it takes for a human's limbs but I think it's doable. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 14:00:17
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
reread what I posted above about Abbathor and the "ghost dragon" in 1001 DR... the exact same year that Tuelhalva Drakewings is sent down to Peleverai to find some non-existent "undead dragon". Basically, I'm seeing possibly some kind of misinformation network that provides enough information to show as true, but ends up with Tuelhalva getting sent somewhere that Gargauth can latch onto him.... and all of this revolving all about dragons.... and undead ones at that.
Yeah, I understand that, and for the record, agree that inserting false rumours into true information sounds plausible.
I just don't understand why you would bring this up in a scroll about what powerful priests might be found in the Cult of the Dragon in 1373 DR instead of one of the many scrolls that exist about the lore and history of Gargauth.
Oh, I tend to go where a conversation takes me all the time. Algashon takes me to Tuelhalva. Tuelhalva takes me to Gargauth. Plus, you mentioned Algashon having an involvement with Gargauth from DoF. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 13:59:40
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
reread what I posted above about Abbathor and the "ghost dragon" in 1001 DR... the exact same year that Tuelhalva Drakewings is sent down to Peleverai to find some non-existent "undead dragon". Basically, I'm seeing possibly some kind of misinformation network that provides enough information to show as true, but ends up with Tuelhalva getting sent somewhere that Gargauth can latch onto him.... and all of this revolving all about dragons.... and undead ones at that.
Yeah, I understand that, and for the record, agree that inserting false rumours into true information sounds plausible.
I just don't understand why you would bring this up in a scroll about what powerful priests might be found in the Cult of the Dragon in 1373 DR instead of one of the many scrolls that exist about the lore and history of Gargauth.
Oh, I tend to go where a conversation takes me all the time. Algashon takes me to Tuelhalva. Tuelhalva takes me to Gargauth. Plus, you mentioned Algashon having an involvement with Gargauth from DoF. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 08:44:37
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
"The Lord of the Hidden Layer" is Eltab, not Gargauth
Yeah, that's what I get for trying to append lower planar titles from memory.
I meant to say 'the Hidden Lord'.
I've fixed it now. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 08:27:00
"The Lord of the Hidden Layer" is Eltab, not Gargauth |
| Icelander |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 05:23:52
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Tchazzar's a demipower? I thought he was a quasipower; he's a great wyrm dragon ascendant 12.
In his current incarnation, which was brought back to life by Tiamat in 1373 DR, he's indeed something like a quasipower. In LEoF, he's listed as an one of the dead powers, which implies that at some point before Tiamat ate him, he reached at least demipower status. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 05:17:32
Tchazzar's a demipower? I thought he was a quasipower; he's a great wyrm dragon ascendant 12. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 03:10:21
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
reread what I posted above about Abbathor and the "ghost dragon" in 1001 DR... the exact same year that Tuelhalva Drakewings is sent down to Peleverai to find some non-existent "undead dragon". Basically, I'm seeing possibly some kind of misinformation network that provides enough information to show as true, but ends up with Tuelhalva getting sent somewhere that Gargauth can latch onto him.... and all of this revolving all about dragons.... and undead ones at that.
Yeah, I understand that, and for the record, agree that inserting false rumours into true information sounds plausible.
I just don't understand why you would bring this up in a scroll about what powerful priests might be found in the Cult of the Dragon in 1373 DR instead of one of the many scrolls that exist about the lore and history of Gargauth. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 03:01:01
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
No, I meant the part where you said that Algashon lived and died while Gargauth was trapped in a pit and probably never knew anything about him nor heard the name 'Gargauth'
Algashon clearly didn't die until he came to Peleveran. He didn't come to Peleveran until Gargauth was freed and flew to the north whispering lies "to the leadership of the Cult of the Dragon".
As noted above, during the less than thirty days that Algashon and Gargauth have both been alive and on Toril at the same time, there is no reason to assume that Algashon ever heard his name.
It's unlikely in the extreme that the Lord of the Hidden Layer, as a newly freed baatezu lord loose on Toril for the first time in a long time, immediately started telling people the truth of his name and nature. He manipulated the upper leadership of the Cult of the Dragon at the start of the 11th century DR and he made contacts with Banites in Sembia at a similar time, but to the Banites, he pretended to be a 'wild baatezu' named 'Gargoth' and I imagine that when he spread disinformation to the Cult, he used many different guises, names and other deception.
Basically, the Lord of the Hidden Layer had zero reason to tell anyone his true name or reveal his true nature, back in 1018 DR, while Algashon was alive. At that time, he wasn't a deity with worshippers, he was an exiled devil lord.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
As to whether he was or wasn't a divine power upon being freed, in the other thread I showed that him being stripped of his divinity may have been what freed him, and perhaps later he gathered the divinity of someone/something else. This may have aided the ascension of Tchazzar. It could have also have been some kind of machination of Tiamat, since she's also a lord of hell.
Tchazzar became a demipower and then Tiamat devoured him and worship of those in Tchazzar's cult was routed to Tiamat. Then Tchazzar returned to Faerun in the waning days of 1373 DR, as a servant of Tiamat. That sounds a lot like Tiamat sponsored his ascension. When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I'll also note in all of this convoluted stuff involving Abbathor, possibly Astilabor, etc.... what was Gargauth noted as? A treasurer in hell (see dungeon 148 entry for astaroth).... and he's also related to a story of Astaroth who was in a dwarven citadel turning everything he touched into gold.
Sure, I guess the history of Gargauth as an outcast lord of hell might have some convoluted connection to Abbathor, the dwarven god of Greed, but I'm really at a loss to imagine how Gargauth's possible connections with Abbathor have anything to do with the subject of this thread and the Cult of the Dragon.
reread what I posted above about Abbathor and the "ghost dragon" in 1001 DR... the exact same year that Tuelhalva Drakewings is sent down to Peleverai to find some non-existent "undead dragon". Basically, I'm seeing possibly some kind of misinformation network that provides enough information to show as true, but ends up with Tuelhalva getting sent somewhere that Gargauth can latch onto him.... and all of this revolving all about dragons.... and undead ones at that. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 02:50:47
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmmm, and regarding your statements of Gargauth not being a divinity until later.... could it be that the 17 year long ritual that freed Gargauth from the pit actually did so by STRIPPING him of his divinity? Maybe it was in fact this divinity that Tchazzar somehow gathered to enable his own rise? Maybe he was even working in cahoots with Tiamat to steal Gargauth's divinity?
Uh, why would you think that Gargauth had ever been divine before Powers and Pantheons states that he 'became a demipower in his own right'?
What is there about Gargauth that makes you feel that he had ever had divine power before he attained it in the 11th century?
Am I missing a source somewhere?
I'm not so much stuck on him being "divine" as I am that maybe he was some kind of "power source". This might have been in the form of a vestige. It may have been in the form of a power able to give warlock pacts. However, it could have also been divinity similar to how demons and devils can have cults.
There's also some oddities that surround Gargauth, Gargoth, and Astaroth (Hmmmm... Astaroth, a being that had a Midas' type touch ... Astilabor, dragon god of greed). It could even include the dwarven god Abbathor, since all of these beings are hoarders or keepers of money, etc.... Basically, Eric Boyd's adventure "Wells of Darkness" documents that Astaroth is "trapped in the Wells of Darkness". It kind of makes me feel like Astaroth and Gargauth were somehow "split", and Astaroth was left trapped. Given that Gargauth was trapped in the Pit of Maleficence and Astaroth is trapped in the Well of Darkness, I'd bet both are related to the place where Vestiges go. I'm not exactly sure how to spin it, but for fun's sake, let's look at the two sets of lore.
From Powers and Pantheons entry for Gargauth
Few beings in the Realms know of Gargauth's existence, but those who do dare not speak his name for fear that he may come for a visit. However, Gargauth's name (or one of his aliases) appears in a few cautionary tales of overweening pride, insatiable greed, or overwhelming lust for power among every race of the Realms. For example, the dwarves tell a tale of entitled "The Legacy of Astaroth." In that legend, a dwarf minstrel by the name of Astaroth arrived one day at the gates of a dwarven hall built above a rich vein of iron. He began to perform a variety of of showman's tricks and thoroughly enchanted the dour dwarves. The normally suspicious dwarves invited him in for the evening meal, which Astaroth graciously accepted. As their guests ate, the dwarf king and his retainers noticed that every piece of metal Astaroth came into contact with (his plate, utensils, a door knob, etc..) turned to gold. However, Astaroth seemed completely unaware of this effect. After the meal the dwarf king slyly invited Astaroth on a tour of the subterranean city. The dashing minstrel was encouraged to pick up and examine every piece of metal the dwarves could find, even touching the veins of iron not yet mined from the earth. When the minstrel finally left, the dwarves were incredibly rich - so much so, the king promptly renamed the city the Hall of Pure Gold. Within 24 hours of Astaroth's departure, a horde of orcs and giants attacked the dwarven hold. The dwarves who had held their relatively poor hold for centuries with steel found their armor, their weapons, and their defensive structures had all been transformed into very pure, soft gold. The Hall of Pure Gold fell within a fortnight, and the dwarves of that hall were completely eradicated save for one who survived to tell the tale. It is from this tale that the dwarven expression "Gold makes one rich, but steel makes one richer" is derived.
Then there's this from Dungeon 148
Astaroth: This once-powerful tanar'ri prince had a gift for prophecy that didn't warn him about Gargauth, an exiled archdevil who once served Asmodeus as Treasurer of Hell. Gargauth has since acquired the mantle of divinity, but before then, he slew Astaroth in a terrific battle. Astaroth had sealed a bargain with Ahazu to be imprisoned here when he died, (NOTE: here being the Wells of Darkness) but has not yet achieved his promised resurrection. Astaroth acquired the name "Diabolus" for his infiltration of the ranks of Hell. From time to time, Gargauth still masquerades as Astaroth, and he still maintains several cults in the fallen demon lord's name. Although the Abyss continues to try to resurrect the fallen tanar'ri prince, the ever-present hellfire in Astaroth's well ignited by Gargauth continously consumes Astaroth's reforming body
Hmmm, so one thing that does pop in my mind is "where was this dwarven hall".... it occurs to me that if the dwarves were some of the first inhabitants of what becomes the Cliffside City of Peleverai after the Great Rift collapsed and the landrise is created.... I half wonder, is this an old story, and were the dwarves gold dwarves living in Peleverai? Since they all died, this could explain humans coming along later and inhabiting a fabulous and ancient dwarven hall. Why did "Astaroth" want into the city? Did it have something to do with the Pit of Maleficence?
Hmmm, I like this idea. I just may have to rewrite something now. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 01:26:54
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
No, I meant the part where you said that Algashon lived and died while Gargauth was trapped in a pit and probably never knew anything about him nor heard the name 'Gargauth'
Algashon clearly didn't die until he came to Peleveran. He didn't come to Peleveran until Gargauth was freed and flew to the north whispering lies "to the leadership of the Cult of the Dragon".
As noted above, during the less than thirty days that Algashon and Gargauth have both been alive and on Toril at the same time, there is no reason to assume that Algashon ever heard his name.
It's unlikely in the extreme that the Hidden Lord, as a newly freed baatezu lord loose on Toril for the first time in a long time, immediately started telling people the truth of his name and nature. He manipulated the upper leadership of the Cult of the Dragon at the start of the 11th century DR and he made contacts with Banites in Sembia at a similar time, but to the Banites, he pretended to be a 'wild baatezu' named 'Gargoth' and I imagine that when he spread disinformation to the Cult, he used many different guises, names and other deception.
Basically, the Hidden Lord had zero reason to tell anyone his true name or reveal his true nature, back in 1018 DR, while Algashon was alive. At that time, he wasn't a deity with worshippers, he was an exiled devil lord. It's even possible that the name 'Gargauth' was never known or used by anyone in Faerun until at some point well after 1022 DR, as part of the ascension of Gargauth to divinity, as 'Gargoth' may have been the name Gargauth answered to as an archdevil and the later name invented as part of a scheme to become a Faerunian deity.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
As to whether he was or wasn't a divine power upon being freed, in the other thread I showed that him being stripped of his divinity may have been what freed him, and perhaps later he gathered the divinity of someone/something else. This may have aided the ascension of Tchazzar. It could have also have been some kind of machination of Tiamat, since she's also a lord of hell.
Tchazzar became a demipower and then Tiamat devoured him and worship of those in Tchazzar's cult was routed to Tiamat. Then Tchazzar returned to Faerun in the waning days of 1373 DR, as a servant of Tiamat. That sounds a lot like Tiamat sponsored his ascension. When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I'll also note in all of this convoluted stuff involving Abbathor, possibly Astilabor, etc.... what was Gargauth noted as? A treasurer in hell (see dungeon 148 entry for astaroth).... and he's also related to a story of Astaroth who was in a dwarven citadel turning everything he touched into gold.
Sure, I guess the history of Gargauth as an outcast lord of hell might have some convoluted connection to Abbathor, the dwarven god of Greed, but I'm really at a loss to imagine how Gargauth's possible connections with Abbathor have anything to do with the subject of this thread and the Cult of the Dragon. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 01:10:47
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Icelander, this statement isn't true
Algashon died before Gargauth was anything other than baatezu lord. In fact, Algashon lived and died while Gargauth was trapped in a pit and probably never knew anything about him nor heard the name 'Gargauth'. Any whispers of Gargauth that Algashon ever heard before 1373 DR were a devil trying to corrupt a mortal, not a god trying to steal a worshipper from another god.
I state this because of this from Powers and Pantheons which discusses Peleveran and Gargauth
It would take nearly seventeen years for Tuelhalva to gather the resources and personal power to enact the ritual required to free Gargauth from the Dark Pit of Maleficence. There are those who believe that this is because Gargauth himself had been entrapped in the Wells of Darkness himself that this casting was so complex. The truth of this matter is unclear, but what is known is that in 1018 DR, Gargauth was freed from the Dark Pit of Maleficence, and upon becoming free he summoned a horde of hellspawn to serve Tuelhalva in seizing the throne of Peleveran. As Peleveran fell to the armies of baatezu, the great fiend of the pit flew north, whispering lies of Tuelhalva destroying an ancient undead dragon king he had found in the ears of the leadership of the Cult of the Dragon. Within a month of Tuelhalva's coronation, a Rage of Dragons descended on Peleveran, and when it passed not a trace of that nation nor Tuelhalva remained.
What?
Algashon died in 1018 DR.
Gargauth did not became a demipower until after the battle at the Sign of the Silver Harp, which happened sometime between 1022-1121 DR, i.e. during the first century of the existence of the Harpers. And after escaping the pit in 1018 DR, Gargauth was known to Banites in the 11th century as the wild baatezu 'Gargoth', not as a deity or any kind of divine entity.
Basically, before the Harpstars War, the history of Gargauth is the history of a devil lord, not a deity. And I don't know how long Gargauth spent trapped in the pit under Peleverian, but from the sound of things, I wouldn't be surprised if he had been trapped there for centuries, i.e. the entire lifetime of Algashon.
Algashon 'heard the whispers of Gargauth', but he had no idea that these false rumours were coming from someone named Gargauth or that this Gargauth would become a deity after Algashon died.
No, I meant the part where you said that Algashon lived and died while Gargauth was trapped in a pit and probably never knew anything about him nor heard the name 'Gargauth'
Algashon clearly didn't die until he came to Peleveran. He didn't come to Peleveran until Gargauth was freed and flew to the north whispering lies "to the leadership of the Cult of the Dragon".
As to whether he was or wasn't a divine power upon being freed, in the other thread I showed that him being stripped of his divinity may have been what freed him, and perhaps later he gathered the divinity of someone/something else. This may have aided the ascension of Tchazzar. It could have also have been some kind of machination of Tiamat, since she's also a lord of hell.
I'll also note in all of this convoluted stuff involving Abbathor, possibly Astilabor, etc.... what was Gargauth noted as? A treasurer in hell (see dungeon 148 entry for astaroth).... and he's also related to a story of Astaroth who was in a dwarven citadel turning everything he touched into gold. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 01:01:31
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmmm, and regarding your statements of Gargauth not being a divinity until later.... could it be that the 17 year long ritual that freed Gargauth from the pit actually did so by STRIPPING him of his divinity? Maybe it was in fact this divinity that Tchazzar somehow gathered to enable his own rise? Maybe he was even working in cahoots with Tiamat to steal Gargauth's divinity?
Uh, why would you think that Gargauth had ever been divine before Powers and Pantheons states that he 'became a demipower in his own right'?
What is there about Gargauth that makes you feel that he had ever had divine power before he attained it in the 11th century?
Am I missing a source somewhere? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 00:55:55
Hmmmm, and regarding your statements of Gargauth not being a divinity until later.... could it be that the 17 year long ritual that freed Gargauth from the pit actually did so by STRIPPING him of his divinity? Maybe it was in fact this divinity that Tchazzar somehow gathered to enable his own rise? Maybe he was even working in cahoots with Tiamat to steal Gargauth's divinity?
Hmmm, that ghost dragon who was SOOOOO greedy (Ragflaconshen) that even after Abbathor killed him he stayed behind as a ghost dragon.... makes me wonder if this wasn't a priest of Astilabor, and the reason Abbathor killed him was to actually weaken the draconic goddess of greed. Not necessary mind you, but has some added intrigue. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 00:47:33
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Icelander, this statement isn't true
Algashon died before Gargauth was anything other than baatezu lord. In fact, Algashon lived and died while Gargauth was trapped in a pit and probably never knew anything about him nor heard the name 'Gargauth'. Any whispers of Gargauth that Algashon ever heard before 1373 DR were a devil trying to corrupt a mortal, not a god trying to steal a worshipper from another god.
I state this because of this from Powers and Pantheons which discusses Peleveran and Gargauth
It would take nearly seventeen years for Tuelhalva to gather the resources and personal power to enact the ritual required to free Gargauth from the Dark Pit of Maleficence. There are those who believe that this is because Gargauth himself had been entrapped in the Wells of Darkness himself that this casting was so complex. The truth of this matter is unclear, but what is known is that in 1018 DR, Gargauth was freed from the Dark Pit of Maleficence, and upon becoming free he summoned a horde of hellspawn to serve Tuelhalva in seizing the throne of Peleveran. As Peleveran fell to the armies of baatezu, the great fiend of the pit flew north, whispering lies of Tuelhalva destroying an ancient undead dragon king he had found in the ears of the leadership of the Cult of the Dragon. Within a month of Tuelhalva's coronation, a Rage of Dragons descended on Peleveran, and when it passed not a trace of that nation nor Tuelhalva remained.
What?
Algashon died in 1018 DR, fighting Tuelhalva Drakewings in the skies above Peleveria, after disinformation spread by Gargauth had turned two factions of the Cult of the Dragon against each other.
Gargauth did not became a demipower until after the battle at the Sign of the Silver Harp, which happened sometime between 1022-1121 DR, i.e. during the first century of the existence of the Harpers. And after escaping the pit in 1018 DR, Gargauth was known to Banites in the 11th century as the wild baatezu 'Gargoth', not as a deity or any kind of divine entity.
Basically, before the Harpstars War, the history of Gargauth is the history of a devil lord, not a deity. And I don't know how long Gargauth spent trapped in the pit under Peleverian, but from the sound of things, I wouldn't be surprised if he had been trapped there for centuries, i.e. the entire lifetime of Algashon.
Algashon 'heard the whispers of Gargauth', but he had no idea that these false rumours were coming from someone named Gargauth or that this Gargauth would become a deity after Algashon died. If Algashon ever met Gargauth*, he probably met him in disguise as a human, under a false name. Even if he met him in devil form, at some point during that 'less than a month' that Algashon and Gargauth spent on Toril at the same time, Algashon would have known him as the 'wild baatezu Gargoth', not as his later true self, under whose name he ascended to divinity, Gargauth, the Hidden Lord.
*Which I doubt he did. Much more effective and devious for Gargauth to appear in his dreams taking the form of divine messages from Bane. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 00:41:08
Icelander, this statement isn't true
Algashon died before Gargauth was anything other than baatezu lord. In fact, Algashon lived and died while Gargauth was trapped in a pit and probably never knew anything about him nor heard the name 'Gargauth'. Any whispers of Gargauth that Algashon ever heard before 1373 DR were a devil trying to corrupt a mortal, not a god trying to steal a worshipper from another god.
I state this because of this from Powers and Pantheons which discusses Peleveran and Gargauth
It would take nearly seventeen years for Tuelhalva to gather the resources and personal power to enact the ritual required to free Gargauth from the Dark Pit of Maleficence. There are those who believe that this is because Gargauth himself had been entrapped in the Wells of Darkness himself that this casting was so complex. The truth of this matter is unclear, but what is known is that in 1018 DR, Gargauth was freed from the Dark Pit of Maleficence, and upon becoming free he summoned a horde of hellspawn to serve Tuelhalva in seizing the throne of Peleveran. As Peleveran fell to the armies of baatezu, the great fiend of the pit flew north, whispering lies of Tuelhalva destroying an ancient undead dragon king he had found in the ears of the leadership of the Cult of the Dragon. Within a month of Tuelhalva's coronation, a Rage of Dragons descended on Peleveran, and when it passed not a trace of that nation nor Tuelhalva remained.
I actually also put some other pieces together from Demihuman Deities which seems to match up ROUGHLY with Tuelhalva seeking an undead dragon in 1001 DR and the discovery of a ghost dragon by dwarven priests of Abbathor the same year. I wrote this up in another thread almost a year ago today. The portions that are canon are the priests of Abbathor, the name of the ghost dragon, the year being 1001 DR, and Tuelhalva Drakewings being sent to discover an "ancient undead dragon". It should be noted as well that this dragon that the Abbathorans had found was actually killed by no less than an avatar of Abbathor.
Soon afterward, news of a ghost dragon named Ragflaconshen which had been discovered by priests of Abbathor was being sent to the cult of the dragon. However, the messenger somehow totally confused the information on the location, which was beneath the Turnback mountains north of the Tortured Lands near Anauroch, and instead reported that the ghost dragon was in the city of Peleveran. There are those who believe that Gargauth caused this misinformation in order to lure Tuelhalva Drakewings to to the Dark Pit of Maleficence, which is believed to have ties to the wells of darkness in the abyss. One of the dwarven priests was a priest-binder who it was said habitually formed a pact with the dwarven vestige, Aym, Queen of Avarice. It is thought that Gargauth's connection to Astaroth, himself a vestige after Gargauth defeated him, somehow enabled Gargauth to obtain information on the actions of the priests via the vestige of Aym. If this is true, then Gargauth has access to a powerful source of information gathering that few others have even begun to contemplate. Using other resources, which are unclear at this time, he either altered the memory of the location in the messenger of the Cult of the Dragon, coerced the individual to change the story, or was capable of seizing control of the individual even from within his entrapment, and thus it was the Tuelhalva Drakewings found himself in the capital city of Peleveran and seeking out the Dark Pit of Maleficence.
Just to aid the discussion along, here's that entry from Demihuman Deities in the Abbathor section
Major Centers of Worship: Aefarn, the House of Gold, is a fortified temple complex housing much of the collected wealth of Abbathor's clergy. The temple is located deep beneath Turnback Mountain, the southernmost peak of a mountain range of similar name running north-south along the eastern border of Anauroch and north of the frozen steppes known as the Tortured Land. The treasure vaults of the Hands of Greed are located in a cavern complex hewn millennia ago from the surrounding granite by the great red wyrm Ragflaconshen, Spawn of Mahatnartorian, before he died defending his hoard from the avaricious Abbathor. In the Year of the Wailing Winds (1000 DR), a trio of Abbathoran priests stumbled across the wyrm's long-hidden lair after following a trail of gold coins placed - or so they suspected - by the Great Master of Greed.
After an arduous adventure bypassing the long-dead wyrm's many traps, the three priests finally penetrated Ragflaconshen's inner sanctum early in the Year of the Awakening (1001 DR). There they discovered that the great wyrm had survived, after a fashion, as a ghost dragon, his spirit unable to rest until his fabulous horde was replaced in kind. The Trove Lord then appeared to the three priests in a vision and directed them to muster the faithful (along with their personal hoards) scattered throughout the Cold Lands - the territory loosely incorporating the lands between the Moonsea, Anauroch, and the Great Glacier - in the ghost dragon's lair. This mass assemblage of treasure would allow the spirit of the Trove Lord's ancient antagonist and kindred spirit in greed to rest at last. When this was done, Abbathor appeared to his assembled worshipers in avatar form and directed them, under the leadership of the Three Coinlords (as the trio was thereafter known), to build a temple honoring him. This structure would house the assembled trove of treasure (possibly the most valuable to ever exist in the Realms), as well as all new wealth that its clergy acquired in the wider world. In the nearly four centuries since the founding of Aefarn, the caverns that make up the House of Gold have been entirely covered with gold leaf and studded with precious gems. The three seniormost priests of the temple compose the ruling triumvirate (still named for its founders), although Abbathor's assembled priests work collectively to defend the House of Gold from interlopers. Each priest has his own heavily trapped set of chambers in which his personal share of the temple's wealth is hoarded. Thus those seeking to plunder the House of Gold find themselves faced with innumerable smaller fortresses in addition to the formidable collective defenses. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 00:23:27
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I think I can explain the whispers of Gargauth statement. Basically, it was Gargauth who whispered in Algashon's ear, lying to him about what Tuelhalva Drakewings was doing down in Peleveran (Gargauth told Algashon that Tuelhalva had murdered a powerful undead dragon, which brought the ire of the Cult down on Peleveran). So, you don't need to worry about him "wavering" in his worship of Bane, its just he had someone lying to him.
Yes, that seems the most reasonable explanation.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Also, interestingly, in DoF, it does give a little more info on Mourktar which does seem to indicate that the founder of the cult there was a loyalist of Algashon, but not necessarily Algashon himself.
Yeah, I caught that.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I still find it very interesting that Gargauth was released after a 17 year long ritual, Tchazzar ascended to divinity, Alasklerbanbastos embraced dracolichdom, and a dragon rage all occurred at that time. Its too coincidental to not somehow be related. I half wonder if Tchazzar and Gargauth weren't in cahoots somehow, and in return for aiding his freedom, Gargauth agreed to sponsor Tchazzar's rise to divinity. HOW he might have done so could be worth perusing. Maybe even the ritual somehow drew power from the dracorage mythal to help fuel Gargauth's release and/or Tchazzar's ascension..... maybe it even somehow channeled the deaths of many dragons??? Just throwing some ideas against the wall here.
That's interesting, but the timeline is rather against Gargauth having had anything to do with Tchazzar's bid for divinity. For one thing. Tchazzar's cult started before Gargauth became even a demipower.
Gargauth was still just a bateezu while he was imprisoned in the pit, not to mention during the battle of the Sign of the Silver Harp, which happened at some point after 1022 DR and before 1122 DR (still trying to narrow the year down). |
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