| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The Silver Sage |
Posted - 14 Mar 2018 : 13:45:20
So i’ve hit a big snag for a d&d campaign i’m running and I could use some other DM input.
The long and short of it is that my players have created a temporal paradox, and I was wondering exactly how it should thematically play out (AKA how should I torture them, for messing with time)?
More specifically, I’m running a campaign heavily involved around time and the apparent destruction of it throughout the universe. In our most recent session, my PCs traveled to the Elemental Plane of Fire, 30 years in the past. The former home of my fire genasi PC.
When she was very little (about 30 years ago), the PC witnessed her own mother sacrifice herself, to save the life of a mysterious stranger (which the PC now found out, was in fact, herself from the future). Despite me rendering the PC unconscious and completely devoid of agency (something I hate to do, but felt was necessary for the story), the rest of the party still managed to interfere with the natural cause of events. Honestly, I should have expected it. I feel like an idiot. But nevertheless, I’m left with an interesting opportunity and something of a temporal disaster.
I want my PCs to feel the weight of their actions, and I definitely want them to realize it’s not wise to simply go around mucking up timelines (they’re the ones who are supposed to save time after all). And, this causes several inconveniences for them. On the other hand, I did put them in the position, so I can’t blame them for being the murder hobos they are.
Here's a quick rundown of how the PCs have affected time:
-They snuck into the Charcoal Palace and assassinated the previous Sultan of the Effreet.
-Planted Evidence at the crime scene to make it seem like the Fey court assassinated the Sultan.
-Someone who is not supposed to be alive is now alive (PC’s mother).
-A PC now has an incurable disease which was supposed to be healed by special blood magic via the mother’s death.
Here’s some rough ideas i’ve been kicking around:
1.)The PCs remember two distinct timelines. One where the mother dies, and one where she is alive and well. See Berenstain bears/ mandela effect (http://mandelaeffect.com/). There is otherwise no discerning changes to their timeline.
2.) Time always corrects itself. Shortly after saving her mother , The PC’s mom dies in a tragic yet unrelated way.
3.) The PC has altered the timeline to the point where she no longer is the same person. She has completely different memories and experiences. She has been considering rebuilding her character. This may be a good opportunity. Ally PCs make a charisma saving throw to try and remember the original version of her.
4.) There is a sonic “time boom” and everything gets shifted a little bit. Kind of like the DC story flash point. The Fey preoccupation with battling the efreet has led to the new “blood war.” One PC’s unborn child gets erased from history. By and large the universe is a much worse place now that a PC’s mother is alive.
I welcome all suggestions and any ideas/input you guys have. Thanks for your help!
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Starshade |
Posted - 14 Jul 2018 : 23:46:45
I have thought a bit..
There is an possibility explaining time paradoxes as splintered time, one world spawn two different parallel time streams.
You could find or invent two different time gods / primordials. One is a Destroyer, killing off splintered time streams, killing them, and burn off their "thread" in the tapestry of the world. The other one is a Preserver or Creator, making whole threads of pieces of the old ones. And mends the destruction. Both counteracting each other, and balancing the other one. Something similar to gods of Fate weaving and unravelling the worlds. (the norse Norns?)
Basically some archaic strange cosmic Overgods which never have been worshipped in Toril. Basically, they would make sure immediate apocalypse won't happen, since they would either burn off a parallel world. Or reforge them to one world again. The reason I'd use two, is this would be dangerous to the players; no free meal, random which of them is fixing the timeline. The god of Destruction would possibly send minions chasing them while preparing to burn their home timeline.
Either accept fate and join the Toril of the Blue wizards of Thay, or fix their own timeline. |
| moonbeast |
Posted - 14 Jul 2018 : 19:44:32
A curly-haired Time Lord, who lives in a box, should appear and kick their butts (for messing with time). |
| Starshade |
Posted - 14 Jul 2018 : 13:27:12
4. Easiest way to explain my thoughts of this issue is with the butterfly effect from chaos theory. Something might happen no one could possibly anticipate.
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| Thraskir Skimper |
Posted - 13 Jul 2018 : 18:11:53
Each time line is a different universe so when they get back spells don't work, Gods are not quite the same, they remember things and people who don't know them. Have fun with it. Suddenly they all get a lesson from the DM don't screw up time or time screws up you. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 17 Jun 2018 : 13:45:04
See also "Every time you try to give a gamers a time travel plot" in Is It Canon? comic. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 14 Jun 2018 : 19:11:32
There are several theories when it comes to what happens when causality is altered in this fashion.
In the first, one is capable of changing the present or future by altering events in the past. This is the problem you are considering.
In another - which I believe is most like the AD&D model of time streams - there are an infinite number of outcomes that can and do occur from every event. These are represented by streams of time branching off at the junction of an event. How can you PCs get back to their own time stream? They can travel to Temporal Prime (the demiplane of time) and find the correct time stream. Alternatively, there are spells that undo temporal paradoxes designed for chonomancers who routinely meddle with timelines.
Finally, there exists the theory that the timeline cannot be effectively altered. That time what has happened, will happen, no matter the interference. Time is immutable. So, just because they managed to interfere doesn't mean their actions had any lasting effect. They saved her mom's life, who was so grateful she did not look both ways before crossing the street and was run over by a rampaging coach and killed - for example - the sultan was resurrected the next morning and revealed that the Fey were not responsible.
The PC's disease is a consequence in the future, not the past, so I'd let that play out. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 14 Jun 2018 : 12:22:42
In fiction time travel is used either to compensate for the writer's clumsiness by breaking continuity (making political "points" or cancelling plot knots via deus-ex-machina) or for its own sake (a bow toward Predestination, fetish or cameo/shoutout to some other story).
IMHO when you insert stuff inherently built upon fallacies into a game (which you don't control entirely, and therefore can't be certain you'll just walk around any inconvenient parts), you really shouldn't be surprised when eventually it goes "1=0, therefore dancing cabbages". |
| Ceranai |
Posted - 14 Jun 2018 : 11:38:58
One possibility is that time is linear but can loop back on itself, so basically (1) where the pcs remember both loops |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Mar 2018 : 23:25:28
My own list...
1) Do this, but have the two very similar - only a couple of critical differences; see the next one...
2) The mother dies ('time always rights itself'), Buuuuut... she dies in childbirth a year later. That previously 'unborn' sibling is a bad seed, and would like nothing more than to kill its older sister. See the next one...
3) This also occurs - she has double-memories, and because she now has a sibling (who hates her) that she barely remembers, her entire life played-out differently. This brings us back to what I said above in #1...
4) The timeline is mostly the same, but watch your character's faces drop when they hear the mention of the Blue Wizards of Thay. 
Explanation: Now, I know you are going to say that the above can't be true because they didn't go back far enough... but once you do something to the time river, it screws with EVERYTHING. That Quarut? he had another mission right after this one - he was supposed to stop some jerk from going back and messing with Thayd and his creation of Thay. Unfortunately, the PCs broke so much stuff, that he was forced to stay on their case, and never managed to make it back to stop those other changes from happening.
Other oddities - most not really affecting the Realms in a major way - should also keep springing up. Small things... unless you want a major change (like Azoun's son having lived). Or have the party run into people they already killed, because now, THEY DIDN'T. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Mar 2018 : 18:19:25
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
I agree with others that 2 is the "right" way to do it, but for exactly that reason I don't like it. It's the expected, and therefore (to me) a bit on the boring side regardless of how well it's done. Fantasy roleplaying has the advantage over novels that it doesn't have to be pretty or tie up all the loose ends.
I think I'd go with one of the other options (probably 4) if it was me. Partly as a challenge to myself as DM. That's just me, of course. 
I'm not a fan of 4, myself, because of the whole paradox angle. If something that affects the PCs doesn't happen, then the PC doesn't wind up in a position to alter time...
Time travel is just too much of a mess. I loved the Chronomancer supplement when it came out, but I'd not touch that, as a DM.
In fact, I had a DM kick my group something like a century into the future, and that really affected my enjoyment of the entire campaign. It lost some of its luster, after that. |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 20 Mar 2018 : 14:56:48
I agree with others that 2 is the "right" way to do it, but for exactly that reason I don't like it. It's the expected, and therefore (to me) a bit on the boring side regardless of how well it's done. Fantasy roleplaying has the advantage over novels that it doesn't have to be pretty or tie up all the loose ends.
I think I'd go with one of the other options (probably 4) if it was me. Partly as a challenge to myself as DM. That's just me, of course. |
| The Silver Sage |
Posted - 14 Mar 2018 : 16:03:15
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Your party is now the target of quaruts.
No, seriously, that's what they do: kill people who screw with time.
Lol Its funny you mention this. I've been having a time Quarut hunt them throughout space and time. They have been ducking this guy since level one; when the "anomalies" (PCs) were at their weakest. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Mar 2018 : 15:08:57
Go with number 2. Time corrects itself, and those who are supposed to die are going to die. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 14 Mar 2018 : 15:04:45
Your party is now the target of quaruts.
No, seriously, that's what they do: kill people who screw with time. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 14 Mar 2018 : 14:14:56
I always go with number 2. Terry pratchett did a brilliant depiction of this kind of stuff in the Night Watch.
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