| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Helm |
Posted - 11 Jun 2017 : 20:05:52
I will be starting a new 5e campaign soon based around the Dalelands. One of the premises is with the fall of Netheril and destruction of Myth Drannor, old enemies have been swift to take advantage. One idea I have is Zhentil Keep being rebuilt and has conquered the surrounding towns (Teshwave, Voonlar and Yulash) to form a small kingdom. With its armies at the gates of Hillsfar. I haven't decided what form this kingdom will take, i.e. Theocracy, Militocracy or whatever but my main creative block is giving it a name.
I would really appreciate any suggestions. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Misereor |
Posted - 12 Sep 2018 : 12:27:07
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
My twist: what's the Chondathan word for "New"? Once you figure that out, call it something like New Zhentil.
For example if the Old Chondathan word for new is something like -argo, then call it like The Citadel of Zhentargo.
I guess it would depend a lot on the attitude of the new settlers.
If they have a bad case of hero worship for old Zhentish champions, they will probably generate names based on that (family names, children's names, place names, etc)
If they wanted to downplay the connection to the old Keep, they'd probably go for a complete rename or a return to pre-Zhentish naming standards.
And that would depend on who the new settlers are.
Flostren's hold was originally a trading camp, so I imagine it's development into Zhentil Keep was a lot like Rome's, attracting a mix of renegades, traders, and locals, with common interests, who eventually built the place into a real city.
Is the new kingdom more of the same (weak historical links to ZK), or does it consist mostly of returning refugees and Zhentarim members (strong historical links to ZK)?
All I know, is that it would be fun to have a hill called "Elminster's Folly", a "Gully of The Fallen Knights" (of Myth Drannor), or have taverns named "Hillsfar's Lament" as the locals develop their own historical narrative.
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| moonbeast |
Posted - 12 Sep 2018 : 04:06:44
quote:
Originally posted by Misereor
And name him "Zhentil", just to cover your bases.
My twist: what's the Chondathan word for "New"? Once you figure that out, call it something like New Zhentil.
For example if the Old Chondathan word for new is something like -argo, then call it like The Citadel of Zhentargo.
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| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 11 Sep 2018 : 07:28:31
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Shoondale! Have the Leader be a descendant of Manshoon the Great!
1) Manshoon is still alive (Ed's hinted at 3 being alive)
2) Manshoon hunted down his kin and killed them or entrapped them. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 11 Sep 2018 : 07:26:57
Sorry, but Thayans grabbing at land there is insane. Why is everyone so obsessed with Thay? Its 1 only country, and its really among the least interesting. Look to the rest of the realms! |
| Fineva |
Posted - 11 Sep 2018 : 06:25:15
Oddly there are writers thinking of this place also. How about a module on how the keep is rebuilt? The king should be from a local powerful tribe, maybe orcs? Threatened by Thayan land grabs, the good guys (relative term for orcs) become unlikely protectors.
I'm thinking of a place to set a module. Lemme know |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 11 Sep 2018 : 05:13:11
I had forgotten - the old name for things in that region is "Thargate" |
| BadLuckBugbear |
Posted - 10 Sep 2018 : 18:18:37
The Zhent League?
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| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 07 Sep 2018 : 05:42:55
Kinda a resurrection, but you could tie it WAY back to Flostren maybe? Zhentil Keep was originally Flostren's Hold. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Jul 2017 : 18:23:56
Its not from the out-set of 4e - I believe it was something they 'back-peddled' on later in the life-cycle of 4e.
I truly doubt its from a Dragon (DDi) article, since I never subscribed to that. However, I have seen a couple of things from that source, and I can't figure out where else I would have gotten that impression (unless it was something one of the designers said on the WotC forums, before those got shut-down... but once again, that doesn't feel right either).
Maybe from the Blades of the Moonsea trilogy? Unfortunately I no longer have those books... even my signed copy of the first one. {sigh} |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Jul 2017 : 18:00:16
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So basically, they've turned back the clock with the Moonsea as well (a bunch of citystates, some of which control others for a time, but basically chaos and criminality abound, and things can change on a whim).
And I think Zhentil Keep was a 'secret city' in 4e, sort of. I recall reading something that said most folk of the Realms still think Zhentil keep is completely destroyed, when in reality, the Zhents have been returning, little by little (so as not to attract attention), and have at least the dockward section rebuilt, and use it as a 'pirate town' of sorts... but its all hush-hush, because they don't want to draw attention to the fact that they ARE BACK.
At least, thats how I think things stood in 4e.
I don't recall reading that, but I only read the 4E campaign book once, and I was -- as noted in the review I posted at the time -- rather underwhelmed by it.
Canon or not, though, it's a really nifty idea. I like it. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Jul 2017 : 16:59:21
So basically, they've turned back the clock with the Moonsea as well (a bunch of citystates, some of which control others for a time, but basically chaos and criminality abound, and things can change on a whim).
And I think Zhentil Keep was a 'secret city' in 4e, sort of. I recall reading something that said most folk of the Realms still think Zhentil keep is completely destroyed, when in reality, the Zhents have been returning, little by little (so as not to attract attention), and have at least the dockward section rebuilt, and use it as a 'pirate town' of sorts... but its all hush-hush, because they don't want to draw attention to the fact that they ARE BACK.
At least, thats how I think things stood in 4e. |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 03 Jul 2017 : 10:57:55
There's some info in another thread about the current state of Zhentil Keep.
As far as the rest of the Moonsea area goes, that's the territory of the first four seasons of the Adventurer's League. I haven't played any of it, but I've tried to get a general idea and I've bought some of the material. As far as I can tell:
Phlan was in a bit of disarray with the recent death of its lord, got taken over by a dragon, but then Jhessail Greycastle, commander of the Black Fist (Phlan's militia), rallied some allies and retook the town. Unclear what the current situation is.
Mulmaster is involved in the Elemental Evil storyline, and I've seen "pre and post devastation" maps about. I think in the ultimate adventure of the Season, the city may get very badly damaged by a massive explosion, but it's also possible to avoid it. I think the city is ruled by either High Blade Jaseem Drakehorn or High Blade Rastol Shan, depending on how the Season goes.
Hillsfar capitulated to the Zhentarim (was this in the Myth Drannor retaking series? I forget). Then a senate ruled it with the Shadovar watching closely, then First Lord Torin Nomerthal came to power after beating back the Netherese. I think he gets assassinated during the Rage of Demons storyline and a guy called Vuhm Yestral, formerly of the Red Plumes, comes to power. I think. |
| Helm |
Posted - 03 Jul 2017 : 09:25:06
Thanks again for the suggestions and info.
As for the 'state' of Zhentil Keep by the 5e era. To my knowledge it had been destroyed by the Shades (maybe during 4e?). Later the capital city of the shades-Thultanthar (sp?) was destroyed and crashed onto Myth Drannor. The surviving elves have retreated to other settlements in Cormanthor. |
| Varl |
Posted - 01 Jul 2017 : 04:52:43
You could always expand upon Zhentil Keep by changing its old surname to more pronounced and grandiose surname, such as Zhentil Citadel, Zhentil Fasthold or Zhent Stronghold.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 15:44:36
And it may or may not have been the same group/kingdom that was 'The People of the Black Sails', which also ruled over the Moonsea area for a time.
Didn't the Zhents pretty-much control the entire Moonsea by the end of 3e? Or was all that for nothing, because they were immediately nuked by the Shades (who were then nuked themselves)? I should really read that series about the retaking of Myth Drannor.
So in 5e, how does all of that stand? As it was in the 1e/2e era? Or are the Zhents even less powerful than they were then (geo-politically, I mean)? |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 08:37:53
Unfortunately i think barze is almost completely erases from the realms.
The kingdom was conquered by tyranthraxus and his hordes.
Anyone not killed and still living in the region was drained of life and magic when a black dragon named embrurshaille performed a ritual to empower herself.
I believe barze is now inside the wasteland that is Thar and that ritual is why it is a wasteland.
The buildings would then have been occupied by the ogre kingdom of thar and the orc kingdom of thar but they all likely crumbled to dust long ago.
Id be very surprised if any magic or people or buildings survive to today. The only ones that likely escaped ended up in northkeep and embrurshailles brother destroyed that |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 30 Jun 2017 : 07:27:33
An article by Brian and Matt James in Dungeon #170 described the ancient kingdom of Barze not far to the northeast, a Netherese successor state that was eventually brought low by Tyranthraxus. Perhaps a new kingdom in the area could be inspired by the artifacts of that era, and be called Barze as well, or "New Barze" or some such. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Jun 2017 : 23:38:08
To tell you the truth (as a guy who names fantasy geography all the time), I like just 'Zhentil'. It sounds fine.
EDIT:
Or, conversely, you could steal a page from Runequest and call it 'The Lunar Empire' (because its around the Moonsea), or even just the 'Empire of the Moon' (but that would make people think its a 'force for good', because of the connection to Selūne).
EDIT2:
Oh, and the Moonsea used to be called The Dragon Sea, a millennia or so ago. It is called that in at least one entry in the 1e FRCS, and I confirmed it with Ed that that is indeed the case. Thus, you could do something with that... but of course, 'dragon' is nearly as over-used as 'Moon' in FR names (or 'Star', for that matter).
You know, a lot of places (and people) have 'Shar' in the names as well. 'Shardragon' sounds pretty nifty (say it fast as one word, not as its two component words). |
| Helm |
Posted - 16 Jun 2017 : 08:15:26
Yeah that sounds like a good adventure hook. I can imagine the PCs getting involved in a struggle to locate this heir. Maybe he or she has fled Teshar with a harper agent (possibly wounded in the process), with Zhentarim in pursuit. Maybe he/she is privy to some secrets Teshar don't want the Dales to know. I can imagine a chase adventure with the PCs racing to meet with the Dales Council for him or her to speak. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Jun 2017 : 19:40:02
quote:
Originally posted by Helm
So I'm guessing the Zhents could dig up a heir from the populace...using their detect DNA spells?
I'd expect it would be more like finding a distinctive item known to have belonged to a specific person -- it would likely be an heirloom passed down within a family. Once you find it, you can check back thru local histories and such to find the connection. |
| Helm |
Posted - 15 Jun 2017 : 18:49:10
So I'm guessing the Zhents could dig up a heir from the populace...using their detect DNA spells? |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 15 Jun 2017 : 18:01:57
The northern moonsea people are also of part netherese stock so technically zhentil keep is somewhat of a successor to teshar anyway |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 15 Jun 2017 : 17:57:04
Shoondale! Have the Leader be a descendant of Manshoon the Great! |
| Helm |
Posted - 15 Jun 2017 : 17:51:58
Really good adventure ideas here. I wonder of those Zhent wizards have invented an "identify DNA" spell? :D |
| RDS |
Posted - 15 Jun 2017 : 17:37:05
An heir could be Alaphlame. Hlonatar was a short lived kingdom at the terminus of the Tesh river and Alaphlame excaped Alokkair's wrath when she and her sisters tried to kill their tyrant father. If she survived there could be many heirs available to choose from. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Jun 2017 : 17:20:26
quote:
Originally posted by Helm
I wonder if the Zhents named the domain "Teshar" it would be recognized by anyone (apart from historians)? Would it help legitimize what they have done (subjugated the surrounding towns)?
Only if they could somehow prove a connection to the original nation -- and even then, it would be iffy.
That might be a fun idea, though... As they're setting up their kingdom, the Zhents decide to see if they can find a connection to the original Netherese. It takes them some time, but they eventually track down a young woman who is a direct descendant of Teshar's last ruler. To get a degree of legitimacy, they plan to marry her off to the new ruler of Teshilar.
They don't realize the Harpers got to her first, though... (Or, depending on how you want to spin things, the Red Wizards or any other group) 
It could also be more indirect. The young woman agrees to the marriage, but she's bringing her best friend along as a companion, to keep her company -- and it's the best friend that's working for the other group. |
| Helm |
Posted - 15 Jun 2017 : 16:47:13
I wonder if the Zhents named the domain "Teshar" it would be recognized by anyone (apart from historians)? Would it help legitimize what they have done (subjugated the surrounding towns)? |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 15 Jun 2017 : 15:59:36
Teshar is the name of an old and shortlived nation formed on the tesh valley by netherese survivors. |
| Helm |
Posted - 15 Jun 2017 : 15:37:22
Certainly the River Tesh and the Moonsea are major geographical features. Especially if the Zhents are trying to de-emphasize their previous "bad deeds" then a non-Zhent sounding name might be appropriate. Teshilar sounds interesting. I think I'm sold on that!
Now to decide if it has a title to go with it. i.e. Kingdom of Teshilar. City-state of? Dominion of? Federation of? Hmm, I'm going too Star Trek-y now! :D |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Jun 2017 : 12:37:09
You could take the kingdom name from the area... Some of these cities are on the River Tesh, some are on the Moonsea. So you could go for Teshar, Teshal, Teshilar, Moonsaer, Moonlar, Moonsrar... |
