| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Fendrikor |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 13:19:55
How can the Peregost, a champion of cyric who has been around for hundreds of years, commander responsible for any number of zhentarim activities undermining the west and Cormyr for god knows how long - suddenly become the inspirational figurehead of the new Zhentarim.
Is there something im missing about his personality here? The man walks around in Bone white armor with a skull mask. And Manxam lives in his basement.
Has anyone ever portayed the Peregost before, or know of a good source of information on his personality / character?
Additionally - while im asking questions about the darkhold - would anyone know if the Zhentarim still harbor dark-wizards and skymages since the destruction of Zhentilkeep? |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Nov 2016 : 18:40:35
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
Well, perhaps the very reason that Promotion through Assassination functions so well for the Zhentarim is that the Spirit possesses the Assassin when the previous host is killed. So, an advertised vulnerability is actually a way to continually trap the most ambitious, ruthless, and intelligent people that seek to seize control of the Zhentarim.
Why would a spirit want to possess those best suited to resisting the possession? That's a good way to find yourself without a ride... Besides which, possessing someone with those traits simply takes them out of the picture, because they're no longer exercising those traits.
Right, it takes those people out of the picture and ensures continuity of Leadership regardless of any murderous plots within the organization. Kind of like a Venus Flytrap type of scenario. It tricks subordinates into thinking that Murderous Ambition will get them ahead, when all it really does is lead to their Doom...
Murder accomplishes the same goal, without the risk of trying to possess someone strong enough to resist being possessed. |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 17 Nov 2016 : 15:27:29
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
Well, perhaps the very reason that Promotion through Assassination functions so well for the Zhentarim is that the Spirit possesses the Assassin when the previous host is killed. So, an advertised vulnerability is actually a way to continually trap the most ambitious, ruthless, and intelligent people that seek to seize control of the Zhentarim.
Why would a spirit want to possess those best suited to resisting the possession? That's a good way to find yourself without a ride... Besides which, possessing someone with those traits simply takes them out of the picture, because they're no longer exercising those traits.
Right, it takes those people out of the picture and ensures continuity of Leadership regardless of any murderous plots within the organization. Kind of like a Venus Flytrap type of scenario. It tricks subordinates into thinking that Murderous Ambition will get them ahead, when all it really does is lead to their Doom...
I read through the link you provided as well, good stuff. Everyone has had great ideas about the Pereghost in this scroll. As it stands in the current 5e era, the Pereghost seems like the most consistent figure in the Zhentarim. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Nov 2016 : 02:33:47
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
Well, perhaps the very reason that Promotion through Assassination functions so well for the Zhentarim is that the Spirit possesses the Assassin when the previous host is killed. So, an advertised vulnerability is actually a way to continually trap the most ambitious, ruthless, and intelligent people that seek to seize control of the Zhentarim.
Why would a spirit want to possess those best suited to resisting the possession? That's a good way to find yourself without a ride... Besides which, possessing someone with those traits simply takes them out of the picture, because they're no longer exercising those traits. |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 21:41:39
Well, perhaps the very reason that Promotion through Assassination functions so well for the Zhentarim is that the Spirit possesses the Assassin when the previous host is killed. So, an advertised vulnerability is actually a way to continually trap the most ambitious, ruthless, and intelligent people that seek to seize control of the Zhentarim. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 20:45:45
I would be more inclined to think the name is just a title and not a description. Someone wanting to keep secrets isn't going to advertise exactly what they are.
To borrow a line from How to Be A Superhero, you wouldn't advertise your weakness by calling yourself Captain Vulnerable-To-Strontium-90 -- so some sort of wandering spirit, wanting to hold power in an evil group known for promotion thru assassination, wouldn't go around calling itself The Wandering Spirit. |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 20:16:31
You're right Wooly, sometimes a name is just a name. However, I tend to see this as more of a title than a name, which causes me to attach symbolism to it. The interpretation of Pereghost as a Traveling Spirit has great potential as well... The history of the Zhentarim shows them being pulled between the forces of Law & Chaos by Bane & Cyric... We know that Tyranthraxus is a traveling spirit that is a Lawful Evil force. Could Pereghost be a traveling spirit that is a Chaotic Evil force? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 16:47:42
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
I have been considering the identity and purpose of the Pereghost for quite some time, and as always I like to look at these things through the lens of mythology and symbolism. The way I see the name is to split it into "Pereg" and "Host". The word Peregrine means "Foreign" or "Alien" or "Outcast". So, the meaning of Pereghost has some interesting potential interpretations.
Peregrinate means to travel or journey. It could be a combination of that word and ghost, meaning a traveling spirit of some sort.
Or it could be that someone just thought it was a cool name. I'm familiar with the idea that names have meaning or power, but sometimes Bahb just means Bahb. |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 15 Nov 2016 : 16:25:54
I have been considering the identity and purpose of the Pereghost for quite some time, and as always I like to look at these things through the lens of mythology and symbolism. The way I see the name is to split it into "Pereg" and "Host". The word Peregrine means "Foreign" or "Alien" or "Outcast". So, the meaning of Pereghost has some interesting potential interpretations.
Also, the Peregrine Falcon has a great deal of mythological symbolism, and synchronizes well with Cyric & the Zhentarim. The Falcon is indicative of success, victory, and rising above circumstances. It also associated with the Rising Sun, Visionary Power, Wisdom, and War. Interestingly it is also associated with Loki in Norse Mythology.
Essentially, I see the Pereghost as the Falcon. If one uses this interpretation, the Pereghost's personality would be noted by Keen Intellect, superior strategy & ability to calculate & judge prey, accompanied by a singular one-pointed focus on achieving a goal.
All of this leads me to think that the Pereghost has a goal that super-cedes the both Cyric & the Zhentarim. Additionally, I suspect that whomever walks around in the Skull Mask and Bone Armor is merely a proxy, and that the real Pereghost is very much unlike the person wearing the Skull Mask. |
| Fendrikor |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 13:28:29
This is amazing, thankyou guys.
Its hard for me to acess the old castles boxed set, but this is good to get some insights.
For my purposes, he is going to be a true champion of Cyric who has been turned into a deathknight. He never takes the armor off and rarely ever makes an appearance, when he does - people are in awe of him. He is still everybit as Charismatic and inspiring as he was. But a darkness hangs heavy on him. He wields 'deceit' instead of 'determination'.
Id like to think his warped take on things is the world knows chaos because the gods are in conflict, only the victory of cyric, the one true god to rule all gods, will bring stability to the world. The truth is a tool, but a lie is a weapon. He will bring order to the world, a vision so long term, undeath is a necessary sacrifice he was willing to make to see it through... |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 05:39:29
I wont't speak to the "new" Pereghost (as I think the official evolution of the Zhents simply makes them less interesting with each additional description since the Cloak & Dagger book), but the original description of him comes from the Castles box set. It was very complete, yet still mysterious enough to allow for the current mystery.
To still be alive he would have to be magical in some way - either potions of longevity or the like or one of the old possibilities.
Possibilities given for this in Castles are he is 1) a polymorphed dragon (who would obviously not be dead of old age) or 2) an undead being with an illusion of comeliness. Both options have interesting possibilities.
If I were to go with a dragon, I would go with something unusual - perhaps a ferrous dragon or a fang dragon (wrong alignment for fang dragon, but the lack of breath weapon works)
If I were to go with undead the obvious choice would be a death knight (which goes well with the fallen paladin suggestion from Castles) |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 23:42:51
The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide has all the lore we know about the current Pereghost (which may or may not be the same figure as the old Pereghost). The description there sets him/her/it up as a figure of mystery, and I would wager you'll have to wait for a campaign guide to know more. The current status pretty much has it as "he could be anyone or anything", which is good fun for DMs to play with, not so much if you're hungry for canon. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 23:21:32
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Im pretty sure the ruins of zhentil keep listed all these tactics as things the zhents do.
Mayhaps, but that was written when they were the self-serving Black Network, not a mercenary group. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 21:17:45
Im pretty sure the ruins of zhentil keep listed all these tactics as things the zhents do. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 21:08:23
I like Wooly's answer as well - I can definitely seeing them setting-up some sort of threat, just so they could 'move in' to an area they had some interest in all along.
Example:
Peasant: "Yay! The Zhents saved out town!"
Harper: "Oh, do you mean from the goblins? The SAME band of goblins that have threatened the last three villages the Zhents 'saved' ?" |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 18:49:01
I like Markus's answer. That's how I'd run with the changing face of the Zhents. 
The article on the ridiculously-named "Zhent Headless Horseman" (seriously, no one thought to call him the Headless Zhent or the Fallen Horseman or anything else better?) offers this:
quote:
The Zhentarim's Black Network of merchants, spies, and assassins began suffering unexpected reversals several years ago, though few enough realized it. High-ranking Zhentarim wizards covered up the specifics of each disaster, but rumors leaked out nonetheless. Even interested outsiders heard a tale or two about sudden raids on established Zhentarim merchant caravans, the loss of at least two supposedly secret cells in the Silver Marches, and the assassination of at least one important official in Zhentil Keep itself.
Though unsubstantiated, most believe the Zhentarim can trace their trouble to the appearance of shades in Anauroch, shades who claim kin to ancient Netheril now transfused with shadow's grim vitality. What complaint the Netherese have with the Zhentarim is a complete mystery.
Regardless of whether the Shadovar are to blame for the Zhentarim's recent tribulations, one fact is certain: a small Zhentarim garrison northwest of the Dalelands revealed itself, declaring its intentions to act as a source of mercenary might to any with the coin to pay for Zhentarim know-how and Zhentarim connections.
A surprising move to be sure -- when had the Black Network ever before showed any interest in advancing anything but their own schemes? Most suspect the Zhents made the offer in bad faith. Word in the Dales was that even while taking mercenary coin, the Zhents would report their activities all the way to Zhentil Keep, describing what they learned while supposedly pursuing commissions.
Other students of the Zhentarim believed such behavior was simply not in keeping with the egotistical dogma driving the organization. No, proclaimed these naysayers; the Zhentarim must face some sort of real, as yet unrevealed threat for the organization to take actions so at odds with their standard dealings. They suggested the network was attempting a full-on campaign to fill its war chest by hook, crook, and even "legitimate" means.
Another thought: these are not good people... And the concept of creating a threat just to come along and get paid for dealing with it is a well-known con... 
And it doesn't have to just be about money, either... Say there's a particular person rather opposed to the Zhents and able to do something about it. Oh, darn, suddenly his hometown is beset by a large group of orcs or something. Of course he heroically rallies the townsfolk, and leads them to defeat the orc scourge -- and walks right into a orc ambush that the Zhents actually orchestrated and are supporting. Later, the townsfolk find their kin and their local hero, slain and surrounded by orc corpses. Of course it was orcs that did it! It's just lucky for the townsfolk that the Zhents arrived a day or two later and were able to help out! Now they've got money from the townsfolk, their gratitude, a threat neutralized, and the chance to leave some of their guys behind to "protect" the town -- and all the Zhents had to do was stir up some orcs and aim them at this town. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 17:44:57
I 'think' where the Zhents are concerned, they have two different 'faces' - the one most people are aware of, and then their 'true' face. I just think the 5e designers aren't very good at discerning these 'fine points' in the lore (or just don't want to, since 4e/5e lore is meant to be more 'interpreted' by DMs).
Most folks know them as tough mercenaries who 'get the job done at any cost'. They are the type of mercs a trading coster would hire when they are having 'trouble' with a rival. "No questions asked" - that sort of thing.
Then there is the real Zhents, with their agenda of taking stuff over. Woe be the small village that hires them to get rid of some goblins - they'll never leave (although thats kind of how the Zhents operated in the Sunset Vale all along, so this behavior isn't really 'new', so much as its 'more refined' so that their true nature remains hidden... for the most part).
So the Zhents probably self-promote themselves as 'saviors', and most common folk (who haven't had direct dealings with them already) probably believe at least some of that. This is where you get the two very different versions of the Zhentarrim - as the DM, you are reading the 'truth', not the 'spin'. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 15:50:07
I found an article on my NAS about the Pereghost, entitled "The Three Faces of the Pereghost." It talks about what is known about the Pereghost, and gives three different spins on his then-current status (3.5 era) so you can use him the way you want.
The thing is, when I found this article back in the day, I copied and pasted it to Word, and I was not at that time in the habit of including the source URL in the file when I did that. And it was in 2003. So I've no idea who came up with this. I would suspect it came from Sean K Reynolds's website, but I just looked at the site and did not see it there.
So I don't know where it came from, who wrote it, or if it even approaches canon... I'll gladly provide proper attribution, but someone would have to give it to me, first! 
But here is a direct download of the doc, for anyone interested: Clicky! |
| Fendrikor |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 14:19:36
Dont get me wrong - im a 1360 purist aswell - I only moved to 5e's lore to accomodate a living world setting with a number of other fresh DM's who had no idea about the forgotten realms past and thus we needed to streamline our source material. Im just trying (in vain) to reconcile it with my favorite parts of the lore.
I just feel like the new Zhentarim makes no sense at all. Its just this... tollerated undermining force of blatantly evil and sinister characters hiding behind a really hard to buy 'sterling mercinary reputation' which is not reflected at all in the current module releases which paint them as unscrupulous villains with a sinister agenda for world domination. The Peregost to me is, and always will be, a super edgy skull masked 'the witch king' style villain with no depth.
Im just hoping maybe someone can point me to where i may find out more about him. And if any depth for him exists at all? |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 13:27:18
It may just be because im an old school realms fan, but i wouldnt invest much thought into the hows and whys of 1490s FR. If something doesnt make sense with prior lore there is likely no reason existent behind it.
Just accept the new lore for what it is and forget about reconciling it with the past.
Or be like me and forget about the new lore (because it can only ever be second best) and stay firmly stuck in the 1360s |
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