| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 29 Oct 2016 : 09:35:37
Im attempting to come up with a concept for my rebooted realms to make adventuring a bit more easy for the DM and players, as well as to provide an instant access organisation with goals and progression that people seem to crave so much.
It would enable people to go to a place and be given instant access to rumours and missions (that people contract the guild to do).
It wwould allow people to buy claims on ruins to plunder that no other guild members would normally disobey.
It would also allow players an easy place to recruit henchmen to collect the loot players cant carry. as well as to sell that booty.
Im not proposing a single continent wide guild, but a series of big regional guilds, with competing local guilds and in places like unther and thay there would be underground illicit guilds.
Has anyone tried this before. any thoughts on the idea. |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Cards77 |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 14:03:49
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I've always loved the idea of extensive crafting rules, inspired in the main by the old 1E DMG info re potion ingredients and then Ed's spell ink formulae and constant references to monster parts being good for X, Y or Z magic. In my perfect campaign, it wouldn't be only for magic though, but for herbal stuff, medicines, antidotes and chemical compounds (ala "flash powder"). Of course, to do it properly the time used to make all this stuff would be strictly enforced in game - preventing the said PC from adventuring and lagging in terms of XP and level advancement. This would in turn lead to a more Gygaxian set up where theer were lots of hirelings and henchmen, and as in Ed's campaign NPC adventurer buddies (Dove, Aumark Lithyl, Islif Lurelake etc.) who could be "played" by an individual while their main PC was dormant doing crafting. Dream campaigns - what wonderful things they are.
-- George Krashos
Dream? This is what I do....it's the best way to give meaning to all the wonderful details that the old dungeons had like the ones in the OGB.
I've taught my players to care desperately about those damn jars of hippogriff feathers! And they love it that way.
It's a tribute to you Grognards and how details are supposed to be done. It's a living working world, just like ours. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 16:38:33
IN C&S, I believe 'mortal' items went up to +5, but deity-made items could go up to +10 (+6 thru +10 are artifacts).
However, all of that was offset by the time-consuming nature of enchanting. A +5 item would take decades to make. That means most items over +2-3 would be dwarf or elf-made.
And now I remember a bit more of the system - it was a D100 system, so everything was based on that. You only reduced the BMR of an item by .1 (1%) each time. Thus, if you were trying to enchant steel (lets just say it was BMR: 6), you'd first have to reduce it to BMR: 5.9, then 5.8, etc.
Thus, Lead being BMR: 10 was a big deal - you had to enchant it (successfully) 100 times! And IIRC, your chance of success (enchanting) was proportionate to how far along you were with reducing the resistance. For example, with an item that had a BMR of 4.7 you would have a 47% chance of your 'Enchant' spell working. Getting that last 1% was super hard (even with bonuses, which you were allowed).
So I guess you could say magic items were EXTREMELY rare in C&S, much more so than D&D. You prized a +1 sword if you found one.
EDIT: And I still like the cost of making magic items in earlier versions of D&D, and any system I come up with would incorporate that. Every magic item you make would cost one PERMANENT point of constitution (A bit of your 'soul' {life energy} has to be sacrificed into the item). Thats another limiting factor on magic items - I hate 'Monty Haul' style RPGs (which is nearly all CRPGs). |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 13:23:04
Well ive rewritten the 3rd edition rules and that includes crafting.
I can now add any spell or ability at any spell level and for varying durations and areas of effect, number of uses etc. First you have to enchant the weapon to a certain power level then you can later add spells and properties up to a maximum of the enchantment level of the item.
I have got reagents in there a bit but they are mostly used as an alternative to the massive gp cost for crafting (a +3 item costs at least a million and thats before any properties or spells are added to it.
I also rewrote the economics so people really can live off silver and copper piece incomes which makes magic massively more expensive.
+3 items are the most a mortal can create (with a cost that could bankrupt a royal family). Up to +5 are the preserve of the gods. beyond that is unique circumstances across the entire multiverse. and ive got rules to allow weapons to gain abilities through continued use, it just takes a long time or some act of epic proportions.
Ill have a look at this castles and sorcery, it sounds intriguing.
So adventurers guilds and crafting needs building into the realms. i also think a rework of the economics is in order. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 09:40:49
Yup, thats how C&S was, plus it had well over a dozen completely different magic 'classes' that all worked differently, and all needed their own ingredients for various things. It was a thing of beauty. There were even a few 'synergies', like how a conjurer needed a specific ingredient for his 'cauldron' (Think The Wizard of Id) that could only be obtained from a qualified alchemist, etc. (And that conjuror even had a chance to attract a 'spook' to his pot over time,)
The whole system was based upon something called 'BMR' - Basic Magic Resistance. You had to reduced a substances's magical resistance to zero before you could put magic into it (by casting 'enchant' repeatedly). The only thing that had a natural BMR of zero was dragon's gold. I believe Lead was the highest, with a '10', IIRC. Oh, and the lower the number, the harder it was to get it to the next number. i forget the precise equations, but it got down to where you only had like a 5% chance of reaching the next lower BMR each time you cast Enchant, so it was very time consuming, but a bit of luck could help you out (or bad luck could hurt you). Characters were required to sit-out however many sessions it took to do the thing (everyone had back-up PC's in the game I played). And all of that was just for ONE ingredient - the rest was based on the 'Law of Three'; A first level spell item required 3 ingredients. A second level, 9. The third, 27, etc, etc. Thus, it could take you a year of game time just to enchant all the ingredients down to BMR: 0, and all that before you even began crafting the item!
I think maybe for the enchanting part you were allowed to still be adventuring - just had to cast the spell while out (which cost you energy that you may have needed in a fight). In D&D terms, that would be like giving up 1 spell slot per day. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 06:42:15
I've always loved the idea of extensive crafting rules, inspired in the main by the old 1E DMG info re potion ingredients and then Ed's spell ink formulae and constant references to monster parts being good for X, Y or Z magic. In my perfect campaign, it wouldn't be only for magic though, but for herbal stuff, medicines, antidotes and chemical compounds (ala "flash powder"). Of course, to do it properly the time used to make all this stuff would be strictly enforced in game - preventing the said PC from adventuring and lagging in terms of XP and level advancement. This would in turn lead to a more Gygaxian set up where theer were lots of hirelings and henchmen, and as in Ed's campaign NPC adventurer buddies (Dove, Aumark Lithyl, Islif Lurelake etc.) who could be "played" by an individual while their main PC was dormant doing crafting. Dream campaigns - what wonderful things they are.
-- George Krashos |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 17:55:17
Crafting.
I know Pathfinder tried its hand at that, and it was met with mixed reviews. I haven't been on their site in awhile, so I don't know if thats still the case.
Chivalry & Sorcery had the best damn Crafting rules I've ever seen in a TT RPG - the only ones I think really worked. I wish their 'materials tables' would enter the public domain - it would an amazing resource for all games. I've thought about renaming their concepts and just stealing it, but the tables themselves are intrinsic, and I'd have to make the numbers indentical for it to all work... which probably crosses the (legal) line of 'derivative work'.
I should probably look at what Paizo did, instead of just reading other people's opinions of it. Maybe their system is similar enough to C&S' that I would like it. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 09:38:20
this has me thinking now. is there anything else missing from the realms that really should be there (for ease of play) but does not because the concept had not yet been invented back in the day (adventurers guild i think is born from computer games like the elder scrolls and fable etc).
so what else do modern rpgs or crpgs have that could be borrowed for a pen and paper rpg. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 30 Oct 2016 : 08:15:29
Generic resources are definitely more helpful and there should be more. but i just cant bring myself to do generic lore, it has to be specific to the region and the history of that region to make it special and interesting.
No reason why the two cant be married though. have the same floorplan that is used for each guild house. Computer games have been doing it for years
Im steering clear of dms guild though. i much prefer to make stuff available here. plus i cant get into 5e so im going to go with my own rules.
I might look into your recommendations for software to generate maps and interiors when i near the end. gimp just sounds weird though |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Oct 2016 : 23:18:37
I made it continent(world?)-wide in MY version only because my Misbegotten Realms was designed more for 'DM ease' then anything else, so having an 'all-purpose adventurer's stop' wherever I needed one to be was the way to go. I can just use one floor-plan/map for them all, with little 'tweaks' to make them a little different (or not - it would be amusing to pull a 'Pokémon' and have the NPCs all be the same from place to place). 
EDIT: Now you have me thinking about doing a floorplan of the Inn itself, using and architecture program I used to use for my real job. With that program you can even do '3D walk-throughs', which I think would be pretty damn cool. The furniture is all modern-looking, though, but if I just use the wooden stuff it shouldn't be too jarring. I've been meaning to port-over my RW skills for some time, and this might be just the right project for this. I could possibly even start to create my own content for the program - I've done that before, and my 3D skills have gotten MUCH better. The program is only around $49, and not too hard to learn, so it could become a 'big thing' for DMs if the community developed more appropriate content for it.
Punch! Home & Landscape Design Essentials
EDIT2: And now that I think about it, because you can do 'landscaping' with it, and make any size 'yard' you want, you could even do outdoor encounters with it! 
There are a few non-foliage related outdoor items as well that can be used, although I think the gas grills may be a bit too 'new'. LOL |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 29 Oct 2016 : 21:18:35
Well like i said earlier this isnt a huge continent wide organisation.
In cormyr there would be The Kings Men for the rich and noble sons (with a hefty yearly membership fee). Maybe a lower tier one for normal adventurers (non nobles), and then a few specific to each city.
Yes each guild would have links to the others in cormyr and maybe a few members would be from other regions and therefore former members of other guilds, but no over arching hierarchy.
How does that work with the claims. Well it deliberately doesnt. The guilds and their membership would fight over rival guild claims to nearby ruins (for instance when a member from the kings men turns up with a claim to the haunted halls and the local guild also has a member yo that ruin).
Zhentil Keep might have its own guild, in fact each city of the moonsea would have its own guild as that region is not a unified nation (hillsfar would be an illegal guild since it doesnt like adventurers).
Some guilds might have a headquarters in the capital and then satellite lodges in each city. Others might just rent rooms in a local inn or meet at a wealthy members house.
Id definitely have more than a few have links to harpers (so they can recruit stupid adventurers to do their dirty work by posting a job). |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Oct 2016 : 20:53:47
Outwardly you can say that they are affiliated with The Heralds, and then only 'covertly' affiliated with The Harpers.
I would assume someone like Azoun would know the whole truth, and probably even some of the BBG's of the setting. However, just because someone like Szass Tam or Manshoon knows doesn't mean they'd bother to inform their underlings (because stupid ones might start fights or do other dumb things, and sometimes its better when you know your 'enemy's hand', but don't let him know you know).
You know, this might not be a bad idea for a DM's Guild project.
Also, established Inns in the Realms can have been bought by the coster and converted; in fact, in MY Realms 'The Way Inn' was the very first of these.
And if you were so inclined (I'm not), you could even place secret 'Gates' in the cellars, for certain senior Harpers to 'hop about', or even a particular room in the Inn, always reserved for them, where they can say a keyword and then transfer to the corresponding room in another Inn... but thats a wee bit OP for my tastes. Employees at the Inn would know that when a customer specifically requested 'room 7' (or whatever), they would know whats going on and cover for the missing person ("he just up and left in the middle of the night"). |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 29 Oct 2016 : 10:43:19
Thats exactlu what im thinking of. Ill check out the pathfinder stuff.
I might have to rewrite history a bit so that the kings men of cormyr are actually the guild (azoun is a secret member) and the knights of myth drannor were senior members of the guild in shadowdale. But it seems strange one does not exist already.
I just need a way to constrain the guilds to prevent them from taking over each country they are based in |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Oct 2016 : 10:35:03
In my Misbegotten Realms setting, I've taken the 'Adventurer's guild', merged it with the Pathfinder Society (my "Explorer's Society") from Golarion/Paizo, and then further added-in the some stuff from the Citybook series (by Flying Buffalo). In Citybook IV there is an example of an Inn that is a part of a chain of Inns, operated by a large mercantile coster. It has a tavern, stables, and even a small 'general store', and since they are all supposed to be very similar, you can use the one floorplan for all of them.
With my hybrid version, I made them into the local 'Pathfinder' houses as well, and the general store becomes an adventurer's supply shop. Thus, its something along the lines of Aurora's, but a little more grounded in reality (and ones in more civilized regions could even HAVE an Aurora's as part of it), as well as a lot more useful. Its more like a small (walled in rural areas) compound that provides all the services an adventuring group could need, including maps, guides, hirelings, and even a 'mysterious stranger' lurking at a corner table. 
Think of it as modern day style 'franchise' for a fantasy setting - like a medieval 'McDonald's' on steroids (or Motel 6). You can pick up all the local gossip there (naturally) as well as check-in with the guild/club/society.
*Pssssst* - and what most folks don't know is that it's owned and operated by The Harpers. The Mercantile Coster is a shell company set-up by Mirt. |
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