| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 01 Jul 2015 : 22:23:18
I am brainstorming ideas for adjusting the positions/alliances of the deities in my home campaign, but I have some related questions that I'm trying to reconcile, since I haven't stumbled upon any Lore surrounding these circumstances (I haven't read the Sundering novels yet, so that may be related to my ignorance on these subjects)...
1. Any ideas on how Cyric broke free of his imprisonment in the Supreme Throne?
I am considering making a connection between Ghaunadaur and Cyric in the game to somehow justify it (in part because of various threads on Ghaunadaur/Elemental Evil and Cyric/Tharzidun/Black Sun). Since Lolth failed in her Demonweave gambit, I am looking at the possibility of Cyric and Ghaunadaur replacing Lolth as the evil patrons of the Drow in the Realms. This positions them as the primary gods of Chaos, and creates some opportunities to explore the multi-planar nature of Chaos & the ancient Elemental Evils.
2. I remember reading something about Nishrek & the Banehold (Barrens of Doom & Despair) colliding in a 4th Edition event. Was there any resolution to this? Or is this a total fabrication?
If there is no official explanation, I am considering having BANE & Company(Hoar, Maglibuyet, Hruggek, and Loviatar) conquer the Orc Pantheon... possibly because of a betrayal by Shargaas. This would set up BANE as the main power behind the Orcs & Goblinoids, and the Zhentarim/Orcs/Hobgoblins as the Mercenary Legions of the East to battle Tiamat/Thay. BANE's previous attempts at conquering Faerun through the years have all failed. So, I want BANE and the Zhentarim to take a new approach by selling a new image of themselves as the force that has tamed the threat of the Orc & Goblin Hordes, and is going to "save" the West from the evil Dragons & Wizards of the East.
3. Did Shar's power subside after the Shade's were defeated, or is she still front & center of the Evil Deities?
I didn't particularly like having Shar at the forefront of the Evil Deities. With the return of Mask, I am considering having Shargaas and Set/Sseth/Merrshaulk (related to the betrayal of Shargaas mentioned above) seize control of Shar's portfolio and the Shadow Weave, and become the new primary gods of Evil. Thereby opening up some possibilities to explore the Ancient Empires & the Progenitor Races.
Basically, I want all of the deities to be back in play so-to-speak, but I also want the return of all the deities to serve as catalyst to shake-up the roles/alliances of the deities as well. I think it will seem a bit boring to have the events of the Sundering play out, all the deities return and compete over their place in the Tablets of Fate, and have it simply result in the resumption of the original Status Quo.
Please clarify or critique, anything and everything in this post... and by all means use this scroll to brainstorm more ideas on how you would rewrite the Tablets of Fate!
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Baltas |
Posted - 22 Oct 2015 : 11:10:47
The Mased Lady, if used, might be the best patron for Warlocks. Eilistraee was designed by Ed to be very Fey-like, and merged with her brother, she also represents the element of evil and darkness connected to Warlocks. That, and Eilistraee is confimed to be connected in some way to to Weave after her resurrection. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 21 Oct 2015 : 14:09:38
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
As part of the returned Mystra's effort to stabilize the Weave, she is creating her own divine alliance to make sure Shar & Cyric & Lolth don't try and usurp control of the Weave again. Here's what I have for magic schools & gods so far:
Abjuration - Deneir?
Conjuration - Shaundakul?
Divination - Savras
Enchantment - Sharess?
Evocation - Talos?
Illusion - Leira
Necromancy - Velsharoon
Transmutation - Finder?
Universal (all wizards) - Azuth
The deities with question marks next to their name are tenative, in some cases I may have to write something about why they've returned.
I had a similar idea except the rationale was to create a system where if the Goddess of Magic should die again the School gods could stabalise the weave before to much damage was done
Abjuration: Helm
Conjuration: No idea
Divination: Savras
Enchantment: Bane (Maybe)
Evocation: Portfolio split between the 4 Elemental gods
Illusion: Leira
Necromancy: Velshoon or Myrkul
Transmution: No idea (maybe Gond, Transmutation has alot of creating stuff or maybe Ilmater as it also seems to have quite a bit of healing under Master Transmuter)
also have an idea where Helms reborn church, Paladin orders and Monks have an Anti-outsider agenda and that Helm is Torils Guardian and his followers work to banish Outsiders (regardless of Alignment) from the prime and close gates and portals that lead to the Outerplanes
Bards: Milli
Sorceror: Maybe Talos (as he did try and claim wild magic after the ToT
Warlocks: Gargauth or Maybe Shar
Wizards: Azuth
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| Baltas |
Posted - 21 Oct 2015 : 08:32:28
Also, speaking of Warhammer, one could link Myrkul to Nagash. Nagash is as outright theorized to be inspired by Vecna, but is more similar to Myrkul in background, being a prince.
Nagash is also a manipulative genius, his crown is an artifact, and in Age of Sigmar, he ascended to become the God of Death and Dead.
The Old Ones/Slann from both Warhammer Fantasy and 40,000 also show similarities to Batrachi and Slaadi.
Like Batrachi, the Old Ones had hands in creating other younger races, and were specialized in portal magic. Both were also amphibian in form.
The Slann are probably defendants of the Old Ones, although the End Times scenario, suggested that the Slann are both creations/defendants of the Slann, as well as the future Old Ones in the next/world universe.
Not to mention, the creator races, are also sometimes known as "The Old Ones".
Warhammer 40,000 curiously in some sources, also suggested the Old Ones were not a single amphibian species (the Slann), but probably several ancient species similarly to The Creator Races... |
| Baltas |
Posted - 11 Oct 2015 : 11:34:33
Also, about Myrkul, he was tied to Vecna, a few times, in articles by Eric L. Boyd, for example with the Eye of Vecna becoming The Eye of Myrkul in the Realms. Both are from ancient cultures(Myrkul Murghom/Imaskar for Myrkul and Flan for Vecna), with Hammito-Semetic and Indian ties(Flan are in part based on the Berber, but also had the untouchable caste durig the time of Vecna).
Although Vecna rose from very humble beginings, being a member of the mentioned above untouchable caste, while Myrkul was the crown prince of Murghom.
[EDIT]
Also, some time ago Cyrinishad proposed Lolth is the same as Graz'zt. There definitely are similarities between the two. But maybe both are aspects of Slaanesh from Warhammer? Slaanesh has similarities to both Graz'zt and Lolth. While Lolth or Graz'zt doesn't devour thetr worshippers souls as Slaanesh, Lolth did seemingly devour most of her petitioners and demons serving her during her ascension as recorded in the War of the Spider Queen series.
In turn, Mephala from The Elder Scrolls series, resembles both Lolth and Slaanesh... |
| Baltas |
Posted - 05 Oct 2015 : 08:11:23
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
That's a great observation Baltas... It adds to one of the ideas I've speculating about the Abyss. The idea that perhaps the Abyss generates an Echo of everything in the Multiverse. So if Demogorgon is an Echo of Corellon, and Orcus is an Echo of Gruumsh, perhaps Lolth is actually an Echo of Araushnee.
Yeah, that's an interesting idea, especialy that the Demonomicon, compared the Abyss to infection, or cancer of the multiverse. This may be why the Abyss has infinte planes - it's a counterbalance to the rest of the multivverse. In The Dark Eye there is an interesting idea that each Archdemon, if a dark reflection of one of the main 12 gods. While some seem to be sprouted out nowere as dark counterparts, other are more complex. Like the Archdemoness Charyptoroth, is the corrupted sister of the water and storm god Efferd.
In the same way Graz'zt could be seen as Asmodeus' Abyssal counterpart, as his three realms were even mockingly called the little Nine Hells by his opponents. And Graz'zt may be Asmodeus' son with Pale Night. Pale Night herself, might be an even more evil counterpart of Shar. But With her, it may be more complex, as the Demonomicon suggests Pale Night is much older than the current multiverse. So maybe the both Selune and Shar(as the twin goddess Shar-Selune?) were orignally created by the multiverse as a reaction, and defence mechanism against the great evil of Pale Night?
About Araushnee and Lolth, there is an Drow legend, that Araushnee absorbed a Dark Elf witch, that dabbled in Unseelie magic, in order to stop the evil dark elf witch. The dark elf witch, is now only known as The Spider Queen. Maybe Araushnee originally absorbed her Abyssal reflection(The Spider Queen), in order to to stop her, but got corrupted overtime, and became the Lolth we know? |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 04 Oct 2015 : 16:01:25
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
Well, since we're on the topic of Velsharoon & Myrkul...
I was looking through the ol' AD&D Monster Mythology, and was thinking that maybe the thing to do is have Velsharoon stay "dead", and have the returned Myrkul take his portfolios... and have Myrkul actually be Mellifleur.
...and maybe have the returned Bhaal actually be Kanchelsis.
So, if I can think of one more (instead of BANE) it could be the "Undead Three" this time around.
That'd be one hell of a demotion for Myrkul, not to mention the conflation with poor Mellifleur.
A lot of this seems really random. Myrkul was worshiped by necromancers, but he wasn't a god of necromancy or undeath. Bhaal has virtually nothing in common with Kanchelsis in backstory, portfolio or personality. The whole undead trio thing just doesn't work, not unless you drastically rework the Dark Three's personalities, but at that point you're just dealing with some dudes named Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul, not the actual deities Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul.
A lich god and a vampire god work, thematically, with Big V, Big M and Kanchy, because their backstories and personalities both tie into the behavior typically attributed to liches and vampires (and, in Big M's case, subverts it entirely). Myrkul isn't even remotely close to being a deity for undead scholars and has no interest in undeath and the undead barring how they can be used to further his goals. Bhaal's only connection to vampirism is that he ruled the Throne of Blood.
Bane has his baneliches, but that's about it.
This scroll is intended to be a brainstorming scroll, so some of what is contained in it will be somewhat random. I've posted many ideas that I have subsequently dropped...
The ideas I'm kicking around in my head about Bhaal and Myrkul are primarily related to the concept that BANE & Kelemvor are at odds with Jergal and the returned Bhaal and Myrkul. BANE thinks that the entities that have returned to the Realms and have been permitted by Jergal to assume the names of Bhaal and Myrkul, are not the same entities that BANE was originally allied with...
What are your ideas for entities that could assume the divine titles of Bhaal and Myrkul? |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 04 Oct 2015 : 11:37:23
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
Well, since we're on the topic of Velsharoon & Myrkul...
I was looking through the ol' AD&D Monster Mythology, and was thinking that maybe the thing to do is have Velsharoon stay "dead", and have the returned Myrkul take his portfolios... and have Myrkul actually be Mellifleur.
...and maybe have the returned Bhaal actually be Kanchelsis.
So, if I can think of one more (instead of BANE) it could be the "Undead Three" this time around.
That'd be one hell of a demotion for Myrkul, not to mention the conflation with poor Mellifleur.
A lot of this seems really random. Myrkul was worshiped by necromancers, but he wasn't a god of necromancy or undeath. Bhaal has virtually nothing in common with Kanchelsis in backstory, portfolio or personality. The whole undead trio thing just doesn't work, not unless you drastically rework the Dark Three's personalities, but at that point you're just dealing with some dudes named Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul, not the actual deities Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul.
A lich god and a vampire god work, thematically, with Big V, Big M and Kanchy, because their backstories and personalities both tie into the behavior typically attributed to liches and vampires (and, in Big M's case, subverts it entirely). Myrkul isn't even remotely close to being a deity for undead scholars and has no interest in undeath and the undead barring how they can be used to further his goals. Bhaal's only connection to vampirism is that he ruled the Throne of Blood.
Bane has his baneliches, but that's about it. |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 03 Oct 2015 : 04:46:42
That's a great observation Baltas... It adds to one of the ideas I've speculating about the Abyss. The idea that perhaps the Abyss generates an Echo of everything in the Multiverse. So if Demogorgon is an Echo of Corellon, and Orcus is an Echo of Gruumsh, perhaps Lolth is actually an Echo of Araushnee. |
| Baltas |
Posted - 02 Oct 2015 : 09:41:21
Also, something I have for some time on my mind, are some similarities between Corellon and Demogorgon. Both are paragons of their kind (elves and demons), both are chaotic, both are dual-gendered/hermaphroditic, both had a gigantic falling out with their consorts (Corellon with Lolth, Demogorgon with Shami-Amurae), Corellon archenemy(well, one of them) is Gruumsh, god of orcs, while Demogorgon's is Orcus.
Of course, obviously, Demogorgon and Corellon aren't the same being. But they possibly may be reflections of each-other... |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 03:58:18
Thanks, Wooly. I was reading up on Ravenloft today, and I actually didn't realize that both Kas & Soth are potentially trapped in Ravenloft as well... I knew that they weren't deities, I was considering incorporating a named villain from outside of the Realms, but I didn't have a clear concept of how Ravenloft functioned... I'm going to have to do a lot more reading before I go anywhere near incorporating any of Ravenloft's material.
Fortunately, they weren't my top choices. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 23:26:36
Strahd is not a deity, and he does not rule the Demiplane of Fear -- unless they've made some radical changes to the setting, since I last looked.
Strahd is very, very powerful, particularly within the domain of Barovia -- but that's just one domain among many in Ravenloft. And despite his power, he's still a prisoner, there.
Additionally, I don't recall him having much interest in anything beyond his own borders. He exists to rule his domain, feed, and to try to get back with his beloved Tatyana. |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 20:58:01
...now that the returned Bhaal and Myrkul are pretty well squared away in my head, the question is: Who takes BANE's position in the trio?
I want to make sure that the third spot is an undead power, to stick with the switch from the "Dead Three" to the "Undead Three"... and I want the third to be distinct in style aside from Mummy or Lich, which is why I was leaning toward a vampire (but there are certainly other possibilities). I'm not against incorporating powers or villains from other settings either, so here are some of the names on my list at the moment:
- Kanchelsis
- Strahd von Zarovich (since BANE had Fear in his portfolio, and Strahd rules the Demiplane of Fear)
- Kas
- Lord Soth (not vampiric, but fits the Tyranny aspect of BANE)
- Shargaas (His symbols are the Bat & a Crescent Blood Moon... I suspect Shargaas may be a vampiric deity... Using him would require me to rethink my previous Ghaunadaur concept, but that concept isn't set in stone yet anyway...)
- Iyachtu Xvim (not vampiric, but if I drop my previous Iyachtu/Ibrandul concept... Iyachtu Xvim could be conceptualized as a type of Revenant Deity, returned with the sole purpose of killing his father)
The Shaargas & Iyachtu Xvim concepts seem strongest to me at the moment, and don't require multiverse overlap.
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| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 15:48:55
 ...That's a great idea, and the it was literally staring me in the face the whole time! In ancient near-east myhtology Baal was originally a god of storms, but was later adopted into egyptian mythology. When adopted into egyptian myth, he was killed and resurrected (similar to Osiris)... BUT, because he was a god of storms, he was associated with Egypts original god of storms... The one that Assassinated Osiris: SETH. Therefore, SETH or SET = BAAL or BHAAL.
...And, BAAL's symbols in mythology are the Bull & the Cedar Tree. Which creates another parallel with the storyline I established for BANE/Gilgamesh. Because, this would make Bhaal/Set the second monster in the Gilgamesh Epic that tries to destroy him after he gets through the Cedar Forest, the Bull... Awesome. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 05:33:06
Have him be some form of 'Ancient dead' (Mummy). It works for someone who was part of an 'assassin religion'. I don't know of any offhand, but that doesn't mean you can't create one.
EDIT: Something LIKE THIS, maybe. |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 13:13:03
Well, since we're on the topic of Velsharoon & Myrkul...
I was looking through the ol' AD&D Monster Mythology, and was thinking that maybe the thing to do is have Velsharoon stay "dead", and have the returned Myrkul take his portfolios... and have Myrkul actually be Mellifleur.
...and maybe have the returned Bhaal actually be Kanchelsis.
So, if I can think of one more (instead of BANE) it could be the "Undead Three" this time around. |
| Irennan |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 19:17:02
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
Right, thanks Wooly. Didn't he get killed somehow? Or am I confusing myself?
With the Sundering, he's likely back. It hasn't been explicitly stated yet, though. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 18:19:31
Actually, he's been dead for quite some time. 
Sorry, couldn't resist. |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 12:09:26
Right, thanks Wooly. Didn't he get killed somehow? Or am I confusing myself? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 03:38:09
Velsharoon already covers necromancy. |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 05 Sep 2015 : 18:33:31
Most of this scroll has focused on musings regarding the "evil" deities of the setting, so I'm going to try and switch gears over to the "good" deities...
I'm sure some of this stuff has been brought up in other scrolls, but regardless here some of the questions running through my head about how to handle some of the "good" deities in my home campaign:
1. Is there any firmly established lore about Torm while he was a mortal?
I think Torm & Bane were both mortals during the same time period. So, I want to try and figure out some kind of plausible history between Torm & Bane while they were mortals to justify why they became such bitter rivals.
2. Some schools of magic are part of divine portfolios, and some aren't. I'd like to have every school of magic established in a divine portfolio... Which gods should get what?
As part of the returned Mystra's effort to stabilize the Weave, she is creating her own divine alliance to make sure Shar & Cyric & Lolth don't try and usurp control of the Weave again. Here's what I have for magic schools & gods so far:
Abjuration - Deneir?
Conjuration - Shaundakul?
Divination - Savras
Enchantment - Sharess?
Evocation - Talos?
Illusion - Leira
Necromancy - Velsharoon
Transmutation - Finder?
Universal (all wizards) - Azuth
The deities with question marks next to their name are tenative, in some cases I may have to write something about why they've returned. |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 31 Aug 2015 : 21:03:52
Great point Sleyvas, so here are some more stories to empower our favorite lady of the mists... I decided I'm going to drop Kiaransalee & Sseth from my previous concept for Ghaunadaur & Shargaas. I had forgotten that Lolth had supposedly subsumed the rest of the Drow Pantheon, so I'm going to stick with that lore. And there has been some conjecture about the status of Sseth, so he's getting benched until I get that figured out.
The multiverse lore we've created in this scroll about the return of BANE has established that BANE definitely returned to the Realms through Iyachtu Xvim. But, what if the vision that was sent to Iyachtu's clerics wasn't quite the entire story... just after the conclusion of the vision, the returned BANE gazes down upon the charred body of Xvim... he sees one of Xvim's hands move slightly and a sinister grin appears on BANE's face.
This idea is still very much in the early formative phases, but here's what I'm thinking at the moment:
There is one power in the realms that has been noted repeatedly as having a compatible view of the multiverse with BANE, and is noted as the one most likely to collaborate with him and is supposedly pleased by BANE's return, yet hasn't had any explicit instances of cooperation: KOSSUTH.
Let's consider this... Kossuth is repeatedly referenced regarding the Avatar Crisis as being Missing in Action, and is noted as being pleased by the return of BANE. What if Kossuth (since he's a Primordial) found a way to get to Abeir or the City of Brass during the Avatar Crisis... and found the real BANE waiting for him there? ...OR maybe Kossuth was BANE's patron deity, while BANE was a mortal... Either way, they make a deal, Kossuth gets Abeir and becomes the Ruler of the Primordials and BANE gets Toril and becomes the Ruler of the Gods... all they have to do is get BANE back to Toril.
Kossuth's key divine concepts are "purification through fire" "renewal" & "suffering"... Iyachtu was consumed by green fire in the vision when BANE returned. What if Kossuth made sure the fire only brought Iyachtu to the brink of death, as a sort of purification ritual to test Iyachtu's loyalty to his father?
If we go with the identity of Iyachtu's unnamed Tanar'ri mother as Lolth. BANE could reward his son's loyalty by telling Iyachtu that just as it is BANE's destiny to Rule all Worlds; it is Iyachtu's destiny to bring the Green Flame of Order & Rule the dominions that his mother has corrupted with Chaos and is under seige by demons of the Abyss: The Underdark. Hence, IYACHTU is purified and reborn as IBRANDUL.
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| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 21:03:06
Well, that was sorta the point of my 'Monkey' story I posted.
He is literally the 'god of rules-breaking'. A god has absolute power within his domain, and his domain is not following the rules. Even Ao can't control him because of that (because Ao is also part of those rules).
Basically, as been stated before, here and elsewhere, a god IS their portfolio - there is no separating the two. They are a sentient manifestation of the concept.
So yeah, if Leira can find something in her portfolio that allows her to bend the rules, then by all means, she would. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 20:28:48
And Leira is really the goddess of stories, and all this furious pontification has just given her the power to re-manifest herself... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 19:49:28
I take that as Ptah being the Overgod of (D&D) Earth. 
I picture it being more like the CEO of one corporation calling up another and saying, "Listen, we gotta talk. How about a round of golf on Tuesday?"
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 17:04:27
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That limitation is explicitly spelled out for Celestian, who is a god of space. It is not even hinted at for Ptah.
Hmm, so it does. Guess I was misremembering (I only skimmed it enough to get the page number). That said, I went to check what Powers and Pantheons had to say on the matter, and it describes how Ao summoned Ptah and sent him back to the pantheons of the Mulan peoples to bring them into the sphere, which doesn't sound like the kind of thing one would do with an overlord. :)
Jeff
A fair point.
Though even that's spinnable... Ao "summoning" Ptah could have been something along the lines of me sending my boss an email -- it's contacting him and requesting a response, but not forcing him to appear before me. One of the definitions of summon is "to call people to attend."
So Ao asked his boss to reach out to the powers of another sphere, because Ao himself has no influence at all beyond Realmspace.
Again, I'm not saying that it's canon that Ao answers to Ptah; there's not even a canon implication that that is the case. I'm just saying that existing lore could support the idea, and that in my opinion, it's a stronger case than could be made for any other known multispheric powers.
Personally, while I don't dislike Ao, I don't have a use for him -- he's really just the ultimate MacGuffin. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 11:28:31
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That limitation is explicitly spelled out for Celestian, who is a god of space. It is not even hinted at for Ptah.
Hmm, so it does. Guess I was misremembering (I only skimmed it enough to get the page number). That said, I went to check what Powers and Pantheons had to say on the matter, and it describes how Ao summoned Ptah and sent him back to the pantheons of the Mulan peoples to bring them into the sphere, which doesn't sound like the kind of thing one would do with an overlord. :)
Jeff |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 04:14:04
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If I was going to focus on who Ao answered to, I'd go for Ptah, myself... Because in Spelljammer lore, he's the one deity that is "universal" -- his clerics can receive spells in all spheres. Almost all other powers are limited to just one sphere... And his followers believe that he created all of the crystal spheres.
So, for my money, if I had to name Ao's boss, it would be Ptah.
YMMV, of course.
Actually, Ptah isn't the only one who can grant spells in all crystal spheres. Greyhawk's Celestian can as well (see CGR1 Complete Spacefarer's Handbook, p.83). Neither can do so on terrestrial worlds where the church hasn't been established (Toril, for example), however.
Jeff
That limitation is explicitly spelled out for Celestian, who is a god of space. It is not even hinted at for Ptah. |
| AuldDragon |
Posted - 29 Aug 2015 : 03:23:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If I was going to focus on who Ao answered to, I'd go for Ptah, myself... Because in Spelljammer lore, he's the one deity that is "universal" -- his clerics can receive spells in all spheres. Almost all other powers are limited to just one sphere... And his followers believe that he created all of the crystal spheres.
So, for my money, if I had to name Ao's boss, it would be Ptah.
YMMV, of course.
Actually, Ptah isn't the only one who can grant spells in all crystal spheres. Greyhawk's Celestian can as well (see CGR1 Complete Spacefarer's Handbook, p.83). Neither can do so on terrestrial worlds where the church hasn't been established (Toril, for example), however.
Jeff |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Aug 2015 : 19:59:27
And now I feel I must quote myself, from an old thread...
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Somewhere, in a place outside of time, a meeting occurs…
Ao had gathered together all of the powers represented in Realmspace. After much deliberation, he let his edict be known. The Gods of Faerûn would be cast out of the Heavens, and would be made to walk upon the green world of Toril as mortals do. Such was his ruling, and so it was passed, and the powers of the Faerûnian Pantheon were removed from the chamber (if such a place could be described thusly) to meet out his sentence. He cast his gaze about, at the various members of the other human pantheons. “I am sorry; although you have done no wrong I must pass this judgment upon thee as well. Think it not a punishment; for the others have gone before thee, and although their might is greatly diminished, still they possess power anon to bring much suffering to thine own followers. Go now, so as to protect your people.” Fate, Maztica, and the Celestial Emperor (amongst others) simply bowed their heads, excepting judgment, and then they and their troupe also vanished. Turning to the non-human pantheons, he saw smug expressions on several faces. “Do not think that ye hath avoided their fate, for you too shall be sent to the world, until such a time when all have learned of humility”. Both Gruumsh and Moradin shot from their seats, but it was the clear, regal voice of Corellon Larethian that cut through the din. “You have NO right….” he began, but Ao merely arched his eyebrow in response and interrupted him. “No RIGHT? By the Ancient Accords I have EVERY RIGHT!” his voice booming off the walls of the extra-dimensional chamber. “You will each provide me with a manifestation, and then retire the remainder of your being to your own domains. The manifestations will be sent amongst your followers, and you will know what it is like to live as they. The core of your being will still be able to access any other worshippers you may have elsewhere, but all conduits, gates, portals, and connections from your realms to Abeir-Toril will be severed until further notice; and know ye this – if anyone of you attempts to enter within 100 Kilometers of the planet’s surface, I will hold you in violation of The Accords!” Opening his mouth, it looked as if Corellon was about to speak again, but Ao once again interrupted him. “And if ANY of you deem this unfair… I will simply summon the tribunal…”, and with those few words all murmuring in the room ceased. One by one, the leaders of each pantheon bowed their heads in acquiescence and disappeared. Looking about, Ao saw that there were only two beings remaining in Cynosure. Looking at the one seated in close proximity to where the Celestial Bureaucracy once stood, he addressed him, “And why are YOU still here?”. The furry, amused looking fellow got up and stated flatly “This whole thing sounds boring, and I don’t DO boring”. If Ao had a physical body, his face would have turned red with rage. “YOU DARE?!” he boomed, the very ground and walls quaking with the sound. “You will relinquish your power to me at once and travel to Toril with the others…”. The being known simply as Mad Monkey, looking around at the still quivering domain, turned to Ao. The corner of his mouth was pulled up in an amused smile, and with a snap of his fingers he stated flatly “no”, and with that he too vanished. Ao continued to stare at the spot Monkey last stood, his eyes narrowing. Suddenly Ptah, the sole remaining power in the room other the Ao, spoke “You are going to have big problems with that one, old friend”. Staring deep into the twin pools of infinite blackness that were the eyes of Ptah, Ao allowed his face a sad smile “Aye”. Ptah chuckled ruefully and faded from sight. Shaking his head wistfully, Ao made to go back to the business of ruling reality. Turning one last time to the spot Monkey had stood defiantly, he whispered “Aye… indeed”.
A bit over-the-top, but I wanted to capture folks attention when I detailed the Celestial Beauracracey (and yes, Ao does sound a wee bit too much like Elminster).
That was from a thread about Monkeys here at the keep, way back in '08. Can't believe I am still tinkering with the pantheon all these years.  |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 26 Aug 2015 : 15:56:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
...as for the other "dead" gods that have returned, I have started considering making a connection to a certain god that may fit well as the power that AO answers to... ANUBIS.
If I was going to focus on who Ao answered to, I'd go for Ptah, myself... Because in Spelljammer lore, he's the one deity that is "universal" -- his clerics can receive spells in all spheres. Almost all other powers are limited to just one sphere... And his followers believe that he created all of the crystal spheres.
So, for my money, if I had to name Ao's boss, it would be Ptah.
YMMV, of course.
Wooly, you make a really good point about Ptah... It got me thinking that perhaps AO wasn't speaking to a "superior" at the end of the Avatar Crisis, but more of a partner in a cosmic agreement...
In some ways Toril could be seen as being set-up to function as a place to create unique deities while being shielded by AO from most divine conflicts in the Multiverse.
Anubis was at risk of fading from existence when Osiris took his portfolio. But, maybe Ptah and Anubis realized that the Ancient gods were dying out faster than new gods were being created. And they both saw the risks of dead gods floating through the Ethereal, they could be turned into resources for godless races like the Githyanki, or turned into undead gods, and there would be nothing to insulate the Multiverse from the influence of the Elder Evils. As Ethereal powers they may have been the only deities that could foresee the scope of the threat and realized that even gods needed to guardians.
Ptah assumes the role of creating more divinities, and Anubis assumes the role of guarding the dead divinities. So, it's conceivable that AO is actually Ptah... Hence his ability to convince the Ancient gods to send their Avatars to Toril as the Untheric and Mulhorandi pantheons. |
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