| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Riley37 |
Posted - 12 Jun 2015 : 10:05:38
If a PC joins the Harpers, at what point do the Harpers issue that PC a Harper Pin? The Lesser Pin works as a Ring of Mind Shielding; the Greater Pin has further enchantments.
I am also asking in the general forum, as lore, but curious how you would rule if the PC lost their Pin:
What happens if someone takes a Harper Pin from the Harper to whom it was issued?
Does the Harper Pin have an enchantment which causes it to self-destruct if the owner dies?
What happens if the Pin is physically separated from its still-living owner, eg, the owner takes a bath, and then someone steals all the bather's clothing and bags, including the pin?
Self-destruct on separation would be ideal for security, but dang, that's expensive to replace, or inconvenient if the Harper was on a mission and far from anyone who would recognize them personally and confirm that they're authorized for a replacement pin. |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Cyrinishad |
Posted - 22 Jun 2015 : 16:22:35
In an attempt to get this topic back on track, and away from the "Edition Wars"...
It's important to remember that regardless of edition or game mechanics, the old adage "Nothing is Free" is especially true when it comes to dealing with Organizations in the Realms.
Regarding the original post questions... It's one of those things that is up to the discretion of the DM. My frame of reference on these things would be like an electronic Employee ID card. If an employee of company loses their ID they would be expected to report it to the organization immediately, otherwise the employee would have some level of culpability if their lost ID was misused to gain access to a building/resources/information or whatever else. Some companies require employees to pay for a replacement ID. Since the Harper Pin isn't cheap to replace, it wouldn't be unreasonable for the Harpers to require agents to pay for replacement Pins.
Also, the Harpers are a type of Secret Society... and even if there isn't any specific Lore on this, I think it would be entirely reasonable to have additonal verbal/physical/aesthetic ways of communicating to people that someone is truly a Harper beyond possession of a Harper Pin.
Finally, the "Magic Mouth" spell could be cast upon the Harper Pin when it is provided to an Agent. The spell could operate like a Car Alarm and literally trigger any time someone other than the specific Harper Agent that Pin is given to touches it, and/or if the Pin is moved some distance away from the Agent... Or it could be set to trigger anytime someone tries to impersonate a Harper Agent. It's a cheap 2nd level spell, and can last forever. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 21 Jun 2015 : 06:52:31
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
In 4e if you <duckspeak> you get a Harper Pin at 1st level. It <duckspeak>
4e? No wonder, really. 
Your personal view of the system is completely irrelevant to the fact that 1st level character can be apart of the Harpers and obtain a pin. Also, way to be constructive |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 21 Jun 2015 : 03:39:42
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
In 4e if you <duckspeak> you get a Harper Pin at 1st level. It <duckspeak>
4e? No wonder, really. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 20 Jun 2015 : 04:56:52
In 4e if you take the Harper theme you get a Harper Pin at 1st level. It provides an encounter feature of your choice and subsequent levels opens up additional options. |
| Xnella Moonblade-Thann |
Posted - 19 Jun 2015 : 22:21:36
@Wooly: I was using an example that not every freshly-rolled Lv.1 character can join...it can take years before enough trust is earned for a person to join. (I know the examples I used may not have been the best...I used characters I'm familiar with...I haven't read any of the other The Harpers novels to use other characters. And when Elfshadow was written, not even Elaine Cunningham herself knew what future events would bring other than Danilo was to someday be Khelben's successor, however that was to happen. Story plots change over time.) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Jun 2015 : 05:13:19
quote:
Originally posted by Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Some agents of the Harpers work for them for YEARS before being offered to formally join the ranks and given a Harper Pin...for example, Arilyn Moonblade and Danilo Thann both worked for the Harpers for quite some time (I'd imagine Danilo had less then a decade of Harper-sponsored tasks, while Arilyn had been doing such tasks for a couple of decades, at least).
I'm not sure that either of those is the best example... Danilo was Khelben's agent, and Khelben has been shown to be willing to play his own games. Even though the Harper Schism was years away when Elfshadow was written, it was already clear then that Khelben was more than happy to use non-Harpers to accomplish Harper goals.
So I'm honestly not sure Danilo was actually being groomed for the Harpers.
As for Arilyn, she was working for Kymil Nimesin, in kind of a black ops role for the Harpers. It's even explicitly stated in Elfshadow that the Harpers were uncomfortable with her reputation. They were comfortable with letting her accomplish certain tasks, but they were also happy to keep their own hands clean, in the process.
It was only their finding and unmasking of the Harper Assassin that put Arilyn enough in the Harpers' good graces for them to admit her (after Master Harper Bran Skorlson went and made it a fait accompli), and Danilo proved himself at the same time. Plus, he had the whole thing of being Khelben's likely successor going for him. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 16 Jun 2015 : 01:10:50
quote:
Originally posted by Riley37
So a first-level character can join the Harpers, and bam, they immediately get a magic item which works as Mind Shielding.
Yes. And even lowest-level drow nobles are literally wrapped in several layers of fairly strong quasimagic stuff. And human rich merchants and nobles without levels at all have stables and whatnot.
And the War Wizards of Cormyr...
So? Neither of these are murderhobos. They are agents of entities with lots of resources - that sponsor them, with very thick strings attached. |
| Xnella Moonblade-Thann |
Posted - 15 Jun 2015 : 23:26:44
Some agents of the Harpers work for them for YEARS before being offered to formally join the ranks and given a Harper Pin...for example, Arilyn Moonblade and Danilo Thann both worked for the Harpers for quite some time (I'd imagine Danilo had less then a decade of Harper-sponsored tasks, while Arilyn had been doing such tasks for a couple of decades, at least). And according to the 3.x D&D rules, you had to be about level 5-7 (or even as high as level 10!) to meet the prerequisites for most of the Harper prestige classes (and the same levels for the Moonstars/Tel'Teukiira prestige class...can't remember the names of the prestige classes for both...I'm away from my books at the moment). |
| Riley37 |
Posted - 13 Jun 2015 : 19:47:16
That makes sense. The 5E PHB makes it trivially easy to join, and I gather that the Code of the Harpers book has an appropriately higher bar for entry. Perhaps a "1 reknown Harper" in 5E terms is more like "a person who aspires to become a Harper, and the Harpers have an eye on that person to assess their suitability", in Code terms.
In which case, they would not only not feel ready to hand out an expensive pin to that aspirant... they might even be casting Detect Thoughts on the candidate from time to time, to verify that the person really does have a commitment and is ready for the role of service and isn't gonna lose the pin in their first week. (Because then the pin falls into the hands of some Zhentarim agent, and that's a hassle.)
Thanks, Hoondatha.
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| Hoondatha |
Posted - 13 Jun 2015 : 14:16:15
Well, possibly. But remember that when a Harper gives you their pin, they're personally vouching for you. That's not something they'd do unless they knew you really well, and that likely involves a good deal of time. And anyone who is joining because of the nifty magical item isn't someone the Harpers would want in the first place.
That said, we have seen examples of low-level, active Harper agents, with pins. Ed's Rangers Three comes to mind; I don't think they were more than level 3 or 4 at the start of Shadows of the Avatar. So yes, it's possible. |
| Riley37 |
Posted - 13 Jun 2015 : 14:00:05
So a first-level character can join the Harpers, and bam, they immediately get a magic item which works as Mind Shielding.
That's quite an incentive! |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 12 Jun 2015 : 14:56:41
Do you have the Code of the Harpers sourcebook? It has an entire chapter on joining the Harpers. Though that chapter deals more with the more organized Berdusk chapter. Anecdotally, from novels, the Shadowdale chapter (and more free-wheeling Harpers in general) will give their pins to someone they're sponsoring to join.
As for the pins themselves, they are never attuned to a specific person. So yes, this does open the door to them being lost, stolen, and otherwise appropriated by foes of the Harpers.
On the other hand, considering some of the powerful wizards, and the fact that half a dozen gods are personally interested in the group, carrying a stolen pin around may not be the safest thing for one to do... |
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