| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Portuguese D. Ace |
Posted - 02 Jun 2013 : 23:28:59
During last game-night, my group (the majority of the members holds a grudge with Netheril) tried to organize a small "raid" on Sakkors, to gather infos.
I don't have any useful "canon" infos about the city (Map, organizations, groups, churches, etc..)
I read something in Netheril Empire of Magic (2e), but I couldn't find useful informations, except those about Mythallars and quasi-magical items...
could you point out valid sources on how are the enclaves structured?
Thank you for your help |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 14:32:15
You intend to read all?
I'm no completionist, and I doggedly avoid certain races and characters, so I didn't bother reading some FR novels that feature them. |
| Portuguese D. Ace |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 13:53:10
Thank you Dennis.
I planned on reading all the FR novels in order of publication... so it should take me a while to get to this point :D |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 13:48:42
No prob. If you want to know the fate of all the princes in novels, I recommend you read those two series (The Return of the Archwizards by Troy Denning and The Twilight War by Paul S. Kemp). Paul also continues that series with his coming novel, Godborn, to be released this October. It still features the princes, most notably the Most High, Rivalen, Brennus, and yes, even Hadrhune who (even though a certain sourcebook says he's dead) is still very much alive. |
| Portuguese D. Ace |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 13:43:22
Oh, thank you!
I always assumed Telamont was included in the Prince List.
I was wrong :D
Unfortunately I'm not well-informed about Novels. Aside from Drizzt saga, I just began to read Darkwalker on Moonshae, 5 days ago.
I have TONS of books to read :)
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| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 13:41:28
Melegaunt, Escanor, and Malath were alive during 3E, so yes, there were twelve then. But they perished during the many wars in Return of the Archwizards (which heralded 3E).
I am not certain why they still mentioned Melegaunt in 4E. Perhaps it is some sort of a hint that he somehow survived and would return soon . . . |
| Portuguese D. Ace |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 13:28:54
Thank you for your swift reply, Dennis.
Could you be a bit more specific?
Are you saying that even in 3rd edition the 12 Princes were actually 11? (who's the deceased?)
In lord of darkness are listed: Telamont, (Hadrhune), Rivalen, Brennus, Clariburnus, Mattick, Vattick, Yder, Melegaunt, Lamorak, Dethud, Aglarel. Who's the 12th (after your comment... deceased, i suppose)?
In the 4th edition list the names are the same, with the addition of Faould... |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 13:24:10
I don't know any Fould.
No, Hadrhune is not a Tanthul.
Yes, there are twelve princes (if you still count the deceased). But no, Hadrhune is not part of that number.
The Twelve Princes of Shade
Rivalen
Clariburnus
Brennus
Mattick
Vattick
Yder
Melegaunt
Lamorak
Dethud
Algarel
Escanor
Malath
(The last two are not mentioned in Lords of Darkness. But they appeared in Return of the Archwizards.) |
| Portuguese D. Ace |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 13:16:53
Guys I'm sorry if I continuously unleash a barrage of questions, but the more I read about Netheril, the more everything becomes confused.
I just found the old description af all tanthul brothers in Lord of Darkness. I forgot they were all described there.
They are all epic. I like that version better.
The only things that bugs me is... what about princes' names? why do they change?
Who the hell is Faould Tanthul (mentioned in 4e campaign setting)?
Wasn't Hadrhune a Tanthul as well? (he should be dead after Anauroch: empire of shades events, but with shades... you never know)
And if Hadrhune wasn't a Prince as well, who the hell was the 12th prince in 3rd edition?.
I'm puzzled.
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| Portuguese D. Ace |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 17:07:25
(uh, another question... As of now, how many flying enclaves are functional? 3?
Shade, Sakkors and Kolthunral?) |
| Portuguese D. Ace |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 16:40:31
Yeah, I'll totally scale up Clariburnus & Co.
My players are in middle-paragon, and they are tough as nails.
Anyway I'll link my Sakkor raids with those interesting events near NW, I liked that chapter!
Thank you for the suggestion, Jeremy.
While we're still talking about it... do you have any suggestion on how to create a "believeable" Sakkors/ enclave?
I was specifically wondering about military organization/ religious setup/ hierarchy.
Should Sakkors be ruled by a Prince? By more-than-one of them? (maybe one of the least important brothers Brennus, Faould, Lamorak, Melegaunt, Mattick, Vattick? - I don't have much infos about them).
Due to the links between Sakkors and Sembia, I picture it as a metropolis swarming with merchants and caravans (mainly Shadow Caravans), like an enormous netherese trading post, full of informations and secrets...
But what about the cult of Shar? What about laborers and slaves?
As usual, thank you for your help!
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| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 15:27:08
That's caused some confusion with a couple other readers too. If I recall correctly, the idea was to scale Clariburnus' power level so he is a tough challenge for Heroic Level characters (characters in the 1-10 level range for 4th Edition D&D).
The idea was not to present a specific block of game statistics that define Clariburnus' maximum power level.
So DMs running 4th Edition D&D campaigns in the Paragon or Epic tier (levels 11-20 and 21-30, respectively) can adjust Clariburnus' power level accordingly if DMs want to have their players face Clariburnus. |
| Portuguese D. Ace |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 15:05:51
I just read the Neverwinter Campaign setting.
Interesting bits of information, thank you.
(needless to say i was shocked, seeing Prince Clariburnus' sheet: an elite 10? really? I always thought Princes were something like 19+ lvl...
are other princes low-leveled as Clariburnus?) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 12:27:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't believe there was a common structure for each enclave, since each one was a unique creation shaped in part by the whims of its creator. I'd expect that the mythallar would be towards the center of the enclave, but beyond that, it's pretty much how ever you want to lay it out.
Even if we did have maps from the 2E era, Sakkors was badly damaged in its fall, so Shade would have had to have rebuilt pretty much everything.
Except that Paul slightly deviated from prior lore. Sakkors, as well as its mythallar, was more or less intact when Rivalen and Brennus found it. Its restoration only took weeks. But that's because the Shadovar had competent crew.
Presently, it functions as Shade's "guard post" in Sembia. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 12:19:59
Read Twilight War trilogy by PSK. It has details on Sakkors from its retrieval to its restoration. |
| Portuguese D. Ace |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 10:01:25
Thank you for your help!
I'll take a look at Neverwinter campaign setting right now! |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 07:05:25
The Neverwinter Campaign Setting devotes about a page and a half to the Kolthunral enclave.
Not Sakkors, obviously, but some of Kolthunral's attributes (steel underside, meteor tubes, labyrinth-like nature) could be fun for your players to experience.
EDIT: There is also a section that discusses what happens if Kolthunral's mythallar is destroyed by PCs. The part about building drama as PCs try to escape as the city plummets sounds like it would be fun to play, and should be applicable to any Netherese enclave. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Jun 2013 : 04:16:12
I don't believe there was a common structure for each enclave, since each one was a unique creation shaped in part by the whims of its creator. I'd expect that the mythallar would be towards the center of the enclave, but beyond that, it's pretty much how ever you want to lay it out.
Even if we did have maps from the 2E era, Sakkors was badly damaged in its fall, so Shade would have had to have rebuilt pretty much everything. |
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