| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Cbad285 |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 12:34:44
I have a player who wants to become an Avariel...
He's a High Elf at the moment. A good portion of his character has been wrapped up in these Avariel's and considering how much time he's put into pursuing this endeavor, I'm obliged to work with him on this.
So here's my question. If he polymorphs himself into an Avariel, will he be able to produce offspring (Providing he does so with an actual Avariel) with wings, hollow bones so on and so forth?
PS - My only education on this matter being Salvatore's description of the pick in Homeland that turned into a Hook Horror really isn't shedding much light on this matter.
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| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 21:40:06
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I think the goal of that event was to show that Pharaun helped someone without expecting anything in return, a drow helping another, and it surprised everyone in the group. He thought that Valas was an important asset to the team, and he helped him out, for free. That showed that despite their chaotic evil nature, they were coming along... up until it all crashed and burned soon after.
Not a great chapter, but it didn't bug me nearly as much as so many other stuff in the series.
My problem wasn't the application of the spell to work around the issue -- my problem was that the spell is a semi-permanent fix for something that could kill Valas, if he gets into the wrong situation, like the polymorph being dispelled when he's far from water. He was literally hit with something life-threatening, but after putting a Band-Aid across it, everyone forgot about it, including, apparently, Valas himself. That's what bugs me -- the introduction of a plot element that was then left dangling. |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 21:02:48
I think the goal of that event was to show that Pharaun helped someone without expecting anything in return, a drow helping another, and it surprised everyone in the group. He thought that Valas was an important asset to the team, and he helped him out, for free. That showed that despite their chaotic evil nature, they were coming along... up until it all crashed and burned soon after.
Not a great chapter, but it didn't bug me nearly as much as so many other stuff in the series. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 20:49:01
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
The second time was on Valas Hune during the War of the spider queen serie. He was changed permanently into an aquatic creature by an aboleth, and Pharaun used a polymorph spell to change him back. He also warned him that a simple dispel would change him back into an aquatic creature, as it was now officially his default form.
That was one of the things that bugged me about that series... So he gets transformed into something else, a single spell gives a semi-permanent fix... and then that was it. I really should have like to have seen something more about seeking a permanent fix. Dropping it the way they did made it a waste of page count. |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 20:08:26
I can remember this happening twice in novels. The first was a deep gnome that was changed into a hook horror during Drizzt exile into the underdark. It could barely remember its previous life, and was now cursed to not just look like a monster, but also believe to be one
The second time was on Valas Hune during the War of the spider queen serie. He was changed permanently into an aquatic creature by an aboleth, and Pharaun used a polymorph spell to change him back. He also warned him that a simple dispel would change him back into an aquatic creature, as it was now officially his default form. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 18:50:12
Oh, did look at 2nd. Polymorph other is permanent (until dispelled) quote:
When the polymorph occurs, the creature's equipment, if any, melds into the new form (in particularly challenging campaigns, the DM may allow protective devices, such as a ring of protection, to continue operating effectively). The creature retains its mental abilities, including spell use, assuming the new form allows completion of the proper verbal and somatic components and the material components are available. Creatures not used to a new form might be penalized at the DM's option (for example, -2 to attack rolls) until they practice sufficiently to master it.
When the physical change occurs, there is a base 100% chance that the subject's personality and mentality change into that of the new form (i.e., a roll of 20 or less on 1d20). For each 1 point of Intelligence of the subject, subtract 1 from the base chance on 1d20. Additionally, for every Hit Die of difference between the original form and the form it is assuming, add or subtract 1 (depending on whether polymorphed form has more Hit Dice [or levels] or fewer Hit Dice [or levels] than original, respectively). The chance for assumption of the personality and mentality of the new form is checked daily until the change takes place.
A subject acquiring the mentality of the new form has effectively become the creature whose form was assumed and comes under the control of the DM until recovered by a wish spell or similar magic. Once this final change takes place, the creature acquires the new form's full range of magical and special abilities.
So use of that spell clearly can work, one just has a avoid being dispelled.
Oh should add this. quote:
The wizard can use a dispel magic spell to change the polymorphed creature back to its original form, and this requires a system shock roll. Those who have lost their individuality and are then converted back maintain the belief that they are actually the polymorphed creature and attempt to return to that form.
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 10:46:38
I completely forgot about the high magic ritual from Cormanthor, if i remember rightly didnt the survivors of Myth Drannors wars use it to transform themselves into sea elves in large numbers (for elves anyway).
They didnt seem to suffer any ill effects (mental or physical) from the transformation. Im guessing an elf is an elf no matter the subrace. In much the same way that if you were permanently changed by magic from being european to chinese you would be fine once you learned the new customs and language etc.
They would probably always be regarded as outsiders by the true born avariel (assuming they know about the ritual) but im betting the children would be welcomed as normal. |
| Cbad285 |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 08:00:00
Great answers guys!
As for the edition here, I play 2.5
But the post above me works perfect. And seeing as how my campaign is set in the dales its easily adapted. I'm going with the ritual in this case...However, I still wonder on the affect of Polymorph under the rules for 2.5
If he did polymorph himself into an avariel, what would be the outcome considering mentality and offspring. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 23:54:02
There is elven High Magic that can do this. The 2nd ed Cormanthyr book details several High Magic rituals, including one called "Life of Duty, Form of the People's Need" which can transform one type of elf into another physically, and is permanent until death or reversal of the ritual. The changed elf is of the same age-category (ex: middle-aged gold elf to sea elf is still middle-aged, but life-span is shorter) and takes on all benefits and drawbacks of the new elf-race. It should be noted that the change can only be done twice on the same elf, and only once every 300 years. Otherwise, it turns the elf into the new race in all but mind, as he still has the same mentality and identity of his old race rather tahn the new one.
This should be just what you're looking for, and has the bonus of being ripe for a quest to EARN it!! Or it could also be the start of an adventure involving the Avariels themselves, with lots of flight and arial combat or toehr situations, as it is usualy reserved for important missions where the recipient must perform some major task requiring the new form. (Like a major quest that requires turning a Moon elf into a Sea elf to aid an undersea kingdom, or the like.) Using it as a way to psosibly aid an Avariel clan could not only grant his request, but also be a good way to involve the other players, via use of borrowed flight-related items, or flying mounts. Perhaps they could be seeking out the last remaining Avariel city, (detailed in Races of Faerun) The Aerie, and must deliver a message or relic of great importance. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 22:30:35
If said ritual had a cost in material components equal to 27,500 gp, it would be the same cost as buying a magical item that grants a wish*. You may be able to cut the cost to 19,250 gp if it was a ritual that only elves could use.
* Assuming you are using 3.5 or Pathfinder rules. |
| EytanBernstein |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 21:37:23
Sounds like a wish or miracle is in order. I don't think you can achieve that sort of permanent change short of seeking help from a higher power. Alternatively, maybe there is some sort of ritual that is lost that could be performed. |
| idilippy |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 15:43:51
Hmm, on the d20srd I'm showing Polymorph at a 1 minute per level duration, assuming 3.5e is what system you are using. Polymorph any Object looks to be permanent if the change is subtle enough, though it is an 8th level spell. However, even then Polymorph any Object is able to be dispelled, it has a permanent not an instantaneous duration.
In this specific case, with an elf wanting to become an Avariel completely, I would want the intercession of a Wish or Miracle spell to make it a permanent change. Perhaps the change is a reward from Aerdrie Faenya if he accomplishes something major that benefits the Avariel people. That can be a quest hook for a mighty adventure, if the game is such that other PCs won't mind a side trek to accomplish what is primarily the goal of one PC. If he sticks to just Polymorph any Object for a permanent (but removable) change I would rule that his genetic elven traits still pass on. That said, in my games children are in the PCs hands. Which traits pass on, how those traits manifest, the gender, and when it happens is all up to the PCs involved. I don't feel it adds to the game to have me dictate to them how their childbearing goes. So even if the option of a quest to become an Avariel isn't feasible, if a PC of a polymorphed elf wanted the Avariel traits to pass on without more than superficial traits from the PC's genes that would be ok by me. |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 15:25:09
I dunno, I see a distinction between physical traits and genetic. I think it would be fair to assume that the genetic of a polymorphed creature remains unchanged, like whatever a True Seeing spell is detecting. As for dragons, their magic might be different, the nature of the spell is the same, isn't it? |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 15:22:26
This can easily get weird when talking about magic and genetics. I wouldn't worry too much about trying to apply real-world genetics into this scenario, otherwise it wouldn't work.  |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 15:15:30
Dragon/ half dragon bad example in my opinion. That magic is different.
To polymorph is to change physical traits, Str, Con, and Dex - thus it follows the physical genes would change as well (Yes the genes).
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| Kilvan |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 15:03:11
Indeed, otherwise a half-human half-dragon would mean that the procreation was done in their natural form... which is a bit disturbing. |
| Cbad285 |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 14:15:17
Agreed. Short of a wish spell I haven't come up with anything that would change his genetics. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 14:00:24
I think looking at other races that employ shape altering magics often to procreate might help.
Dragons use magic to sire children with other races. im not sure if its polymorph or shapechange that they use, but the result is always a half dragon.
I guesss the magic alters the shape but not the genetics.
If the high elf polymorphed into an avariel and had a child with another avariel i would follow the dragon result and the child would be a half avariel half high elf. |
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