| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| farinal |
Posted - 15 Oct 2012 : 22:52:35
Is there an official 3.5 stats for the drow priestess' weapon of snake headed whips? |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 04:46:43
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Dragon #302 has the stats for several of the War of the Spider-Queen series characters in it, and the snake headed whip detailed isn't a "standard" one, but is Quenthel Baenre's unique and especially powerful weapon.
This? The same article as the one where Pharaun got neither Glasstrike nor Wail of the Banshee, both of which he used in the novels?
Originally, pain/daze was non-poison magical effect because, obviously, anti-poison magic is fairly common in such company. But on the other eyestalk it would make sense too - 'cause come on, poison is in Spider Queen's portfolio and those are vipers. I'd say normally it isn't, but may be used as a focus for poison-creating spells?
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
They're absolutely useless in 3E era. [...] Historically and according to novels, they should paralyze a person if you beat them enough with it, which would work if you let those penalties stack per hit, but then that strikes me as a bit OP as you could drop most people in three hits or so. The snake whips are such an iconic item, and were such a disappointment in their design. :(
Aye. And ugly prerequisites, as usual.
I liked the "living snakes possessed by enslaved imps/quasits" idea rather more than bland animate object. It fits with the notion of their own loyalties and other autonomous functions, too.
Perhaps damage should be enough to actually inflict harm (1d3-1 or even 1d3), but original 2d4 per head is way too much. After all, it's a sign of divine favour first, badge of authority second and a weapon distant third, so more punishment/utility functions would fit better.
Pain/daze effect makes it a decent self-defence weapon even with low damage, but why risk something so important on purpose? A warrior-priestess may simply get an adamantine mace or morningstar, either with usual radiation quasimagic or normal enchantments. It packs a respectable wallop and for warriors "tiny constructs do all the attacking" soon becomes a liability anyway.
But an unique item holds "personal divine gift" feel better. Also, where's the whole "chaos" part? So these things should vary, and not only the number of the heads, too. Scourges could get extra properties - taking Quenthel's as one of inspirations: working poison (milder, but still useful) head-by-head (so they may carry different ones), ability to stand guard, etc. - set mostly randomized upon creation and open to changes whenever the designated user goes through any strong priestly (Lolthite) magic and reward/punishment/advice seems to be called for (there were precedents in novels). So you never know. 
Then again, same goes for all other Drow trinkets except straightforward infused ones (weapons/armor) - insignia, piwafwi, etc. Basic versions should be just so: basic. Anyone who can afford improvements, even just a 1-level spell 1/day, will carry a non-standard item profiled for their circumstances. Sometimes it will be Spider Climb, sometimes Alarm... you never know. This would fit with early sources and novels, too. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 00:01:04
Possibly, but pain is only part of the torture of one. The save should really come in against the venom of the heads' fangs. If you go by number of heads that successfully hit, it would be a Fort save vs each head that hits, but that would get tiresome quickly. Better to make the damage just one roll, and do the same with the save. Given the slashing damage of the raking fangs, a d6 makes more sense than a d4. Also, the paralyzation should last for only a certain number of rounds, perhaps 1d6 or 1d8 at most. The penalties on a successful save would not need to stack, and should last about the same. |
| Kyrel |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 23:49:16
Off the top of my head I'd have gone with something along the lines of:
User's normal melee to hit + "number of heads on the whip". 1d4dam per head that hits. -1 penalty on attack and skill rolls per hit. Penalty stacking and lasting within a given time (would need testing to balance, but i.e. 1d4-1d6 rounds). You could add a Will save at some difficulty against the penalty, representing the victim ignoring the pain caused by the bites. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 23:28:48
You could simply use the one from the Dragon article and tone it down slightly. I've used it once or twice myself. Just remove the sentience, and really it should do just fine. There is also a similar weapon in Dragon #298, in the "Sinister Tools" article, called a Lash of Torment. You could use its damage, critical range, and attack bonus, (1d6 S; crit 19-20; acts as +3 weapon) and just apply the paralyzing venom (try a Fort save DC 18 paralyze, -2 Dex and atk on save) of the Fang-Whip. This might be more in keeping with the way they are depicted in the books. You could make the damage per head, or just assume that if one head hits, all of them do. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 19:12:31
I'd probably model a fixed version of the scourge of fangs after the Red or Russet tentacle rod in Drow of the Underdark 2E. Or have each head drain a point or two of STR or DEX per hit if a save is failed, if all heads hit it has a "power attack" like the tentacle rods and drains a bit more strength or some such. Or maybe just a saving throw verse paralyzation adjusted in DC or penalty by how many heads bite in a given round etc. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 18:33:19
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrel
Yah. Personally I always found the Snakeheaded Whips of Loth's clergy to be super cool as described in the books. But in terms of actual rules within the game, they are such a disappointment.
It has been my opinion that after a book is released the game design teams sometime have to figure out the game properties after the fact. |
| Kyrel |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 18:17:04
Yah. Personally I always found the Snakeheaded Whips of Loth's clergy to be super cool as described in the books. But in terms of actual rules within the game, they are such a disappointment. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 06:07:46
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
They're absolutely useless in 3E era. They do 1d2-2 damage, cause -4 to attacks, skill checks and i believe AC on a failed save. Historically and according to novels, they should paralyze a person if you beat them enough with it, which would work if you let those penalties stack per hit, but then that strikes me as a bit OP as you could drop most people in three hits or so. The snake whips are such an iconic item, and were such a disappointment in their design. :(
Download the City of the Spider Queen web enhancement. There should be 3E stats for them in there.
Aye, it's in the latter. It's called a "scourge of fangs", there. I don't game, but the stats listed there are many. Among them, I see (per serpent head): HD 2d10, HP 11; AC 17; ATK +5 melee (1d2-2, venom pain). The serpent heads may stack, at the wielder's option.
FWIW, the 2E version, from The Drow of the Underdark, called it a "whip of fangs" (per each tendril): 2 HD; AC 8; ATK THACO 14, 2d4 damage (not poison, but magical numbness and pain). |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 05:14:59
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
They're absolutely useless in 3E era. They do 1d2-2 damage, cause -4 to attacks, skill checks and i believe AC on a failed save. Historically, they should paralyze a person if you beat them enough with it, which would work if you let those penalties stack per hit, but then that strikes me as a bit OP as you could drop most people in three hits or so. The snake whips are such an iconic item, and were such a disappointment in their design. :(
I can't remember exactly where the stats were for those, but I do remember being a bit unimpressed with them when I saw them. |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 05:13:14
They're absolutely useless in 3E era. They do 1d2-2 damage, cause -4 to attacks, skill checks and i believe AC on a failed save. Historically and according to novels, they should paralyze a person if you beat them enough with it, which would work if you let those penalties stack per hit, but then that strikes me as a bit OP as you could drop most people in three hits or so. The snake whips are such an iconic item, and were such a disappointment in their design. :(
Download the City of the Spider Queen web enhancement. There should be 3E stats for them in there. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 04:57:03
Dragon #302 has the stats for several of the War of the Spider-Queen series characters in it, and the snake headed whip detailed isn't a "standard" one, but is Quenthel Baenre's unique and especially powerful weapon. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 04:51:45
Well I can offer that search indicates that dragon magazine issue 302 discussed them. That would be 3.0 based on reported date. No I could not find the text, just the reference pointing to that magazine. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 02:38:19
I don't currently have it handy, but this sounds like something that might have been included in 3e's Underdark. |
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