| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 29 Jun 2012 : 16:15:30
Where in Faerun is the Endless Stair from CM8? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 25 Oct 2020 : 20:18:33
Master Krashos,
Gotcha. That is interesting. All this time I thought it was all Ed on that. I did not know otherwise. Then again, I didn't know the Hooded One was not his wife, so geez, there you go. haha
Best regards,
|
| PattPlays |
Posted - 25 Oct 2020 : 08:23:50
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I have a 2E PHB which says it's a first printing, copyright 1988. Although I probably bought it in 1989, it could have publisher licensing weirdness. The Avatar novels were released simultaneously - they heralded 2E rules in the "flagship" setting - so they might also be dated back to 1988 or 1989.
The first I heard of 2E was from the guy at the game store. PHB and DMG and MM and FRA, all sitting beside the novel trilogy. No hype, no announcement, no marketing. But to be fair, I didn't buy Dungeon/Dragon magazines at the time, I never read the comic books, I read whatever novels my local library had in their always-behind-the-times inventory. So maybe the "Endless Stair" was mentioned somewhere before 1990. Though it certainly wasn't around when Manual of the Planes came out in 1987.
so from torillian gods' oerspecftives the infinite staircase has always been a thing, and it gained aspects in other forms and realms as all yhings cosmic tend to do here.
Meanwhile in the planescape setting, not set in any one crystal sphere but touching all of them, introduces the infinite staircase.
Waukeen's decisions in For duty & Diety just have me curious about a few remaining threads. I want to read back through that splatbook because the authors wrote "infinite staircase as described in his cool thing planescape made" but I want to know what termenology is used by the game's lore itself and if the celestial staircase is referenced alongside the use of the infinite staircase.. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 24 Oct 2020 : 12:09:56
I have a 2E PHB which says it's a first printing, copyright 1988. Although I probably bought it in 1989, it could have publisher licensing weirdness. The Avatar novels were released simultaneously - they heralded 2E rules in the "flagship" setting - so they might also be dated back to 1988 or 1989.
The first I heard of 2E was from the guy at the game store. PHB and DMG and MM and FRA, all sitting beside the novel trilogy. No hype, no announcement, no marketing. But to be fair, I didn't buy Dungeon/Dragon magazines at the time, I never read the comic books, I read whatever novels my local library had in their always-behind-the-times inventory. So maybe the "Endless Stair" was mentioned somewhere before 1990. Though it certainly wasn't around when Manual of the Planes came out in 1987. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 24 Oct 2020 : 09:10:49
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I'm talking about the staircase in the Endless Star adventure and the celestial staircase in the Time of Troubles. I'm not talking about Planescape at all, and frankly Planescape has nothing to do with the Realms in my view.
-- George Krashos
I'm not actually on the topic of lore anymore- I'm literally wondering which idea came first in real life. The earliest of the staircases in question that I have been able to tag is the Time of Troubles comic I referenced earlier which was supposedly published in 1990. The earlier discussion in this thread seemed to suggest that Realmslore writers were inspired to make their own version of the Infinite Staircase after Planescape released the idea in 1998. This was supported by the introduction text I quoted from For Duty & Deity. However this comes into conflict with the Celestial Staircase's comic TOT appearance predating (IRL) publication of the very module (Tales from the infinite staircase) that For Duty & Deity references. My only answer is that I have the date wrong on this specific comic's publication. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 24 Oct 2020 : 05:00:28
I'm talking about the staircase in the Endless Star adventure and the celestial staircase in the Time of Troubles. I'm not talking about Planescape at all, and frankly Planescape has nothing to do with the Realms in my view.
-- George Krashos |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 24 Oct 2020 : 03:51:26
B-But that comic with the celestial stairways predates Planescape! Is the citation on the comic's date wrong? Was Planescape in development for a decade before publishing? |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 24 Oct 2020 : 02:07:56
As I understand it, Ed did not create the concept of the celestial stairways for the ToT but considers that his work on the Endless Stair provided a fair amount of inspiration for that concept.
-- George Krashos |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 23 Oct 2020 : 21:49:40
Master Krashos,
Were you replying to Great Reader Ayrik in terms of the serial numbers filing off? I was thinking the same thing as he was regarding that staircase being the one that was ascended during the ToT.
Best regards,
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 20 Oct 2020 : 17:35:13
I can't answer that properly.
Because a spellcaster of that level could already cast fly, teleport, planeshift, gate, and worldwalk sorts of magic. And probably have a small arsenal of magical trinkets which could do much the same. Along with enough wealth and affluence to hire some of the fastest ships and magics (or mages with magics) in the world.
In short, a level 20+ character would almost certainly have a whole lot of ways to get around which don't involve climbing endless stairs.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 20 Oct 2020 : 15:59:09
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
It could always be what 2E rules called a 10th-level wizard spell or a Quest-level priest spell. Which is to say that it would have very high stat requirements, very high level requirements, excellent-relationship-with-your-deity requirements, and special attention/intervention (permission) from Mystra (or Azuth) to be cast successfully.
That I could buy as well, though in that case the question becomes why? I mean, was Khelben doing that much traversal using the Waterdeep one that it was worth it versus other planar travel mediums? Also, it opens up the question of why would a paranoia ridden person like Khelben (stress on like, because it could be anyone of sufficient power) want to open a "backdoor" so close to home at a spot that's actually advantageous for an enemy (i.e. up on mount waterdeep). Then again, Halaster could open it or someone else. For myself, its easier to believe that gods just don't give a damn and let the things get created in order to move around quickly, but mortals would be a lot more careful with such things. The point for me is moot though, as I've never used the mechanic. ITs just easier to explain any lack of forethought for placement with "well, Selune wanted to come to Waterdeep, and so that's where she put her foot down first. She then went to some bar". Then after some time the residual magic of the avatar's passing fades and the portal just disappears (how long that takes might depend on how "strong" of an avatar they sent or some other willy nilly mechanic that people come up with.... maybe its weeks, maybe its days, maybe its years, and maybe its millenia... and maybe if a got uses it multiple times it becomes semi-permanent). |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 20 Oct 2020 : 15:46:21
It could always be what 2E rules called a 10th-level wizard spell or a Quest-level priest spell. Which is to say that it would have very high stat requirements, very high level requirements, excellent-relationship-with-your-deity requirements, and special attention/intervention (permission) from Mystra (or Azuth) to be cast successfully. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 20 Oct 2020 : 12:00:50
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Well, it's "infinite" or "endless". So there's no "top" and no "bottom", it just goes up and down forever.
It has infinite entrances and exits. They could be simultaneously connected with simultaneous openings to infinite worlds.
I suppose it's possible that it's anchored in some places, known entrances and exits at known locations. In Selune's Realm, at Mystra's summons, etc, and these might somehow be "mapped out" or configured to always connect to known locations like Mount Waterdeep or Shadowdale. An infinite thing has infinite possibilities.
Curious to me that the Stairway wasn't mentioned in Realmslore much. The few mentions it did get were inconsistent, obviously contrived, and poorly conceived. By the same writing teams who created such wonders as the 2E Arcane Ages materials.
I'd almost suggest it has no "natural" connection to the Realms at all, and can only be accessed by magic. I'd even invent a Celestial Staircase spell (material component is a nonmagical staircase, which is not consumed when the spell is cast) to explain why it's been located in places inhabited by folks like Khelben and Elminster.
If the Celestial Staircase is a distinct thing then it might be a conduit which directly bridges the Faerun Realms with Mystra's Realm. Functionally similar to Mount Olympus. And it might be accessible (a granted power) for all of Mystra's Chosens.
I'd recommend against a mortal cast spell and instead go for a contrivance like ... just to throw out an idea to see how well it sticks on the wall... whenever an avatar is sent from a god's realm TO the mortal world, it creates a celestial stairway connection at the point that the avatar "touches down". That could explain away something like the connection from Selune's realm to Waterdeep, because she had an avatar in the city. Similarly, perhaps the place where Mystra 1.0 tried to go into the heavens was where the GIRL who was Mystra when Mystryl died was sitting (I don't think we've ever been told where that physically was, correct, and the Helmlands COULD easily fall within the bounds of the edges of Netheril).
Of course, that idea is literally off the top of my head, and if someone has a better idea, I'm all ears. The main reason I'd recommend against a mortal contrivance is that mortals would tend to make something very efficient to them, or at least making something with some kind of design goal to it. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Oct 2020 : 11:24:14
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
Uhhhhhg. I suppose this confusion is owed to Donovan and Carter. Though, I will concede argument for I know that those who wrote this adventure were referencing the Infinite Staircase explicitly and were doing their best to introduce the concept to Realms players. (Not to mention Waukeen was a player-creation being retroactively sold to fans here, I assume the entire work was very ambitious and risky to create.)
Waukeen dates back to the OGB. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 20 Oct 2020 : 10:38:18
Well, it's "infinite" or "endless". So there's no "top" and no "bottom", it just goes up and down forever.
It has infinite entrances and exits. They could be simultaneously connected with simultaneous openings to infinite worlds.
I suppose it's possible that it's anchored in some places, known entrances and exits at known locations. In Selune's Realm, at Mystra's summons, etc, and these might somehow be "mapped out" or configured to always connect to known locations like Mount Waterdeep or Shadowdale. An infinite thing has infinite possibilities.
Curious to me that the Stairway wasn't mentioned in Realmslore much. The few mentions it did get were inconsistent, obviously contrived, and poorly conceived. By the same writing teams who created such wonders as the 2E Arcane Ages materials.
I'd almost suggest it has no "natural" connection to the Realms at all, and can only be accessed by magic. I'd even invent a Celestial Staircase spell (material component is a nonmagical staircase, which is not consumed when the spell is cast) to explain why it's been located in places inhabited by folks like Khelben and Elminster.
If the Celestial Staircase is a distinct thing then it might be a conduit which directly bridges the Faerun Realms with Mystra's Realm. Functionally similar to Mount Olympus. And it might be accessible (a granted power) for all of Mystra's Chosens. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 20 Oct 2020 : 09:07:20
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I think it might actually be the Celestial Staircase of Realmslore.
I can only recall it mentioned one time: when fallen Mystra tried to cheat Ao's punishment during the Avatar Crisis, seizing upon the staircase as a way to sneak back to the Outer Planes (presumably to access servants and power caches in her Outer Planar realm, to live in greater comfort and security, and to maybe get ahead of her still-mortal Faerunian rivals).
She could've instead cast a spell like planeshift or gate (just like any mortal spellcaster could have done) - and the resulting wild-magic surge would've been extremely dangerous or fatal (just as it would be for any mortal spellcaster) - far too risky for a vulnerable cast-down goddess to attempt when a nearby Staircase could offer a "safe" alternative.
Mystra 1E was the goddess of magic, mysteries, secrets, and arcane lore. And she was noted for being uncannily prudent - caching away "shards" of her power (in her Chosens and other places) - almost as if she had already seen her future events.
So even as a fallen goddess she would be uniquely positioned to still have the necessary knowledge to perceive or predict or provoke the next appearance of the Infinite Staircase. (Although she evidently hadn't seen this future with full clarity, lol, since Helm promptly aborted her escape attempt and smashed her into oblivion.)
Planescape lore grouped the Infinite Staircase into a category of oddball multi-planar phenomena (along with the Yggdrasil Tree, Mount Olympus, rivers like the Styx and Oceanus, etc). Maybe natural, maybe constructed, maybe quirks or flaws in the cosmos, maybe relics leftover from earlier cosmos, maybe eternal or maybe transient, maybe even "alive" in some weird way. And all known by countless names on countless worlds. Yggdrasil and World Ash and Cosmic Tree and World Tree are all different names for the same thing (or at least for different expressions of the same thing), Infinite Staircase and Endless Staircase and Celestial Staircase and Stairway to Heaven might likewise all be different names for the same thing.
Only clueless primes would try to understand the workings of impossible incomprehensible things, savvy planars just accept the cosmic landscape for what it is and try to think about how they can make use of it.
To what benefit do we have to conflate the two? Just because they're both staircases does not mean they are equivalent. This Celestial Staircase is a strictly plot-oriented item to allow Helm to have his scene with the Goddess of Magic so that Elminster can res her later on. It's a *plot contrivance* curtailing to what I see as a single event.
However...
From For Duty & Diety:
"Like many of the powers, Waukeenknew of the Celestial Staircase (the Torilian name forthe Infinite Staircase) in Shadowdale and determined toclimb it. Torm, the god of guardians, confronted her and barred her way. Waukeen attempted to bribe Torm with his heart #237;s desire in order to let her and Lliira pass, but not surprisingly she failed to tempt the god of duty."
Uhhhhhg. I suppose this confusion is owed to Donovan and Carter. Though, I will concede argument for I know that those who wrote this adventure were referencing the Infinite Staircase explicitly and were doing their best to introduce the concept to Realms players. (Not to mention Waukeen was a player-creation being retroactively sold to fans here, I assume the entire work was very ambitious and risky to create.)
However that still makes me frustrated.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/a/af/Celestial_Stairway.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/400?cb=20180710124348
How can THIS be the inifinite staircase, "rising from Mount Waterdeep", when the stairs are meant to rise from Selune's realm? The entire concept of someone "GUARDING THE ENTRANCE TO THE INFINITE STAIRCASE" is going entirely against it's Chaotic Good origins and making it into some holy fixture of the divine structure. The staircase is said to show up where creativity and novel ideas are being had by mortals and planar creatures alike and it isn't some ridiculously simplistic Christianity parallel!
Edit: The wiki cites Shadowdale and Total Eclipse as insinuating that the staircase has some kind of "divine nexus".
"The individual stairways, invisible to ordinary people, could only be seen properly by gods or by very powerful mortals potent in magic."
This goes enirely against the original point of the staircase! The staircase is DEFINITIVELY the planar pathway for the everyday person who is creative enough to be blessed by it's appearance in their life! Being INVISIBLE to mortal eyes ENTIRELY DESTROYS the titular planescape module that introduced the concept!
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Total_Eclipse
Edit2: Okay now I don't know what to think. This comic with the Celestial Staircase is dated at 1990 as a release date. Eight years before Planescape's Tales from the Infinite Staircase.
I guess the celestial staircase came... first? Planescape was released in 1994.. so.. the merging of the two was..
Huh.
Well, there's the source of our collective confusion. The Celestial Staircase came first. Huh. So when For Duty & Diety has players traversing the Infinite Staircase.. I suppose these authors wished to marry the two ideas together, I don't know- the 90's are not my specialty. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 20 Oct 2020 : 06:06:25
I think it might actually be the Celestial Staircase of Realmslore.
I can only recall it mentioned one time: when fallen Mystra tried to cheat Ao's punishment during the Avatar Crisis, seizing upon the staircase as a way to sneak back to the Outer Planes (presumably to access servants and power caches in her Outer Planar realm, to live in greater comfort and security, and to maybe get ahead of her still-mortal Faerunian rivals).
She could've instead cast a spell like planeshift or gate (just like any mortal spellcaster could have done) - and the resulting wild-magic surge would've been extremely dangerous or fatal (just as it would be for any mortal spellcaster) - far too risky for a vulnerable cast-down goddess to attempt when a nearby Staircase could offer a "safe" alternative.
Mystra 1E was the goddess of magic, mysteries, secrets, and arcane lore. And she was noted for being uncannily prudent - caching away "shards" of her power (in her Chosens and other places) - almost as if she had already seen her future events.
So even as a fallen goddess she would be uniquely positioned to still have the necessary knowledge to perceive or predict or provoke the next appearance of the Infinite Staircase. (Although she evidently hadn't seen this future with full clarity, lol, since Helm promptly aborted her escape attempt and smashed her into oblivion.)
Planescape lore grouped the Infinite Staircase into a category of oddball multi-planar phenomena (along with the Yggdrasil Tree, Mount Olympus, rivers like the Styx and Oceanus, etc). Maybe natural, maybe constructed, maybe quirks or flaws in the cosmos, maybe relics leftover from earlier cosmos, maybe eternal or maybe transient, maybe even "alive" in some weird way. And all known by countless names on countless worlds. Yggdrasil and World Ash and Cosmic Tree and World Tree are all different names for the same thing (or at least for different expressions of the same thing), Infinite Staircase and Endless Staircase and Celestial Staircase and Stairway to Heaven might likewise all be different names for the same thing.
Only clueless primes would try to understand the workings of impossible incomprehensible things, savvy planars just accept the cosmic landscape for what it is and try to think about how they can make use of it. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 20 Oct 2020 : 02:56:32
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Remember that mileage doesn't apply to the planes.
The staircase might have a metaphorical or symbolic connection to the Realms instead of a "physical" one. As in it simply appears in staircase-like places and forms as suited, not necessarily always the same thing in the same place. Descriptions in Planescape lore are conflicting - suggesting the Staircase either assumes whatever form fits into each place or that it is difficult to recognize because of infinitely changing forms.
It is a sort of transitive plane in itself. And it's basically just as dangerous to the unwary as the Mists of Ravenloft or the Lady's portals in Sigil. Each segment of the staircase looks like (and connects to) a staircase in some world, and whole flights or decks or galleries of stairs (along with the places they connect to) are constantly changing. If the staircase is constantly changing and the locations the staircase connects to are constantly changing then it makes sense that the locations themselves are constantly changing - that there is no fixed place where the Infinite Staircase will always be found.
You could simply use the same old stairway you always use, start climbing up to the tower or down to the cellar, but realize after a flight or two that something is different, realize after turning around that it doesn't make sense, maybe find your point of entry no longer exists or somehow goes somewhere else, find yourself stuck wherever the staircase takes you.
While others might simply find the normal staircase in the normal place, leading as expected to the tower/cellar. They can even follow you moments later, but find the stairs don't lead to you (or more precisely, to where you have gone).
Precisely this. Yes, the stairs rise out of Argentum's halls but that location is in no way the Celestial Staircase of realmslore. The staircase is a facet of nature, just like any god with a domain. It is a space-filling-curve fractal pattern weaving between all things extraplanar. If you want to have a holy megastaircase to heaven guarded by your gods, sure. Just don't lazily conflate it with the simplistic beauty of the Infinite Staircase.
The base of the staircase in Argentum (as per the titular module, which I have run) is the only one place where you can always find the stairs. If they were not the creation of this layer of Ysgard, then they are willingly embraced by and protected by the denizens therein. It's a planescape construct for player use, and not a fundamental piece of realmslore. The staircase involved in the time of troubles is absolutely not the same stairs- that, or the presence of gods on these stairs warped their ever-changing forms to the gods wishes when Ao sat his guardian upon them. Only a being such as he could take hold of the infinite fractal stairs switching this way and that and form them into a single staircase to the outer planes. Doing so would make sense, if he wanted to intentionally kneecap all planar travel for the duration of the time of troubles. However this would be theoretically felt on all planes, so the idea is still absurd to me. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 20 Oct 2020 : 00:34:08
Remember that mileage doesn't apply to the planes.
The staircase might have a metaphorical or symbolic connection to the Realms instead of a "physical" one. As in it simply appears in staircase-like places and forms as suited, not necessarily always the same thing in the same place. Descriptions in Planescape lore are conflicting - suggesting the Staircase either assumes whatever form fits into each place or that it is difficult to recognize because of infinitely changing forms.
It is a sort of transitive plane in itself. And it's basically just as dangerous to the unwary as the Mists of Ravenloft or the Lady's portals in Sigil. Each segment of the staircase looks like (and connects to) a staircase in some world, and whole flights or decks or galleries of stairs (along with the places they connect to) are constantly changing. If the staircase is constantly changing and the locations the staircase connects to are constantly changing then it makes sense that the locations themselves are constantly changing - that there is no fixed place where the Infinite Staircase will always be found.
You could simply use the same old stairway you always use, start climbing up to the tower or down to the cellar, but realize after a flight or two that something is different, realize after turning around that it doesn't make sense, maybe find your point of entry no longer exists or somehow goes somewhere else, find yourself stuck wherever the staircase takes you.
While others might simply find the normal staircase in the normal place, leading as expected to the tower/cellar. They can even follow you moments later, but find the stairs don't lead to you (or more precisely, to where you have gone). |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Oct 2020 : 20:57:49
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Regarding the Celestial Stairway, I always thought it was basically an interpretation of the Bifrost Rainbow Bridge. When it was introduced in the Time of Troubles, Helm (aka Heimdall) was standing at the top of a big rainbow colored staircase that extended to the realm of the gods (or at least my memory is saying it was rainbow colored once it was "seen"... maybe it was invisible?). I'd interpret it as yet another portal nexus setup by someone for getting to the outer planes with open ended where there are "branches" coming off it and touching on the real world. I'd also wonder if these don't create themselves and destroy themselves spontaneously (coming and going with little more than a whimper), or only become active at specific times under certain circumstances.... almost like the "world tree" growing limbs into the real world and occasionally having its limbs "shake" due to "celestial winds".
I dunno about the portals spawning and despawning spontaneously, but I do agree that the Celestial Stairway should be a multiple-destination kinda thing.
Put it this way... a portal ending may last millenia and be always open to someone who knows how to use it... it may last only a night once per century... it may only open AFTER someone closes down another portal somewhere else.... It may only work once and then its destroyed... Essentially, there's no need to define that every link for the celestial stairway follows the same rulesets, other than that they go to some kind of "roughly" centralized place and then that place has connections to "elsewhere". If they aren't created "spontaneously" then perhaps its simply the gods moving them. I would not put such power in the hands of mortal beings though for the celestial stairway (other planar nexii... maybe..). I also wouldn't make it like fey crossroads, as I wouldn't put the whimsical fey in charge of it.... however, gods like Helm might put their own angels or einheriar as guardians over an entrance (and if a celestial stairway goes to a dark and evil place, perhaps this is simply to stop the unprepared from getting themselves killed). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Oct 2020 : 19:29:09
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Regarding the Celestial Stairway, I always thought it was basically an interpretation of the Bifrost Rainbow Bridge. When it was introduced in the Time of Troubles, Helm (aka Heimdall) was standing at the top of a big rainbow colored staircase that extended to the realm of the gods (or at least my memory is saying it was rainbow colored once it was "seen"... maybe it was invisible?). I'd interpret it as yet another portal nexus setup by someone for getting to the outer planes with open ended where there are "branches" coming off it and touching on the real world. I'd also wonder if these don't create themselves and destroy themselves spontaneously (coming and going with little more than a whimper), or only become active at specific times under certain circumstances.... almost like the "world tree" growing limbs into the real world and occasionally having its limbs "shake" due to "celestial winds".
I dunno about the portals spawning and despawning spontaneously, but I do agree that the Celestial Stairway should be a multiple-destination kinda thing. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Oct 2020 : 15:56:51
Regarding the Celestial Stairway, I always thought it was basically an interpretation of the Bifrost Rainbow Bridge. When it was introduced in the Time of Troubles, Helm (aka Heimdall) was standing at the top of a big rainbow colored staircase that extended to the realm of the gods (or at least my memory is saying it was rainbow colored once it was "seen"... maybe it was invisible?). I'd interpret it as yet another portal nexus setup by someone for getting to the outer planes with open ended where there are "branches" coming off it and touching on the real world. I'd also wonder if these don't create themselves and destroy themselves spontaneously (coming and going with little more than a whimper), or only become active at specific times under certain circumstances.... almost like the "world tree" growing limbs into the real world and occasionally having its limbs "shake" due to "celestial winds". |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 19 Oct 2020 : 15:48:10
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Ed has told me it is an FR adventure with the serial numbers filed off. Must ping him to give us the Realms locations/people.
-- George Krashos
Dear Krash, when you do that, can you also ask if the Celestial Stairs are the same as the Infibnite Staircase from Planescapes Tales of the Infinite Staircase?
This is on page 17 of the 2e adventure For Duty and Deity:
"The base of the Infinite Staircase (also called the Celestial Staircase by those who know of its existence on Faerūn) rises from a chamber in Selūne's palace Argentil, on the plane of Ysgard." |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 19 Oct 2020 : 05:04:30
From what I recall, that adventure had a proto-version of the hakeashar which would definitely allude to the Realms around Mulhorand, Unther or Chessenta. |
| PattPlays |
Posted - 19 Oct 2020 : 04:52:59
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Ed has told me it is an FR adventure with the serial numbers filed off. Must ping him to give us the Realms locations/people.
-- George Krashos
Dear Krash, when you do that, can you also ask if the Celestial Stairs are the same as the Infibnite Staircase from Planescapes Tales of the Infinite Staircase?
My fan opinion is that the Infinite Staircase works best as a subtle back-roads where nobody important really treads. A winding quasi-space between all of the demiplanes and interdimensional tubes, accessible through cutely modest means. My staircase is one cr 0 commoners stumble upon while drunk in a tavern and spend a bender in various worlds before somehow stumbling home, wondering if any of it was real.
Mundane and fantastical. That's my staircase. |
| Thauramarth |
Posted - 18 Oct 2020 : 17:58:39
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Ed has told me it is an FR adventure with the serial numbers filed off. Must ping him to give us the Realms locations/people.
-- George Krashos
Dear Krash, when you do that, can you also ask if the Celestial Stairs are the same as the Infibnite Staircase from Planescapes Tales of the Infinite Staircase? |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 18 Oct 2020 : 08:52:35
Ed has told me it is an FR adventure with the serial numbers filed off. Must ping him to give us the Realms locations/people.
-- George Krashos |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 18 Oct 2020 : 08:11:51
Was it not featured (as a "Celestial Stairway") during the Avatar Crisis, the place where Helm destroyed Mystra 1.0, later known as the "Pits of Mystra"?
And was it the same "planar stairway" used in the old Azure Bonds novels, the way into (and out of) Finder's near-the-positive-energy-plane prison? |
| Marco Volo |
Posted - 18 Oct 2020 : 08:07:12
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Script #1 is the bit of parchment on p.17 titled The DM Map 3 Tomb of Cheiromar, while Script #2 is the bit of parchment on the following page titled DM Map 4 The Seat of Power.
-- George Krashos
As simple as that ! Thanks a lot George. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 18 Oct 2020 : 07:37:13
Script #1 is the bit of parchment on p.17 titled The DM Map 3 Tomb of Cheiromar, while Script #2 is the bit of parchment on the following page titled DM Map 4 The Seat of Power.
-- George Krashos |
| Marco Volo |
Posted - 18 Oct 2020 : 00:01:22
In the Endless Stair (page 12), it is said twice that there are two "Scripts" (aka handouts) page 32 to give to the Players, but the page 32 of the PDF I brought on the DM's Guild only have Pregenerated characters on it.
Does anyone own the paper version of the adventure to tell me what these "Scripts" are ?
I think it would be very strange for TSR to let the text refers to something they finally cut. |
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