| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 26 May 2012 : 04:35:48
Yep! That's right, I want to place The Five Shires of Mystara (written by our beloved Ed Greenwood) where now sits the Gulthmere Forest.
There are several settlements/cities there that will essentially no longer exist though, and so I'm wanting to talk to folks and see what they think.
What negative thoughts does anyone have about placing the Shires where the Gulthmere Forest is? Will I be destroying any major lore that I need to reconcile?
What positive thoughts does anyone have? What are some advantages of using a dedicated Halfling nation in the area?
For those that aren't familiar with the Five Shires, it is a very interesting read and is thick with EGG! (Ed Greenwood Goodness). I would recommend it for a read to anyone!
I am also looking for ANYONE interested in helping me make a MAP of this new thing too! Map-makers...are you there?  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 23 Jan 2023 : 19:51:58
Just an update for Eric...I have not been able to get in touch with MT with a reply from him and I haven't found the map that I somewhat recall of him placing the Five Shires where Luiren is. I am pretty sure he did one, but I didn't save it and it seems to have been removed from his page. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 15 Jun 2022 : 15:18:05
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
That's still Mark's map of the Five Shires on the Dragon Coast.
While an interesting idea, I was hoping to find a map of the Five Shires overlaid atop Luiren.
--Eric
Ahhh...I misunderstood.
I don't recall ever seeing anyone actually do the map there.
Unless it was Mark...I have some shadow of a memory. I'll keep looking around. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 15 Jun 2022 : 13:43:20
That's still Mark's map of the Five Shires on the Dragon Coast.
While an interesting idea, I was hoping to find a map of the Five Shires overlaid atop Luiren.
--Eric |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 15 Jun 2022 : 04:47:32
Raw link here:
https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/Five-Shires-FR-Conversion-653017761 |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 15 Jun 2022 : 04:45:12
Pretty sure I still have the map...I'll see where I put it. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 14 Jun 2022 : 14:20:36
Superimposing the Five Shires map onto the Luiren map has never actually happened as far as I'm aware.
-- George Krashos |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 13 Jun 2022 : 20:03:47
That's the one where he put it "under" the Dragon Coast.
The original idea is to use it in lieu of Luiren.
Thanks though.
--Eric
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Thread necromancy. Does the map still exist somewhere?
I found this one:
https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/NEW-5-Shires-coversion-for-FR-2-0-656703763
It's from 2017. If there's a newer one, I didn't see it on his DeviantArt page.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Jun 2022 : 18:54:38
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Thread necromancy. Does the map still exist somewhere?
I found this one:
https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/NEW-5-Shires-coversion-for-FR-2-0-656703763
It's from 2017. If there's a newer one, I didn't see it on his DeviantArt page. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 13 Jun 2022 : 15:20:31
Thread necromancy. Does the map still exist somewhere? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Jun 2021 : 14:48:55
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I once commented to Ed about using the Five Shires for Luiren... His response:
quote:
Sure. Superimpose the Luiren cities and government structure, shift places "just a little" to make room for them, and, yes, it works admirably for that. Almost as if someone designed it that way. ;}
I was just now eyeballing the entry for The Five Shires on the DriveThruRPG website. Someone wrote up a history of the product -- and it includes that Ed quote (minus the emoticon). So either Ed has answered that question before with the exact same wording, or the write-up's author -- "Shannon Appelcline, the editor-in-chief of RPGnet and the author of Designers & Dragons" -- got the info from here. That blurb came from an email exchange betwixt Ed and I, and I only shared it here. A quick google search shows that blurb has traveled about the internet more than I would have expected. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 23 Nov 2020 : 04:40:16
Senior Scribe TheIriaeban,
quote:
The Hin make contact with the Gentle Folk, a group of pacifist elven folk who start to mentor the Halflings. Hin records do not indicate where these Hin come from; but many suspect after excavations that the Hin of The Five Shires may have been slaves belonging to Netherese Spelljamming Arcanists which fought for their freedom and forced the ship they were on to crash where Faerdinel was founded. Whether these Hin were from Faerun or some other world is unknown.
Imagine if these Hin that Great Reader was writing about were all apart of some Eldathan long game, as with the Odonti we were speaking about earlier? That would be pretty cool. What do you think?
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 23:25:54
Great Reader Darden,
quote:
8. “me too”-style posts are not permitted. Single posts in response to an offering of material or to say “thanks” to a poster for providing information just adds unnecessary posts to the thread. If you really feel the need to thank a poster for anything in particular, please use the Private Message facility.
I appreciate you bringing that to my attention. My intention was not to have my post be in the vein of a "me too" style post; however, I know you are a well intentioned, and reasonable sage. I'll reflect on that and seek advice on that post of mine.
My intention with that response, beyond the obvious compliment was to discuss and share in the experience of your Five Shires, per the "Running the Realms" sub-text, which is: quote:
A DM's discussion area to share experiences of running Forgotten Realms campaigns and adventures and to seek advice and help from other Realms Dungeon Masters.
However, I may have erred in the context of my post, and as I said, I'll reflect on your response and seek advice.
Thank you for mentioning this!
Best regards,
|
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 23:02:18
8. “me too”-style posts are not permitted. Single posts in response to an offering of material or to say “thanks” to a poster for providing information just adds unnecessary posts to the thread. If you really feel the need to thank a poster for anything in particular, please use the Private Message facility. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 21:48:43
Great Reader Darden,
This has been an amazingly cool scroll to read through. I must admit, the idea of adding the Five Shires there is really appealing. I'm such a canon enthusiast, but that is super compelling.
What a time to build it up too: (8) years!
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 21:46:07
Great Reader sleyvas,
Wow, that is incredible. That posted map is from (3) years ago. It would be super cool if he was producing maps again.
Best regards,
|
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 20:47:32
I left it open on purpose. Trying to tie it to a concrete connection in Faerun just wasn't how I saw the founding of the Five Shires.
So I simply wrote it as:
Circa -950 DR – “The Early Days.” The coming of halflings to Faerdinel and the building of Faerdinel Keep. The Hin make contact with the Gentle Folk, a group of pacifist elven folk who start to mentor the Halflings. Hin records do not indicate where these Hin come from; but many suspect after excavations that the Hin of The Five Shires may have been slaves belonging to Netherese Spelljamming Arcanists which fought for their freedom and forced the ship they were on to crash where Faerdinel was founded. Whether these Hin were from Faerun or some other world is unknown. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 19:55:25
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey Dalor,
I just went to the second page of this thread to see the timeline you were putting together because of something someone else said in another thread. I didn't think you were having any relation between these halflings and the halflings in Luiren. However, with all the halflings that supposedly came through in Calimshan, did you make any ties there? Just curious, because I don't think they've ever done anything with that.
I was digging around in my timeline and I found the stuff below. I put this together a long time ago so I have put in italics the stuff I believe to not be canon.
-7800:
The Great Arrival: The noble djinni lord Calim arrives in Faerűn followed by the Djen, an entourage of genies and their human and halfling slaves. The djinni lord quickly seizes all the lands south and west of the Marching Mountains and founds the Calim Empire on the present-day site of Calimport.
-7790:
The Dragon Wars: A Flight of Dragons destroys the city of Calimport. This event initiates a century of war pitting Calim and the genies against the dragons. By its end, every dragon in the Marching Mountains dies at the hands and magic of the genies. The genies’ magic rebuilds Calimport within a year of its initial destruction.
It is during this time that the elves and dwarves of Forest of Mir and the Alimir Mountains first encounter escaped human and halfling slaves of the Calim Empire. They quickly decide to help them relocate to the southeast of the Lake of Steam. The Calim Empire loses slaves at a rate of 1 of every 14 human slaves and 2 of every 11 halfling slaves per year.
-6000:
Humans return from the Lluirwood Forest, which stretches from the River Ammath in the west to the River Gundar in the east, and from the Toadsquat Mountains all the way to the shore of the Luirenstrand. They report three distinct tribes of hin living in that region.
Human nomads start to roam the Shaar in numbers. Trade with the gold dwarves of the Great Rift begins.
Gotcha, the italicized section is his own add it looks like? Guessing that's the case because that's not what's in the GHotR. However, what that's showing is that some of the Calishite halflings homebrew went down to Luiren. It provides no linkage between the calishite halflings and this variation on the five shires (side note, I had thought that at one point they were trying to put this located less in Turmish and more on the lake of steam area so as it could be an easier insert without affecting the neighbors as much since the border kingdoms have always been a lot more fluid).
EDIT: Yeah, I know now why I could have sworn that they wanted it in the lake of steam areas. It was where he originally thought he could put it and he must have somewhere or other put out a concept sketch. At that time he had a ton of concept sketches he was floating out.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21420
I will say from a lore standpoint, I still think that's a better place to put it (i.e. in the erlkazar/ lake of steam/border kingdoms area), because it won't "step on" the surrounding regions like Cormyr as much. It puts it closer to the Shaar and Calimshan, which can have some idea that some of the halflings came from Calimshan to form some kind of realm after the fall of genie rule. Also, the concept of the "black flame" special material is something that could be equated to the efreeti as well. Maybe
Also to note, Markustay actually has a newer version than the map previously referenced. Its still near Turmish for that one, but its probably a better placement. Still think that the Lake of Steam area makes more sense for having a sudden realm appear without conflicting with lore on Cormyr, Sembia, etc... who would be involved with a nearby halfling people (less so with the border kingdoms, shaar, etc....).
https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/NEW-5-Shires-coversion-for-FR-2-0-656703763
|
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 22 Nov 2020 : 16:29:20
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey Dalor,
I just went to the second page of this thread to see the timeline you were putting together because of something someone else said in another thread. I didn't think you were having any relation between these halflings and the halflings in Luiren. However, with all the halflings that supposedly came through in Calimshan, did you make any ties there? Just curious, because I don't think they've ever done anything with that.
I was digging around in my timeline and I found the stuff below. I put this together a long time ago so I have put in italics the stuff I believe to not be canon.
-7800:
The Great Arrival: The noble djinni lord Calim arrives in Faerűn followed by the Djen, an entourage of genies and their human and halfling slaves. The djinni lord quickly seizes all the lands south and west of the Marching Mountains and founds the Calim Empire on the present-day site of Calimport.
-7790:
The Dragon Wars: A Flight of Dragons destroys the city of Calimport. This event initiates a century of war pitting Calim and the genies against the dragons. By its end, every dragon in the Marching Mountains dies at the hands and magic of the genies. The genies’ magic rebuilds Calimport within a year of its initial destruction.
It is during this time that the elves and dwarves of Forest of Mir and the Alimir Mountains first encounter escaped human and halfling slaves of the Calim Empire. They quickly decide to help them relocate to the southeast of the Lake of Steam. The Calim Empire loses slaves at a rate of 1 of every 14 human slaves and 2 of every 11 halfling slaves per year.
-6000:
Humans return from the Lluirwood Forest, which stretches from the River Ammath in the west to the River Gundar in the east, and from the Toadsquat Mountains all the way to the shore of the Luirenstrand. They report three distinct tribes of hin living in that region.
Human nomads start to roam the Shaar in numbers. Trade with the gold dwarves of the Great Rift begins.
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 21 Nov 2020 : 23:51:53
Great Reader sleyvas,
Do you happen to know if Explorer Markustay was the one that created the map for the Five Shires? It is amazing!
Best regards,
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Nov 2020 : 21:59:46
Hey Dalor,
I just went to the second page of this thread to see the timeline you were putting together because of something someone else said in another thread. I didn't think you were having any relation between these halflings and the halflings in Luiren. However, with all the halflings that supposedly came through in Calimshan, did you make any ties there? Just curious, because I don't think they've ever done anything with that. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 28 Oct 2020 : 08:28:37
Great Reader Darden,
Master Markustay created that map? It is absolutely stunning! Zooming in on that area is mind blowing with the detail as is always the case.
Has he done additional maps for the Shires as well?
Best regards,
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 27 Oct 2020 : 17:18:02
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I still come back to this and slowly work on it. It just turned out to be more than I had reckoned all those years ago.
I think I just got infected with SageTime...
MT still has a nice map of this here:
https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/Five-Shires-FR-Conversion-653017761
You and me both brother. I run in too many directions. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 27 Oct 2020 : 15:00:43
I still come back to this and slowly work on it. It just turned out to be more than I had reckoned all those years ago.
I think I just got infected with SageTime...
MT still has a nice map of this here:
https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/art/Five-Shires-FR-Conversion-653017761 |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Aug 2015 : 00:09:45
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Yeah...YEARS later this is actually nearer to completion.
I suffer from lack of focus...only excuse I have.
Will post a link here when it is up!
Hey, I just noticed the other day that a project I'd been working on was at least a couple years old... In my case, I'm not the best person at creating things from scratch, and my schedule simply doesn't allow much free time, any more.
Being easily distracted by bright and shiny objects doesn't help.
So don't feel bad about taking a while!  |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 25 Aug 2015 : 23:52:09
Yeah...YEARS later this is actually nearer to completion.
I suffer from lack of focus...only excuse I have.
Will post a link here when it is up! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Nov 2014 : 03:37:09
I put the Nentir Vale in Athwater Vale (that same region around Secomber, south of The High Forest. It was an excellent fit (I didn't even have to resize it - FR is that BIG). Funny how TSR/WotC never really bothered to develop it as a campaign region - its pretty central to everything else.
My Five Shires sits south of the High Moor, in the Greenfields region (Greenest is supposed to be halfling anyway,and it falls-out between former and possible future halfling realms (Meritan and Sheeland). I also split the continent at that point, which made it easy for me to port-in The Five Shires unchanged (its super-imposed with Luiren, which got moved to the same spot). |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 03 Nov 2014 : 21:18:37
How did I miss this for so long! Excellent ideas thenightgaunt! |
| thenightgaunt |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 01:11:58
I actually did almost the same thing. Just in a different location
I ran a campaign based around chronomancy and the PC's convincing groups of refugees to relocate to a region where they were building a new city.
The city north of the High Moor (replacing "modern day" Secomber) and I wanted the city to be mostly non-human. So I placed the 5 Shires in the empty territory south of the Evermoors. The first Trollwar of Waterdeep would have destroyed them but the PC's convinced them to flee south. I also got to use the Dwarves of Rockhome to create a viable version of Ilfaren (for the same reason). The result was a mostly dwarf/halfling city where Secomber used to be.
The books might be Mystaran but they make for fantastic demihuman settlements and give them a level of detail that players often love. Heck, my Rockhome was a more interesting place than my Waterdeep. Though I may not really have the feel for running the latter properly. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 04 Mar 2014 : 08:07:53
Unfortunately, this project is on hold for an indeterminate amount of time pending completion of my first publication effort. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 30 Jul 2013 : 05:06:45
Thanks MT! As always, you are the best! |
