| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Warrax |
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 : 16:20:53
Oy, what have I gotten myself into?
So I've agreed to do a forum-based FR game set in the 1370s, running it 3.5e. The big flavor focus is that the characters will mostly be some sort of psionic beings, or at least a few of them will.
Now, I was a big fan of Kimmuriel in Salvatore's books and I remember the Complete Psionics Handbook from 2e with great fondness, but I must admit, I am somewhat stumped.
So my question to you guys is: would you treat the campaign a lot different than you would anyone else, focusing a lot on the psionic element right from the start? Or would you treat them like any other players and just occasionally weave in things related to psionics? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 10 Mar 2012 : 16:32:55
Also in the WotC Mind's Eye Archives are a few articles from the Legends of Sardior series. I remember psionic gem dragons, a couple of PrCs and the Demiiplane of Ectoplasm. May be something there you can use. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 10 Mar 2012 : 06:52:31
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
I'm still puzzled as to how d20 psionics with those crawling crystals, astral constructs and other junk can fit (without hammering sideways) into any setting, though. 
-The same way Nishruu (Lost Empires of Faer�n) and Ruby Golems (Monster Compendium: Monsters of Faer�n) fit.
Golems are made of everything and extraplanars are supposed to be weird, so... I don't see how one is linked to another, unless you mean old good "someone trows a fireball, so pogo stick cavalry in party hats is automatically okay too" joke.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
That was the story about the malenti stealing sea elven magic on behalf of the drow, right? I always thought that was an artful way of explaining a rule irregularity. Elaine has a deft touch with things like that.
-It's interesting that no other authors really do that; I wonder why. Not condemning them or anything, but an observation.
Yup. She rather consistently introduces in-universe lore that should be there, if not necessarily have any sense at all. But then, same goes for other texts - bawdy songs and so on. Matter of style, perhaps. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 21:56:10
-Yeah, I guess the Time of Troubles could qualify. Since there is so much more overarching metaplot plot taking place, I really don't consider it too much in that way. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 21:38:30
Well, they tried to do that with the ToT series. We can argue how well it worked out, though I always did like Myrkul wiping out all the assassins to fuel his second Bane super-charge spell. Something about the callousness and confidence of Myrkul's "I'll deal with Bhaal," when Bane wonders if he's worried about Bhaal's probably angry reaction.
But you're right, not many others try to do that. It sort of reminds me of an interview I read with... ah, darn it I forgot his name. He was the author of the second half of the Star Wars X-wing novels, the ones around Wraith Squadron. Ah, Aaron Allston. He said for the last book in the series he took it as a challenge to figure out why one character in the EU had gone from dating one person to married to another with no explanation. I think it worked out quite well, and it's something I wish more shared-world authors would do. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 21:18:38
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
That was the story about the malenti stealing sea elven magic on behalf of the drow, right? I always thought that was an artful way of explaining a rule irregularity. Elaine has a deft touch with things like that.
-It's interesting that no other authors really do that; I wonder why. Not condemning them or anything, but an observation. |
| Warrax |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 19:45:52
Ooh, neat, thanks!
Also, resurrecting dead gods is a fond gaming habit of mine, I'll have to look into Auppenser, that could be fun. |
| Demron |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 18:57:49
I love psionics!
My last big campaign involved the revival of the god of psioncis, Auppenser. The character in question was a sun elf psychic theurge of Auppenser (with the feat Servant of the Fallen). It worked very well and culminated in a very epic way.
Here's some stuff that might be of interest to you.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070711 - Class Chronicles: Psionic Classes
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_tjt.htm - Jhaamdathan Timeline
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kaliesh%27erai - Kaliesh'erai
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| Hoondatha |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 05:40:35
Glad to be of help. It's been a fun mental exercise. |
| Warrax |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 04:38:54
I do a ton of tweaking to make things suit my sensibilities and views anyhow, so it's no big deal; I know what you meant, in any case :)
You guys have been a HUGE help, thanks! |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 04:27:24
That was the story about the malenti stealing sea elven magic on behalf of the drow, right? I always thought that was an artful way of explaining a rule irregularity. Elaine has a deft touch with things like that.
But SoFS established that whatever the problem was, introducing "fresh" blood by interbreeding with surface elves solved it. So there shouldn't be any problem with a psionicist/wizard sea elf; at least in Seros. It would be an interestingly different take on the place.
Oh, and Warrax, I didn't mean there would be a problem with your players or their characters. That was more of just a general observation about keeping things straight in your own head. If you posit a psionic Jhaamdath, something like this actually seems quite plausible. It's just not what is in SoFS, so you'll have to do some tweaking. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 03:37:36
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Hmm, sea-elf psionic-wizards/theurges? I am quite enamored with the idea...
But I have always played it so that elves, because of their natural affinity to arcane magic, have additional difficulties when unraveling the more primal-like forces of Mindmagic. I see it that for Elves (who when having trained in the Art can see the weave around them clearly) the "Invisible Art" is taken quite literally. They struggle to "see" the inner workings of psionics and therefore produce nearly no capable psionicists. Some do manage to develope the "Inner eye" needed to control psionic energy.
-The rub is that, while Aquatic Elves are "made" of magic, just like other Elves, their Arcane traditions are nearly nil. I believe in 2e, Aquatic Elves had penalties when it came to Arcane magic, like Dwarves. That didn't carry on into 3e mechanics, but in Forgotten Realms lore, we know that they had a 'disability' when it comes to Arcane magic. Not just the details of casting it- they'd need specialized components and materials, since they live under the sea- either. They had a 'block', so to speak. There was never an actual explanation given, but Elaine Cunningham provided a mythological explanation in her story in Realms of the Arcane that's as good as anything else. |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 01:02:00
Hmm, sea-elf psionic-wizards/theurges? I am quite enamored with the idea...
But I have always played it so that elves, because of their natural affinity to arcane magic, have additional difficulties when unraveling the more primal-like forces of Mindmagic. I see it that for Elves (who when having trained in the Art can see the weave around them clearly) the "Invisible Art" is taken quite literally. They struggle to "see" the inner workings of psionics and therefore produce nearly no capable psionicists. Some do manage to develope the "Inner eye" needed to control psionic energy.
The above is inspired by lore taken from "the Will and the Way" book of the Darksun setting and earlier 2nd edition psionic books, where they mentioned elves being the race least represented by psionicists.
____
Sea Elf Psion-Wizards are still quite possible; a cadre of Mages unlocking the secrets of an Udoxia would be sorely tempted to tap into such a free source of power. I'd see Sea Elven Mages favoring the telepathy and clairsentience disciplines, with the occasional shaper or egoist.
Sahuagin might have been first in finding the Udoxia though, and they'd make for some powerful foes if they are all enhanced with psionic classes... |
| Warrax |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 23:59:07
Well, no one putatively knows the history of Seros in this campaign, so I can do as I please in that respect. :D |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 23:50:38
Possible. Sea of Fallen Stars broke with the tradition of no-sea-elf-mages; you could turn most of that over into psionics instead. You'd have to re-write at least some of Seros's history, but maybe the easiest way to do it would be to say that most of the wizards died with Coryselmal. To compensate, the sea elves dragged whatever they could from the newly-drowned Jhaamdath and taught themselves to use it. |
| Warrax |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 18:55:25
Yeah, but it's fallen, so it's all good as long as I don't raise it. The more so if I bury the fallen psionic empire under the Sea of Fallen Stars, yes? Then all the latent psionic potential could be found in like aquatic elves and the malenti sahuaghin. :D |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 18:29:08
I've never liked the idea of a psionic empire, which is why I completely forgot to mention it in my brainstorming posts. Psionics has never been that widespread in the Realms, and if there had been a psionic empire, even one that had had most of its population destroyed, there would have been far more psionics in the surrounding areas, which we know for a fact there were. Some of 3e's retcons worked fairly well, I never thought that one did.
But yes, if you're playing a 3e game, and you don't mind the cognitive dissonance, you could make some use of Jhaamdath and its legacy. |
| Warrax |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 18:28:52
Oooh, Sea of Fallen Stars was a fantastic 2e supplement, I remember it with great fondness. I'll have to look into the Jhaamdath, I do have Lost Empires of Faerun. Thanks, Bladewind! |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 17:51:32
The remnants of the Jhaamdathi legacy can be a great theme to run a Psi-campaign. Their ruins are partially submerged in the Sea of the Fallen Stars and the coastal regions around the Vilhon Reach. Having a working Udoxia in one such ruins found could prove to be a interesting and exciting focal point of a series of adventures. Udoxia were giant pillars around wich the Jhaamdathi citadels were built; they provided the populace with a "floating" psionic feat each day. A menial worker tasked to chisel stones could opt to choose the Focused Sunder feat during that day, while exchanging it for a Up the Walls feat when tasked with the construction of a towerlike structure.
I always found the Jhaamdathi empire to be a interesting example of how a psionic society can be a real powerhouse. So much so that they were deemed to be wiped out by the elven druidic and high mage circles active in their region. |
| Warrax |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 14:17:54
That's OK, I'll just have to INVENT psionics on the surface! Or send them suckas out into the planes at large.
And that githyanki angle could prove very interesting, shadow puppetmasters manipulating Prime forces... hmmmm.....
Yes, this could work. We're going to start much smaller than this, but as a series of themes to develop over time, this could definitely work. And you know what?
Listening to Richard Strauss and Richard Wagner while you work is AWESOME and intensely uplifting. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 13:58:58
Perfectly understandable, wanting to avoid the underdark. It's trick to run and has a really bad tendency of eating characters. And that's even when you're not running an adventure as insane as Night Below. Though it is notable for being a major underdark adventure where the drow don't show up once.
The difficulty is that there really isn't much psionics up on the surface, with the possible exception of the yuan-ti, so a lot of our suggestions are going to wrap back around to the underdark in one way or another. For instance, another place you might want to look for inspiration and ideas to steal is the 2e Monstrous Arcana: Illithid book and trio of adventures. It's been a while since I read them, so I'm not sure if any of it takes place above ground, but it's got lots of psionic lore you could mine.
If you want to go in the opposite direction, the githyanki and githzerai both have strong psionic traditions. They're also involved in a never-ending war against the illithid and their minions. They could be the party's silent backers, using them to strike at illithid plots on the surface, where an extraplanar being would be too conspicuous.
To fit it in with the paranoia theme you're workingon, you could have the war being fought in the yuan-ti's back yard. The PC's are trying to foil illithid plots in the cities of, say, Sespech, without betraying their presence to the city authorities, the yuan-ti agents, or the general populace, who would kill them on general principle. |
| Warrax |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 05:23:49
Yeah, I'm not doing Night Below. I have zero interest in the Underdark at this time. That's not where I want to take this campaign. It's too... expected, I guess, since that's the focal point of the majority of the psionic material not associated with the yuan-ti. I think it's that I simply don't want to deal with the drow or illithids at this point, nor am I especially inclined to roll with duergar or svirfneblin, or really any of the Underdark races right now. Night Below would be a really good place to start apart from that, for sure, for many reasons, but I'm looking for something a little different.
I'll probably take a look at the boxed set a little later, see what I can maybe pirate from that to add into what I'm currently developing though. |
| Aulduron |
Posted - 08 Mar 2012 : 04:22:21
Night Below starts off on the surface. I don't remember at which level they go down, but you can keep them up there as long as you like. You're gonna need wizards though. |
| Warrax |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 19:12:17
Kimmuriel was too awesome to ignore; he's right up there with Jarlaxle as one of the more entertaining characters in Salvatore's body of Realms work, IMHO. He's... unique, and has a countenance other than what you'd expect from a drow, and very much what you'd expect from a profit/goal-minded mercenary, which makes him not a conventional trope, which is nice. |
| Seravin |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 19:09:22
Wow, I thought I was the only Kimmuriel fan in existance. He's so awesome.
Anyway, having played Psionic characters in the Realms (but not a whole party); I'd definitely start the early levels without psionic enemies. And the idea of the Realms as being deeply suspicious and afraid of psionics is a great one. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 18:58:35
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
I'm still puzzled as to how d20 psionics with those crawling crystals, astral constructs and other junk can fit (without hammering sideways) into any setting, though.
-The same way Nishruu (Lost Empires of Faerûn) and Ruby Golems (Monster Compendium: Monsters of Faerûn) fit. |
| Warrax |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 14:30:00
quote:
Perhaps introduce another (NPC?) party member who practices and understands only magic, or perhaps introduce some sort of higher-level psionicist to serve as a mentor or patron (or manipulative antagonist) who employs the party on a regular basis.
This sounds like something I might definitely do.
quote:
But the other extreme might be wizards and scholars who seek to learn more about psionics, necromancers sharpening their scalpels in anticipation of anatomical study, kings and lords and tyrants and clergymen who seek to control, subvert, or destroy this new source of power. It might be wise for your psionic party to use their powers in a stealthy, sparing, and circumspect fashion.
This is everything I was talking about, absolutely! This is precisely what I want to do. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 10:13:20
Psionics are nearly unheard-of while magic is somewhat commonplace? I'd say the best way to emphasize the psionic flavour of the campaign would be to highlight the differences between psionics and magic, to provide opportunities where problems which are trivial for one would be nearly insurmountable for the other. Perhaps introduce another (NPC?) party member who practices and understands only magic, or perhaps introduce some sort of higher-level psionicist to serve as a mentor or patron (or manipulative antagonist) who employs the party on a regular basis.
[Edit]
I suppose witch-burning attitudes wouldn't be as prevalent in a world where magic is commonplace ... and where the witches could fireball a village into ashes within minutes. But the other extreme might be wizards and scholars who seek to learn more about psionics, necromancers sharpening their scalpels in anticipation of anatomical study, kings and lords and tyrants and clergymen who seek to control, subvert, or destroy this new source of power. It might be wise for your psionic party to use their powers in a stealthy, sparing, and circumspect fashion. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 : 09:52:49
IMO, run-ins with Yuanti may be easier where they are not entrenched yet - then their relatives are bound to notice and soon enough... well, PCs will get their psionic campaign. 
There's also a psionic school in Cormyr and some interest from Halruaans, mainly Daltim's initiative.
I'm still puzzled as to how d20 psionics with those crawling crystals, astral constructs and other junk can fit (without hammering sideways) into any setting, though. Except maybe Starcraft - but then, maybe that's only due to my knowledge of Starcraft being of "at a glance" depth. |
| Warrax |
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 : 21:19:10
That sounds very interesting, actually. I have that book, I'll have to take a look.
Thanks! |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 : 21:17:21
Sounds like an interesting campaign, and one that psionics lends itself to in a more magic-focused world like Faerun.
For locations, if that hasn't already been decided, you might want to look at the areas described in the 3.5 Serpent Kingdoms book. The yuan'ti are also psionic and have their claws into everything down there. Plenty of paranoia to go around, plus suspicion of anything serpentine or psionic. Your PC's could find themselves in an X-men situation: fighting to protect people who would burn them at the stake if they figured out the true source of their power. |
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