| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 30 Jan 2012 : 08:55:28
Assume you hate the Netherse in-game and want to see their Empire destroyed.
How would you go about it in game?
They've been built up to be almost invincible. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 17:07:20
Ouch.
I hurt my poor gamers because I described the Haluran nation as pretty much identical to Cyre in Eberron.
A blasted nation of doom, gloom, and refugees. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 07:39:49
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I'm confused.
I thought Halruaa had been annihilated because Good=Bad for Gaming in the POL setting.
Not much better or worse than Cormyr, really. Nor any less infested with potential troubles. It just got to be more high-level adventures. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 00:55:09
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I remember back in the day when you could keep track of a setting just by buying sourcebooks - funny, eh?
Actually, up until the "no sourcebooks for you!" maneuver of 4E, I felt that the sourcebooks were doing pretty good at keeping things up to date. Sure, they might not cover some of the smaller things... But if they'd given us the gazetteers that some have suggested, even that would have been covered.
And there's recent history to support such a move as well.
Despite the poor sales of White Wolf's 3e RAVENLOFT product line, it was proven that the five-volume Gazetteer series was among their best selling RPG items. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 23:54:13
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Clearly, I will have to take a full bottle of antacid and plunge into it eventually, if I hope to be able to keep up with 'Realms Canon'. The Thay trilogy is a another one I am not looking forward to (but am being forced to read).
I remember back in the day when you could keep track of a setting just by buying sourcebooks - funny, eh?
It depends, really, on what your priority is. Mine is pleasure. The primal purpose of reading should be that. To gain knowledge must just come second. IMO, of course. So if you think you'll die of boredom reading something you know you would not like, then don't force yourself. I didn't foolishly convince myself I'd enjoy very elf-centric novels, nor the second book of the new Elminster series, Bury Elminster Deep. But if you can sacrifice pleasure for the sake of a dose of knowledge just to keep up with certain discussions where such knowledge is fundamental, then it's really up to you.
My reading time is severely reduced due to my current "job." That's why I carefully choose what I read or reread these days. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 17:10:05
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I remember back in the day when you could keep track of a setting just by buying sourcebooks - funny, eh?
Actually, up until the "no sourcebooks for you!" maneuver of 4E, I felt that the sourcebooks were doing pretty good at keeping things up to date. Sure, they might not cover some of the smaller things... But if they'd given us the gazetteers that some have suggested, even that would have been covered. |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 17:01:59
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Own it, yes. Read it, no. My son bought it for me for my birthday back in August.
As I have said many times elsewhere, that series was written with the purpose that fans HAVE TO BUY IT (so it is self-serving lore), which is why I have avoided it for so long. Clearly, I will have to take a full bottle of antacid and plunge into it eventually, if I hope to be able to keep up with 'Realms Canon'. The Thay trilogy is a another one I am not looking forward to (but am being forced to read).
I remember back in the day when you could keep track of a setting just by buying sourcebooks - funny, eh?
I suppose you are referring solely to the Archwizard trilogy (and you would be right) ad not to the Twilight war. Paul's serie is my favorite so far, up there with Elaine's Songs and Swords. If not, I swear the Twilight War is a must-read, and nothing like you think it will be. Unless you reeeeally hate the Shades, and there's no helping that I guess.
I'm having similar thoughts regarding the Thayvian trilogy, and the Lady Penitent trilogy. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 16:30:39
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I'm confused.
I thought Halruaa had been annihilated because Good=Bad for Gaming in the POL setting.
Nah.
Everything 'detailed' by a certain author got nuked right off the planet. At least Evermeet got a new home.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Where is that from?
From Return of the Archwizards and Twilight War trilogies, which I suspect you haven't read.
Own it, yes. Read it, no. My son bought it for me for my birthday back in August.
As I have said many times elsewhere, that series was written with the purpose that fans HAVE TO BUY IT (so it is self-serving lore), which is why I have avoided it for so long. Clearly, I will have to take a full bottle of antacid and plunge into it eventually, if I hope to be able to keep up with 'Realms Canon'. The Thay trilogy is a another one I am not looking forward to (but am being forced to read).
I remember back in the day when you could keep track of a setting just by buying sourcebooks - funny, eh? |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 15:35:37
I'm confused.
I thought Halruaa had been annihilated because Good=Bad for Gaming in the POL setting. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 08:40:46
Also, shades hunt for all old Netherese toys, which automatically marks them as impending threat to all Netherese heirs and everyone capitalizing on Netherese caches - the main teams being Halruaa and Sshamath respectively. Halruaa was already mentioned, so to the drow magocracy.
They probably wouldn't fly into battle brandishing staves, but work behind the scene and in the long run turn out to be even more troublesome.
They should be aware of the problem on an early stage, via their Zhent partners. IMO when things get really hot, their approach would most likely be double-dealing and use of Zhents as ballista-fodder, provocation of Shade attack on Darkhold one way or another (preferrably by proxy) being somewhere on the list: immediately this closes their best trade route, but ultimately at least removes it from the exclusive ownership of an organization dedicated to controlling the trade.
Besides, the little backstabbers almost always make things more... jolly.  |
| Dennis |
Posted - 05 Feb 2012 : 21:37:31
In anybody's game, pretty much anyone can kill Telamont. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Feb 2012 : 21:02:39
Ironically, I'm going to dial DOWN the Shade's badassery.
Not because they're not badasses but I am a strong believer that you don't short change Cobra Commander to shill Serpentor. Manshoon, Ssass Tam, the Malgys, Fzoul, and so on are all badass in their own way and certainly just as intelligent as the Shades. Eventually, which is what happened, the Shades rapid expansion and acting like they owned the Realms was destined to come in contact with evils every bit as wily and cruel as them.
No, Manshoon can't take Telamont in a straight magic duel. However, Manshoon's hat in my realms is he's the single greatest evil manipulation mastermind type there is. That's why, setbacks aside, he's still kicking despite being opposed by Elminster and company directly for the better part of three centuries.
Likewise, the PCs are the best "spanners in the works" people in the world and can cut through the Gordian Knots of both archwizard's plans like no tomorrow. |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 17:24:06
Fair point, but as a whole, this trilogy felt rushed IMO. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 16:58:57
Sometimes, things are deemed as inconsistencies just because some people fail or refuse to see the possibilities. Which I'm guilty of, at times. |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 16:32:12
I wouldn't go too far to try to explain inconsistencies in the Archwizards trilogy. I think it wasn't very well done, and Telamont and his sons were nowhere near those presented in Paul's books in terms of badassery. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 15:58:54
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
That is possible. Even Telamont himself didn't detect the guise of the Malaugrym when they took the form of the princes. It was Galaeron who spotted them, and prevented the great casualty which the Shadovar would have suffered.
That doesn't make any sense after reading Shadow of the Avatar by Ed. Detecting a Malaugrym is easy if you know what to inspect, the gold glow in their eyes. Surely after having fought the Malaugryms for 2000 years, the Shades would have figured that out. Elminster taught how to do it to the knights of Myth Drannor and 2 Harpers (he just told them really), and the Malaugrym disguises were pretty much useless after that.
Since it was the first time I encountered the Malaugrym in novels or sourcebooks, it was hard for me to see them as a real threat after that. That and Elminster's head blew them all up.
There could be many reasons for that. One, the Malaugrym that disguised themselves as the shade princes were more powerful than any that El had encountered. Two, they might have sealed a temporary alliance with the phaerimm, who taught them spells to better cloak themselves with illusion (which they once used to pretend as the Chosen). Three, Telamont was rather confident that the wards on his city would immediately warn him of any undesirable intrusion, and thus didn't expect the Malaugrym to go through without his knowledge. |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 14:44:52
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
That is possible. Even Telamont himself didn't detect the guise of the Malaugrym when they took the form of the princes. It was Galaeron who spotted them, and prevented the great casualty which the Shadovar would have suffered.
That doesn't make any sense after reading Shadow of the Avatar by Ed. Detecting a Malaugrym is easy if you know what to inspect, the gold glow in their eyes. Surely after having fought the Malaugryms for 2000 years, the Shades would have figured that out. Elminster taught how to do it to the knights of Myth Drannor and 2 Harpers (he just told them really), and the Malaugrym disguises were pretty much useless after that.
Since it was the first time I encountered the Malaugrym in novels or sourcebooks, it was hard for me to see them as a real threat after that. That and Elminster's head blew them all up. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 14:28:49
That is possible. Even Telamont himself didn't detect the guise of the Malaugrym when they took the form of the princes. It was Galaeron who spotted them, and prevented the great casualty which the Shadovar would have suffered. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 04:38:29
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Dennis - Who said he fooled Telemont? I was talking about Telemont's son (who Charles has going to meet with Larloch). Besides, the Malaugrym are like Shades on steroids (I believe the Malaugrym have secretly been pulling their strings for years, but thats just my personal take on them).
The Malaugrym tried to obliterate the Shadovar during their two-millenia stay in the Demiplane of Shadow, but the Shadovar defeated them, partly because of their magical might and affinity to shadow, and mainly because of Shar's "divine protection."
Where is that from?
From Return of the Archwizards and Twilight War trilogies, which I suspect you haven't read.
I like the idea, myself, and I don't think that it conflicts with canon. Sure, the Malaugrym, as a group, were defeated -- but unless it says somewhere that they were utterly wiped out, then it's not unplausible that one or two may have infiltrated the ranks of the Shades. Heck, it may even be a very long term game played by the Malaugrym -- get someone on the inside, and then let them do bad things from within while the main group is "defeated" and has to withdraw. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 01:05:10
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Dennis - Who said he fooled Telemont? I was talking about Telemont's son (who Charles has going to meet with Larloch). Besides, the Malaugrym are like Shades on steroids (I believe the Malaugrym have secretly been pulling their strings for years, but thats just my personal take on them).
The Malaugrym tried to obliterate the Shadovar during their two-millenia stay in the Demiplane of Shadow, but the Shadovar defeated them, partly because of their magical might and affinity to shadow, and mainly because of Shar's "divine protection."
Where is that from?
From Return of the Archwizards and Twilight War trilogies, which I suspect you haven't read. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 00:31:08
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
The short version is, basically, it's important to keep everyone who WOULD be involved in something so huge as the downfall of the Netherese in mind. However, it's also important not to make it TOO complicated.
You don't want the players losing track of who is in charge over what.
In any case, I'm sure Thay will benefit strongly from it.
And that appears like aligning with canon, as Wizards seems to be 'empowering' Szass Tam in the novels where he's shown lately. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 10:46:08
The short version is, basically, it's important to keep everyone who WOULD be involved in something so huge as the downfall of the Netherese in mind. However, it's also important not to make it TOO complicated.
You don't want the players losing track of who is in charge over what.
In any case, I'm sure Thay will benefit strongly from it. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 05:24:01
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Dennis - Who said he fooled Telemont? I was talking about Telemont's son (who Charles has going to meet with Larloch). Besides, the Malaugrym are like Shades on steroids (I believe the Malaugrym have secretly been pulling their strings for years, but thats just my personal take on them).
The Malaugrym tried to obliterate the Shadovar during their two-millenia stay in the Demiplane of Shadow, but the Shadovar defeated them, partly because of their magical might and affinity to shadow, and mainly because of Shar's "divine protection."
Where is that from? |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 04:32:15
Astrology actually works in my realms, at least to a degree, as blessings done with the deities ascent or position work better and are weaker. Also, it's possible to do certain actions better with the favorable position of one's deity like going to war and so on. The bonuses +1 or -1 etc are pretty miniscule overall, however, which is why most people attribute it to bad luck or good fortune.
Bad day for business, though, when Beshaba is meeting Mask while Waukeen is in descent. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 03:39:30
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I imagine that might well be the case. The planets also suffer from weather patterns and so on variances depending on whether or not their deity is in ascendance.
Ooo! I like that. Earth-shattering or violent weather on one world could also mark two deities coming into conflict, for example... especially if two worlds/deities move closer together. Their relative sizes with respect to one another could determine more intense gravitational effects, which worshippers construe as one deity/world overcoming the other for a time. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 02:54:36
I imagine that might well be the case. The planets also suffer from weather patterns and so on variances depending on whether or not their deity is in ascendance.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Maybe the Netherese have been quietly undermined by the Abolethic Sovereignty (who is working with them due to shared tentacled Lovecrafty-ness) all this time as well.
I like that. Though I wonder how would you resolve the issue of distance. Portals aren't exactly the aboleth's thing.
Probably slaves and psychic communication. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 01:38:01
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Maybe the Netherese have been quietly undermined by the Abolethic Sovereignty (who is working with them due to shared tentacled Lovecrafty-ness) all this time as well.
I like that. Though I wonder how would you resolve the issue of distance. Portals aren't exactly the aboleth's thing. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 01:36:36
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
In my game, for example, past Selune's tears are planets named after the gods.
Interesting.
Do the relationships between the actual gods affect the pathways/orbits of the Tears?
I only ask, because that's something I've been considering with my own theories on connecting Realms gods with planets in Realmspace. I like the idea that there is some connection between both entities that reflect the relationships between deities. Falling out between gods results in planets shifting orbits slightly, or even away from each other, for example.
It's a curious theory, I know, and I'm still tinkering with it. [Especially since the resultant planetary shifts would undoubtedly have an impact on the world's inhabitants.] But it's a fun concept to explore nonetheless. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 01:25:11
I'm inclined to make the Malaugrym a group that would involve themselves in the aftermath of all of this. With the Far Realms and the Cthulhu-esque horrors, you make an interesting case they're what happens when wizards probe too deeply into Lovecraftian horrors. You could also make Ghaundaur the Astaroth of the setting with plenty of horrific abominations being his children from the good old days.
Maybe the Netherese have been quietly undermined by the Abolethic Sovereignty (who is working with them due to shared tentacled Lovecrafty-ness) all this time as well.
My choice to use the Heart of Karsus for his ritual is because I needed a reason that Telemont could justify casting Karsus' avatar. I presume Shar could have just given it back to him for her second "Kill Mystra and/or Selune" plan. Of course, I wonder if Shar is going to get a beatdown from either goddess after this. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 00:45:19
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Dennis - Who said he fooled Telemont? I was talking about Telemont's son (who Charles has going to meet with Larloch). Besides, the Malaugrym are like Shades on steroids (I believe the Malaugrym have secretly been pulling their strings for years, but thats just my personal take on them).
The Malaugrym tried to obliterate the Shadovar during their two-millenia stay in the Demiplane of Shadow, but the Shadovar defeated them, partly because of their magical might and affinity to shadow, and mainly because of Shar's "divine protection." |
| Wolfhound75 |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 20:23:52
Not to cross fantasy realms from Dungeons & Dragons to The Bards Tale but the description someone gave earlier of dropping a small sun onto the enclave brought back memories of this series of games that was such a staple of my younger years.
In The Bards Tale III: Thief of Fate there was a spell that was described in the game manual as "The FINEST in offensive obliteration, this spell annhilates your opponents for 2,000 damage points!" I thought it was particularly funny that the 'spell code' - a four letter code designed to call for the spell since this was before the common use of a mouse interface - was NUKE. What was the name of this finest of obliteration[evocation?] spells?
Gotterdammerung!
Such a fun word to say and since I'm certain I'm not the only one with a penchant for looking unfamiliar things up, I'll save you the trouble. Roughly translated from German it means "Twilight of the Gods". Given the earlier suggestion and the relative power of the Shade Enclave, I found it to be a particularly amusing cross-over and one that you could make a plausible argument for as being named quite perfectly.
Good Hunting! |
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