| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 20 Dec 2011 : 04:36:45
I confess, they do love taking refuge in audacity don't they?
The premise of my game is that I've been treating the Post-Spellplague Era as the worst time in Faerun history. Everything is falling apart and the gods of good are mostly dead, resulting in the Balance (which I rarely mention) being totally destroyed.
Well the PCs are currently on a "Hordes of the Underdark" esque mission to stop Asmodeus and rescue Tyr from his imprisonment there. The Maguffin for defeating the Lord of the Nine is his true name, which can be used to sever him from his divinity or force him to release Tyr or whatever (I'm going to give the PCs three requests).
Well, I said that half of Asmodeus' true name was known by Myrkul and the other half by Halastar Blackcloak. I expected the PCs to visit Myrkul's corpse and do a bit of bandying like "Mask of the Betrayer." Well, the PCs being PCs, decide they need something to bribe Myrkul with and decide "Hey, let's offer to get him back as a god."
To cut a long story short, a visit to their patron deity later and possessing an artifact, they resurrected Myrkul with the oath of serving Mystra in the same capacity Velsharoon did (only with a slightly expanded portfolio).
Mystra is still around in my games, albeit weakened. I'm totally unclear how to proceed from here, though I admire the Pc's craziness. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 27 Dec 2011 : 23:38:01
More like a unwitting partner to the PCs. He'll be taunting dreams and shadows for awhile.
Okay guys, I have the climax for my game prepared.
Myrkul's plot will climax when and if the PCs free Tyr and separate Azuth from Asmodeus, which if all goes well will result in them doing their last wild card and actually using Asmodeus' true name to destroy the Archdemon. Given who my players are, this is subject to change, but I could also have one of the gods do it.
This will result in Myrkul's spirit leaving one of the PCs and then absorb all the energy released by Asmodeus' death. Yep, Myrkul is now the King of Nessus and Ruler of the Nine Hells. He's an Archdemon who is a Greater God within his Realm but freed from all the restrictions of being a deity.
Worse, Bane and his new sidekick Garagos (who is a LE Exarch and more like Hextor in my games - due to Xvim's soul being placed inside him) show up and pretty much reveal that the PCs have been following their script the entire time. Bane is now ruler of the Nine Hells with Myrkul as his proxy and it was they who were manipulating events since before Tyr's killing Helm. It'll seem like a classic "Bad guys win" scenario.
WHICH I INTEND TO PROMPTY SUBVERT.
One thing I don't much care for is the way the gods of evil get to act out their porfolios with seeming no attempt for the gods of good to do the same. In this respect, I'm going to have Tyr reveal that Bane's assumption of the throne of the Nine Hells means he's now permanently trapped there with it becoming his domain instead of Achereon (where I had him normally). Hell, after all, was originally a prison for Asmodeus in my games after all.
Myrkul is even worse off as he can't even leave Nessus.
I'm tempted for Tyr to also briefly be possessed by Ao or simply point out that the ruler of the Nine Hells also has a responsibility that Asmodeus attempted to subvert - it is part of the PUNISHMENT for the Ruler of the Nine Hells to keep the number of Demons generated in the Abyss from overflowing. They're currently wrecking a lot of the Multiverse and things are getting bad.
Yes, the Dark Triad must now resume the Blood War. A never-ending, ceaseless, pointless fight. Garagos, alone, will be allowed to marshal their armies to fight it. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 26 Dec 2011 : 17:33:12
The PC had a 'walk-in'? Cool! 
Is Myrkul a sword, like what Mask did? A sort of 'Stormbringer' scenario. I think thats a pretty awesome idea (or is he still in the crown, or both?) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 Dec 2011 : 10:42:17
I can already envision the Hand and Eye of Asmodeus. Wonderful artifacts. Possibly more fun than a truename.  |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 25 Dec 2011 : 10:01:37
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Bane would indeed be a fine replacement for Asmodeus-in-Hell. However, LE powers from non-Realms pantheons might object. Vecna is another excellent candidate. Tough choice.
Is not Oghma already the god of truth in the Realms?
Well, Cyric is the one who is saying he's the God of Truth. Being the God of Lies, I think that's sort of his job to misrepresent his dogma to his worshipers.
As for non-realms deities, I generally minimize their importance in the setting. Mostly because I hint the Realms deities are multi-spheric and the big boys in the Multiverse.
Then again, Vecna is pretty awesome.
:) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 Dec 2011 : 06:27:51
Bane would indeed be a fine replacement for Asmodeus-in-Hell. However, LE powers from non-Realms pantheons might object. Vecna is another excellent candidate. Tough choice.
Is not Oghma already the god of truth in the Realms? |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 25 Dec 2011 : 06:13:33
Yeah, totally off topic, the one plot I'm going to use him in is the Knights of Samular having adopted the worship of "Cyron, the God of Truth." Basically, making them the biggest collection of Psychotic Hypocrites in the Realms with a theology based on BURN THE WITCH.
Cyric, of course, finds it delicious.
The problem is, I swear, this plot might just as well work with Bane. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 Dec 2011 : 06:10:02
quote:
Charles Phipps
Weirdly, I *LIKE* Cyric but for the life of me have never used him in a single plot after the Time of Troubles save as a generic source of badness. I think there's something about Cyric that you really can't use his followers seriously.
I SHOULD like Cyric too since his portfolio would make him the ultimate schemer god.
Cyric is an anomaly, yes. The first I ever saw his name, in the Avatar Trilogy, I thought "what a little girly name, this guy and the pretty-boy cleric gonna die". When I later saw his canon stats I shook my head in disbelief. I mean, certainly not all characters are powergamers ... at the least you cannot accuse Cyric of cheating ... but his rolls would be a throwaway at every gaming table I've ever seen; the quantitative parameters defining his character are laughably worthless. From his behaviour in the trilogy, the qualitative parameters defining his character are equally worthless. He was basically just a handy extra standing within arm's reach while Ao was handing out portfolios. Coulda (and shoulda) been anybody else.
Not just any old portfolio, mind ye, but a collection of some of the coolest ones the setting could offer. My players and I tried to give Cyric a chance, but his priests just weren't as cool as Myrkul's or Bane's no matter how you cut it. (To this day I wonder if Godsbane was a shortsword or longsword, sources differ.)
Then two more Avatar novels were written, putting Cyric right on center stage. Excellent novels, among the very best and most provocative Realms products ever written. Cyric's portfolios were then tweaked in some really interesting ways.
If only Cyric could be split like Tyche into two lesser deities. One could be the useless god of liars, fools, idiots, incompetants, obsession, and insanity - while the other could be the god of all the cool necro stuff. That would work for me. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 24 Dec 2011 : 15:45:15
Long story short, missing his soul. I ripped off Baldur's Gate 2 for the plotline, more or less. A lich-Drow removed the PC's soul as a child as part of an experiment to see if he could overcome the whole, "Liches don't gain levels" business. Which is, I point out, canon in my Realms.
He's currently now got the soul of a Shadow Dragon inside him.
A former Chosen of Myrkul who is getting a second chance at harvesting souls for his master.
Edit:
Amusingly, this will lead to a bit of bickering between the soul of the PC and his new soul when they finally do kill their Lich foe. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Dec 2011 : 15:09:33
Now that's an interesting development... What was the PC's issue that Myrkul was so sneakily able to capitalize on? |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 24 Dec 2011 : 12:09:37
BTW -
The adventure where Myrkul was "resurrected" happened yesterday. Thanks to the suggestions of everyone here, I had a lot of fun with what I wanted to do. Basically, Myrkul laughed them off when they suggested resurrecting him. Then he willingly gave them the portion of Asmodeus' true name - pointing out that a Devil as a Greater God would ultimately mean the end of the Multiverse as the destruction of the Outer Planes proved.
Myrkul, as former God of the Dead, had more professional pride than to let that happened.
He then proved to be a very popular Magnificent Villain (see TV tropes and substitute one word) by offering one of the PCs a cure to his current "campaign motivation." (every PC in my games has a single plotline they have to deal with). In this case, Myrkul used the PC's problem to raise HIMSELF from the dead and transform himself into a independent thing.
Worse, the PC in question is now linked to Myrkul and draining the lifeforce of all of those he kills - adding them to Myrkul's power as it regenerates in the Astral.
Currently, it's being worshiped as the god of Secrets, Forbidden Knowledge, Undeath, and Necromancy. However, it's not limited by the worship of its followers and it's currently unbound to any deity.
No idea what I'm going to do with it but it's a campaign issue now. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 05:32:47
quote:
I find the premise of this scroll engaging. Although I am personally far more parsimonious in applying divine intervention within my campaign. I have always been critical of Wizbro rattling deities around the Realms like pinballs, to me it seems heavyhanded and clumsy - and I daresay, a bit amateurish and uncaring - to drop divine nukes and craters all over the place when a nice little hoard of orcs or zombies in front of an evil cabal of really ugly magic-users would do just fine.
The Forgotten Realms is the only setting where I use the gods like in Greek Mythology. Basically, they're everywhere and they have their fingers in everything. I try not to overuse them but I do treat them like NPCs in the fact that they have personalities and the PCs may well interact with them on a semi-regular basis.
Of course, I enjoy having PCs who are Chosen, Ex-Chosen, or children of deities (again like Greek Mythology).
Hilariously, I use Liches and powerful wizards more conservatively because they're more prone to operate plots within plots.
quote:
Still, just because my definitions for epic playstyle are more conservative than other peoples' doesn't mean their definitions are less valid. It seems like CP and his gang are having tons of fun, and that's what it's really about. Plus Myrkul is a good all-rounder dark and manly sort of god, and Asmodeus is the classic übernasty (1E Asmodeus = 4E Chuck Norris), thankfully the plot doesn't revolve around Cyric or Blood Raven or that annoyingly overused bunch of Seldarine hippies - I'm interested in reading about where this all goes.
Then again, part of that just may be Ao smacking him down.
Plus, that's what convincing arguments from PCs are for!
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 05:10:49
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Maybe he wants Jergal's job. 
I always thought Jergal was something more then a deity - some sort of Avatar of death itself. If Jergal is some sort of necrotic Primordial, then perhaps that is what Myrkul is after.
Think about it - Jergal didn't want the job anymore, and now, neither does Myrkul. Isn't that a bit odd? There must be something that both have discovered - something better. Maybe their relationship with death has given them a glimpse of whatever lies beyond godhood.
Nothing says Myrkul didn't want the job... What we know is that once he was free of the limitations of divinity, he was digging it. That's not at all the same thing. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 04:25:58
Oh, in my game, I flat out just use the human deities as the Seldarine. I substitute Lathander for Corellon, Selune for Sehanine, Sune for Hanali, and Silvanus while keeping the elven names. It's not that I don't like the elven gods, I just think the human "nature deities" have better personalities.
Plus, it fits my personal idiom the elves are totally arrogant about their special relationship with the gods while they're helping humans too.
Weirdly, I *LIKE* Cyric but for the life of me have never used him in a single plot after the Time of Troubles save as a generic source of badness. I think there's something about Cyric that you really can't use his followers seriously.
Call me crazy.
I SHOULD like Cyric too since his portfolio would make him the ultimate schemer god. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 03:24:44
I find the premise of this scroll engaging. Although I am personally far more parsimonious in applying divine intervention within my campaign. I have always been critical of Wizbro rattling deities around the Realms like pinballs, to me it seems heavyhanded and clumsy - and I daresay, a bit amateurish and uncaring - to drop divine nukes and craters all over the place when a nice little hoard of orcs or zombies in front of an evil cabal of really ugly magic-users would do just fine.
Still, just because my definitions for epic playstyle are more conservative than other peoples' doesn't mean their definitions are less valid. It seems like CP and his gang are having tons of fun, and that's what it's really about. Plus Myrkul is a good all-rounder dark and manly sort of god, and Asmodeus is the classic übernasty (1E Asmodeus = 4E Chuck Norris), thankfully the plot doesn't revolve around Cyric or Blood Raven or that annoyingly overused bunch of Seldarine hippies - I'm interested in reading about where this all goes. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 03:16:13
quote:
If you are having fun in the game, that is good. That you ask for help because the players went off the map is clearly understandable. Letting the PCs make deities strikes me as so very wrong that it makes it hard for me to even follow this scroll. The DM determines the deities, the DM determines if a new deity arises, the PCs (and your players) do not have the right to impose a deity on your game.
I follow the school of thought that the PCs *SHOULD* be able to do anything that they set out to do from overthrow the Zulkirs of Thay to make Unther into the world's largest bowl of tapioca pudding. After all, they're the "Stars" of the game. The question, of course, is HOW they go about this and how much they have to do.
Usually, their plans are anything but stupid and this wasn't the case of such. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 03:12:48
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I confess, they do love taking refuge in audacity don't they?
... I'm totally unclear how to proceed from here, though I admire the Pc's craziness.
Well if the PCs control the game, you just have to go with the flow.
Maybe that is why I see a few other threads popup that make no sense to me. The DM is greater then AO and to allow the PCS to cause what appears to be a meltdown in campaign bothers me. The PCs under certain versions of Editions are allowed to try everything and the DM set the chance of success. Older Editions a 20 natural role was good for many things, hitting AC, saving throw. The newer Editions DC has been used where a role of 20 is not good enough, one might need a 40 or 50. Of course modifiers apply, however something that appears to destroy or at least offers a major alteration to your game world should have had a DC of some thing of 150, something AO could do.
If you are having fun in the game, that is good. That you ask for help because the players went off the map is clearly understandable. Letting the PCs make deities strikes me as so very wrong that it makes it hard for me to even follow this scroll. The DM determines the deities, the DM determines if a new deity arises, the PCs (and your players) do not have the right to impose a deity on your game. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 03:11:59
Very nice write-up.
Honestly, were the PCs to erase Asmodeus, I'd state that given the Lord of Nessus is the embodiment of evil then he'd eventually be reborn from the accumulated evil of the cosmos. Basically, spontaneously regenerating (though of questionable origins as the same Asmodeus).
Still, it would do nasty things to the hierarchy of Baator and result in a very brief civil war. Also, Glaysia would be extremely upset.
The other option, I suspect, would be that Bane would immediately set up shop at the bottom of Nessus and REVEAL to the PCs that the whole issue of finding the True Name of Asmodeus was something he was involved in from the very beginning. Indeed, it was he who used Myrkul and Halastar as a catspaw.
Then again, I like the idea of Bane as the ultimate master of LE! |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 02:07:42
I think it would take a hell of a lot more than his truename to really kill Asmodeus. It might be enough to summon him (oops), manipulate him (haha), bind or imprison him (for a while), banish him (for a century, maybe) ... but truename alone is just not enough to destroy him. He is utterly sovereign and supreme in Hell, he is the manifested cosmic avatar of pure personified Lawful Evil, he has not been displaced by even the combined hateful might of the other arch-devils, nor by the infinite howling legions of pure Chaos in the Blood War, nor by countless aeons of cooperative assaults by countless Good-aligned gods and celestials.
I think the only thing Asmodeus gained from Azuth (aside from a few useful arcane secrets) was the divinity needed to assert himself as a proper god within the Realms. Without it he was (and would be) still just a devil bound to only manifest within the Realms (or any other world away from Baator) by being subject to the same constraints as any other devil - chief among these being subject under the control of another will through utterance of his truename. Asmodeus could already command infinitely more power (and, in theory, the ultimate allegiance of every Baatezu in the cosmos) while in his throne on Baator ... Azuth's power would be just a drop in the bucket ... but Azuth's power in the Realms was considerable, while Asmodeus's influence there was limited.
I would personally say that Myrkul might be able to usurp once-Azuth's power, and thus cripple Asmodeus's growing influence in the Realms. But should Myrkul ever find himself anywhere on Baator ever again he would be exposed to Asmodeus's full and unforgiving wrath.
Azuth + Myrkul portfolios (give or take, plus a dash of devil) would make an interesting evil god of necromancers and warlocks. Much more interesting than dull old neutral boring Kelemvor (plus, incidentally, one whose very existence defies Kelemvor, pah screw natural life/death cycles and just necro all you want!). A much more exciting villain than simpering Cyric the Incompetent. Give priests of Myrkzuthmodeus some hellfire to play with and Red Wizards would be lining up to worship him.
[Edit]
Let's not forget that Asmodeus's arch-rival is Mephistopheles, and Meph has managed to recently secure some divinity from a Realms god as well. A much bigger Realms god than Azuth. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 01:24:09
Maybe he wants Jergal's job.
I always thought Jergal was something more then a deity - some sort of Avatar of death itself. If Jergal is some sort of necrotic Primordial, then perhaps that is what Myrkul is after.
Think about it - Jergal didn't want the job anymore, and now, neither does Myrkul. Isn't that a bit odd? There must be something that both have discovered - something better. Maybe their relationship with death has given them a glimpse of whatever lies beyond godhood. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 22 Dec 2011 : 04:44:52
In any case, guys, I've decided to go with the idea that Myrkul is going to be playing along with the PCs and Mystra for the time being but actually intends to become something entirely different from a deity - a kind of embodiment of Necromantic Power that will be completely independent of worshipers.
Either that or he's going to do something otherwise as nefarious such as moving his essence amongst his worshipers so he's a gestalt. Basically, something that won't be as subject to the whims of fate as before.
I'm debating whether or not the "Myrkul God" that the PCs will deal with and Mystra will be Myrkul at all or just a creation of his that genuinely IS as loyal as it appears and is just a distraction.
Though I worry that's too convoluted.
Edit:
I am tempted to simplify it though that Myrkul, actually, will just manipulate the PCs to using Asmodeus' true name to kill the Ruler of Hell outright (destroying Azuth in the process) and this will allow Myrkul to step into the role and become the Ruler of the Nine Hells.
It's not QUITE the job he held before but it has a lot more job security.
(FYI - in my universe, the Realms is part of a larger multiverse but the Realms deities are pretty damn powerful and all of them are pretty much multi-spheric so their conflicts are HUGE) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 11:51:49
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Another idea for this topic, though... Perhaps the resurrection of Myrkul is someone else's plot. Perhaps another deity wants to use Myrkul in some capacity, and needs him to be a deity to do it. The Asmodeus stuff is irrelevant to this other deity's plans...
In fact, the idea of giving Myrkul back his power and divinity might just be so someone else can take it.
Eh, that doesn't work for me simply because it was the PCs who came up with it.
Ah, but that's what this sneaky deity wants them to think! Was it really their idea when it was his manipulations to put them in the position to think of it? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 11:50:26
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
While I do prefer the not-a-deity-and-loving-it version of Myrkul that is canon, I can't find fault with your idea. It's not the route I'd go, but I don't find it objectionable. 
I'd have been fine with this version if not for the fact that he's sponsoring priests. When I read that, I just rolled my eyes and like, "Then he's a deity living in the Crown of Horns! Really, people!"
It was a nice change from the usual, "Oh, I want to be back and kill everyone!" though.
Do you speak of the Horned Harbinger PrC? Because that PrC gets no priest abilities other than those focusing on undead, all the class features focus on the undead, and the requirement to pick up this PrC is to come into physical contact with the artifact containing a former deity... I don't see that as sponsoring priests. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 08:19:59
Thanks,
There's a fun story about the True Name bit that highlights the humor of my party. Basically, where they learn Myrkul and Halastar got the information just required a Plot Device. Soooo, I had the PCs chasing the "Codex of Mystra" for the first part of the campaign, basically an artifact supposedly containing all of Mystra's holy teachings - uncorrupted by the past century of chaos (desperately needed after the Spellplague).
Well, in the Codex, there was a message directly written to the PCs before the Spellplague by Mystra. The message listed all the various things the PCs would need to save the world (including weapons located in the House of the Triad, where the last Bhaalspawn were, and - of course, Asmodeus' true name's locations).
To justify why Mystra needed the PCs, I ruled the nature of the information was so dangerous that Mystra obliterated her own memory of the location of Asmodeus' true name along with a spell that would keep her from ever knowing the location - apparently trusting only the PCs to be able to go after it. Presumably, she also magicked up some protection for them as well in advance of the Spellplague when the book was written.
It became like the anime Slayers when the PCs talked to Mystra about raising Myrkul and their justification.
Priest of Mystra PC: We need you to do it so we can get the portion of Asmodeus' true name Myrkul knows.
Mystra: Strange, you said something but I didn't hear it.
Priest of Mystra PC: I SAID...
Wizard PC: Please, tell me you're not speaking louder.
Priest of Mystra PC: Oh right, she did the obliteration thingy. Nevermind.
Doubly funny they're doing this in-character and they're 22nd level.
Edit:
I'm a big fan of Azuth by the way and I hope the PCs are able to use Asmodeus' true name to free him. I actually ruled that Asmodeus, magnificent schemer that he is, is only having as much success as he is in the past 100 years because he not only possesses Azuth's divinity but he also possesses Azuth's knowledge.
I just treat Azuth as THAT great a repository of mystical knowledge which Asmodeus has been exploiting. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 08:10:50
quote:
How did they find out about Myrkul knowing Asmodeus' True name?
That's an excellent question. The PCs learned that he said she said somebody knows something about somebody else ... what is their source? Why didn't (or doesn't) this source use the knowledge, or give/trade/sell it to anyone else? How do the PCs know that chasing after Myrkul and Halaster doesn't play into somebody else's schemes? What if this information is simply wrong?
I would suggest that the truename of Asmodeus is (also?/instead?) known by Azuth, it would explain a few things. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 07:15:12
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't recall Myrkul sponsoring priests, once he was a fallen power...
The Prestige Class for the Crown of Horns is what I was referring to.
You could even tweak the "Servant of the Fallen" feat from Lost Empires of Faerûn for a similarly-desired effect. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 07:14:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Another idea for this topic, though... Perhaps the resurrection of Myrkul is someone else's plot. Perhaps another deity wants to use Myrkul in some capacity, and needs him to be a deity to do it. The Asmodeus stuff is irrelevant to this other deity's plans...
In fact, the idea of giving Myrkul back his power and divinity might just be so someone else can take it.
Maybe Cyric's looking to cash in on the old portfolios of Myrkul that he once held. 
...
Still, I'd expect Myrkul would wise up eventually. I'm sure he'd remember a few "tricks of the trade" in terms of how deities operate. He could probably use that knowledge to his advantage. Especially when he starts perceiving "the plan" behind the return of his divine might. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 07:02:20
How did they find out about Myrkul knowing Asmodeus' True name?
If Asmodeus wants Myrkul's old power (after all, how different is 'god of death' to 'god of hell'?), then it may have been Asmodeus that planted the seed that lead them down this path. What if Asmodeus wants to be the Realms 'god of the dead'? Maybe this is a play he always wanted to do, but was afraid of Mystra (for whatever reason).
And if Asmodeus gets what he wants, he may just grant their wish anyway. He's not such a bad guy, just misunderstood.
And in the end, he will still get them... he always does.... |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 05:42:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't recall Myrkul sponsoring priests, once he was a fallen power...
The Prestige Class for the Crown of Horns is what I was referring to.
quote:
My idea for Xvim/Bane is that Bane 2.0 isn't Bane at all -- it's Xvim posing as Daddy to get his cred.
The early Realms books were kind of funny, really. Poor Xvim first has to sponsor a bunch of Banite priests then he has to institute a bunch of purges. THEN he has to use the Bane Fog because, apparently, people STILL worship Bane more than him.
So that entirely works for me.
quote:
Another idea for this topic, though... Perhaps the resurrection of Myrkul is someone else's plot. Perhaps another deity wants to use Myrkul in some capacity, and needs him to be a deity to do it. The Asmodeus stuff is irrelevant to this other deity's plans...
In fact, the idea of giving Myrkul back his power and divinity might just be so someone else can take it.
Eh, that doesn't work for me simply because it was the PCs who came up with it. I am interested in what will be the aftermath of whatever they do to Asmodeus, though.
If they manage to destroy him or de-deify him, that will really open up a lot of portfolios. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 05:35:29
I don't recall Myrkul sponsoring priests, once he was a fallen power...
My idea for Xvim/Bane is that Bane 2.0 isn't Bane at all -- it's Xvim posing as Daddy to get his cred.
Another idea for this topic, though... Perhaps the resurrection of Myrkul is someone else's plot. Perhaps another deity wants to use Myrkul in some capacity, and needs him to be a deity to do it. The Asmodeus stuff is irrelevant to this other deity's plans...
In fact, the idea of giving Myrkul back his power and divinity might just be so someone else can take it. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 21 Dec 2011 : 05:11:20
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertWhile I do prefer the not-a-deity-and-loving-it version of Myrkul that is canon, I can't find fault with your idea. It's not the route I'd go, but I don't find it objectionable.
I'd have been fine with this version if not for the fact that he's sponsoring priests. When I read that, I just rolled my eyes and like, "Then he's a deity living in the Crown of Horns! Really, people!"
It was a nice change from the usual, "Oh, I want to be back and kill everyone!" though.
quote:
originally posted by Markustay One must wonder why Asmodeus had to go that route in the first place. I find it strange that such a powerful being needed Azuth at all.
My interpretation of the whole "Are Archdevils as powerful as the gods?" thing is to go with the Second Edition "They're equivalent to Lesser Gods in their Realms" one. Asmodeus saw the chance to seize Azuth's power and from there used the Old Mage's knowledge and the chaos in the planes to do some Vecna-style reshaping of the universe.
I also treat Asmodeus as selflessly devoted to evil and misery as Torm is to good. So, really, it was just taking advantage of an excellent opportunity to **** up the universe.
I do, definitely, however put Archdemons and Solars beneath gods. As much as I love the various attempts to make Asmodeus the biggest bad that ever existed - I tend to put the Demons and Devils as as a definite level below the divine. Asmodeus ascending to be as strong as Shar and Lathander is BAD news for the Multiverse.
quote:
EDIT: Have you considered that maybe the Myrkul they brought back isn't the real Myrkul (who preferred to be trapped in the crown)? It could be something along the lines of Bane/Xvim. Entirely up to you, of course, but it could be an 'out' (and a nasty surprise for your PCs later on). It could have just been a 'wayward' Avatar that broke-away from its master (prolonged detachment will eventually lead to autonomy). And for some reason, that scenario is ringing a bell.
Now I am picturing a confrontation between 'classic' Myrkul, and Myrkul 2.0
Interesting idea and one to definitely consider. A part of me is actually considering that Myrkul allowing himself to be resurrected as a deity is actually him just settling some unfinished business - possibly that he's genuinely annoyed at how much magic and the Realm of the Dead has been totally screwed up in his absence.
Of course, I go with the idea not EVERYONE is into godhood. Larloch, for example, is utterly uninterested in being a divinity in my games even though he could have ascended millennium ago.
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Though the PCs will never know it, the Bane in my games is actually Xvim having absorbed so much of Bane's essence he THINKS he's Bane. Not sure if that's really a difference, though. |
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