| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 05 Dec 2011 : 23:13:11
So... I was looking into the whole Animate Dead thing, and I read some interesting things about that spell. It can create Skeletons, and Zombies. Then it made me think: "How do I create a Wraith, Ghast, Ghoul or Wight??? Or something even more potent???
Also, reading about the creation of skeletons in MM page 225 it says: "Hit Dice: Drop any Hit Dice gained from class levels (to a minimum of 1) and raise remaining Hit Dice to d12s. If the creature has more than 20 Hit Dice, it can’t be made into a skeleton by the animate dead spell.
Does this mean that I can’t animate a Great Wyrm Red Dragon??? What about a level 21 human fighter? And if I can’t with the animate dead spell, then how do I do it???
Then again, under Zombie, on page 265 it says: Hit Dice: Drop any Hit Dice from class levels (to a minimum of 1), double the number of Hit Dice left, and raise them to d12s. If the base creature has more than 10 Hit Dice (not counting those gained with experience), it can’t be made into a zombie with the animate dead spell.
This to me looks as if I can turn a human (base HD 1), regardless of class levels, into a Zombie... Correct? But then how high CR can a zombie get and how do I calculate it??? It says the following under advancement: Advancement: As base creature, but double Hit Dice (maximum 20), or — if the base creature advances by character class.
How Am I to understand this???
I hope you guys can help me a bid, cause I've never really used undead or animation before!
THX
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| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 11 Dec 2011 : 21:40:10
For human skeletons with more than 1 HD you'd need to find a human race with monstrous HD, something like an advanced or true neanderthaler. Or you could research a new spell, such as Fortified Animate Skeleton, that creates a more sturdy skeleton. But the DM might agree with the designers of the game that a skeleton is as weak as the basest creature from which it gets its structure.
For more advanced undead that retain some semblance of the fortitude of their former host I direct you to the Curst (same HD as the original creature including class levels) and the Dread Warrior (4 HD but must be cast on a warrior of at least 4 levels and less than 24 hours dead) in Monsters of Fearun. The Curst is created through a combination of bestow curse and a wish or miracle spell, the Dread Warrior through a unique create greater undead spell possessed by Szass Tamm. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 11 Dec 2011 : 15:22:05
Can Summon Undead be used to summon a Gargantuan or Colossal undead??? |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 06 Dec 2011 : 22:12:42
I've also thought about how to animate even more powerful undead, via this feat:
Superior Augmented Undead
You are able to gather and focus even greater amounts of negative energy, into the undead you animate and create, making them extremely powerful.
Prerequisites: Necrology 9 ranks, Augment Undead
Benefit: Whenever this feat is used in conjunction with animation or creation of undead (whether through a spell or other necromantic feat), it will grant the undead creature 1 HD for every 3 caster levels.
Would this be too much???
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| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 06 Dec 2011 : 21:57:43
So... I have come to acknowledge that Animate Dead can only animate a race or creature with a maximum HD of 20. Exept if using the Draconomicon rules to animate dragons!
But if I want to animate some skeleton warriors which is HD 10 or 15... How would I do that=? Is that just rearanging Create Undead??? |
| Diffan |
Posted - 06 Dec 2011 : 04:30:24
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
So... I was looking into the whole Animate Dead thing, and I read some interesting things about that spell. It can create Skeletons, and Zombies. Then it made me think: "How do I create a Wraith, Ghast, Ghoul or Wight??? Or something even more potent???
Create Undead allows the construction of more potent undead creatures. In addition to this are the Summon Undead spells I thru V which the latter allows you summons of Shadows, Vampire Spawn, and Wights. Ghoul Gauntlet deals damage to a target until it dies and then raises as a ghoul under your control indefinitly.
Additionally, the Dread Necromancer class (Heroes of Horror) allowed other aspects of undead creation to happen and slowly turned your character into a Lich in 20 levels. They also gain abilities to command and create a lot of undead as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Also, reading about the creation of skeletons in MM page 225 it says: "Hit Dice: Drop any Hit Dice gained from class levels (to a minimum of 1) and raise remaining Hit Dice to d12s. If the creature has more than 20 Hit Dice, it can’t be made into a skeleton by the animate dead spell.
Does this mean that I can’t animate a Great Wyrm Red Dragon??? What about a level 21 human fighter? And if I can’t with the animate dead spell, then how do I do it???
Drop any Hit Die gained from class levels means that a 21st level Human Fighter would be raised as a Skeleton with 1d12 Hit Die. Additionally, a Great Wyrm Red Dragon has more than 20 HD. You could, at most, raise a Young Adult red dragon to a Skeleton and it would have 19d12 HD for Hit Points.
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Then again, under Zombie, on page 265 it says: Hit Dice: Drop any Hit Dice from class levels (to a minimum of 1), double the number of Hit Dice left, and raise them to d12s. If the base creature has more than 10 Hit Dice (not counting those gained with experience), it can’t be made into a zombie with the animate dead spell.
This to me looks as if I can turn a human (base HD 1), regardless of class levels, into a Zombie... Correct? But then how high CR can a zombie get and how do I calculate it??? It says the following under advancement: Advancement: As base creature, but double Hit Dice (maximum 20), or — if the base creature advances by character class.
Basically levels don't count when using necromancy to raise undead creatures. It reverts back to the basics of 1 HD, which automatically goes to d12. There are certain creatures that start out with Monstrous Hit Die, such as the Minotaur. I believe he starts with 6 levels of Monstrous Humanoid. Those "would" factor into turning him into a zombie. So if you come across a Minotaur ripe for the Animate Undead spell, you could turn him into a zombie and he would have 12d12 Hit Die. Due to the constraints of the spell, it has too many HD (12) and thus wouldn't be allowed to be raised with this spell. An Owlbear though, could since it only has 5 HD. If it's raised with Animate dead spell, it would gain 10d12 HD (5x2=10). To find out the appropriate CR for a Zombie Owlbear, you'd have to cross-reference a table found HERE (which would be CR 3)
In all honestly, those spells are designed to be hard because I feel undead conjuring/summoning was frowned upon by the designers. Your best bet is to just play a Dread Necromancer who gains benefits for creating Undead. Also, your gonna want to look at Libris Mortis for other Undead shenannigans such as when they die, they blow up and deal cold damage, their attacks slow targets, and ways to self-heal using Negative Energy. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Dec 2011 : 03:51:13
Right.
Animate dead is limited in power. There are (theoretically) more potent spells available to turn more powerful creatures into zombies and skeletons (since there are non-Dracolich animated Draconic skeletons in canon). Speciality creatures like Liches and Animus must be created with highly involved rituals, and normally it is a different ritual for each one (in other words, the spell is created for the specific creature). Other types are created accidentally (or accidentally on-purpose, like Vampirism).
I think the ruling regarding zombies was for monsters with class levels - I wouldn't apply that rule to player-race NPCs (but that is just my opinion).
The Complete Book of Necromancers (2e) may be of some help. There were many highly specialized animation spells in there (there was a lower-lev version for small animals, for instance). |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 06 Dec 2011 : 02:16:42
Well it might vary some from version, in general Wraith, Ghast, Ghoul or Wight make more of the same with their touch. As to advancement, NPCs are people as well, so can advance in monster levels.
I am not certain about other rules questions right now, there clear ight be error in rules/ Clearly not the first time an event of poor rules being printed. |
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