| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| chamber101 |
Posted - 16 Jun 2011 : 22:34:19
I apologise if this has been asked before, I have searched the forums and cannot see this coming up previously.
I am looking for the loose translations of the Drow House names.
I have checked Underdark, Drizzts Guide, Menzoberranzan, and Drow of The Underdark and have found nothing.
Dragon issue 267's drow name generator provided a couple of answers if the house name generator is to be trusted:
Baenre - Blessed by Dark Powers
Kenafin - Sworn to the Web
Godeep - Clan of The Underdark
Auvryndar - Blood of The Black Hearts
Freth - Friends to Challenges
Ousstyl - Heirs to The Pits
Do'urden - Walkers in The Darkness
DeViir - Champions of Dominance
Hun'ett - The Sisterhood of Magic
Teken'duis - Delvers in The Whip
I have also tried various drow-common dictionaries so maybe this lore does not exist.
I do not read the novels so this is where one of your honourable selves may be able to aid me.
Thanks |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 05:07:18
Well, remember also that RAS is not the only one who has created or used drow names. Elaine Cunningham and others have created and used quite a few of their own- all of them canon. The meanings ascribed in that table (and the one(s) found on the Net are really just copies of that original list) are not so much mottoes as they are descriptions of the family's main business, interests, powers, etc. As some have mentioned, surnames usually have some sort of meaning- mine, for example is McCann (the original spelling was Mac Annadh), which originally meant "son of the storm", but that meaning is now mostly unknown outside of Gaelic-speaking regions, and probably only rarely by Gaelic-speakers themselves. And remember that the names used in the novels are mostly the SHORTENED forms of the House names- as Do'Urden is the short "informal" version of the much longer full House name for Drizzt's family, which was Daermon N'a'shezbaernon. Which undoubtedly has a much more complex meaning all its own. Also, for drow Houses, "Blessed by", "Walkers in", or other such appellations are likely akin to "son of" meanings for RW names. It's like the meaning for a name like Victoria being "victory over water". It might sound a bit complex or not make much sense to us, but it makes perfect sense to them, and is understood by all drow, complete with the nuances of meaning that are inherent in the name. |
| Thieran |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 18:20:05
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-What I mean by that, is that certain surnames, like the ones mentioned, don't have particular meanings, other than what they say, or what they said before being contracted. Johnson, "Son of John", simply means, "Son of John". White, is simply a color. A surname in a separate language, in this case, Drow, need not have a fancy and flowing translation. Just as 'Johnson' is simply "Son of John", 'Baenre' need not be 'Blessed by Dark Powers', and may be as simple as being a singular name (perhaps contracted) without specific or inherent meaning.
Ah, now I see what you mean. Just for additional clarification: without "specific" meaning (in the sense of "complex"), sometimes yes, but always with "inherent" meaning, as "simple" as it may be. 'Baenre' never is "just" 'Baenre', it always means something, even if it is simply "Daughter of X", as Wooly pointed out.
Names (both of the first and family variety) are never "just" words, even if their meaning is relatively straightforward, lost or now unclear. But, as LK says, it needn't be a fancy one. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 16:48:09
-Exactly, Wooly. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 16:16:51
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Thieran
Well, obviously all names have a meaning, and thus can be translated if their meaning is still known, and you give good examples: "Smith" refers to a profession and not only could be translated into other languages but is even used as a surname there as well (German "Schmidt", for instance), "Jones" means "Son of Jon", "Robinson" is "Son of Robin", "White" and "Black" are (non-)colours (cf. e.g. Italian surnames "Bianco" and "Nero").
Of course, in some cases the etymology of a name is lost or debated, but there always is one.
-What I mean by that, is that certain surnames, like the ones mentioned, don't have particular meanings, other than what they say, or what they said before being contracted. Johnson, "Son of John", simply means, "Son of John". White, is simply a color. A surname in a separate language, in this case, Drow, need not have a fancy and flowing translation. Just as 'Johnson' is simply "Son of John", 'Baenre' need not be 'Blessed by Dark Powers', and may be as simple as being a singular name (perhaps contracted) without specific or inherent meaning.
Alternatively, it could be a drow version of "Son of" something, or perhaps "Daughter of" something. It could also be something to do with location -- perhaps there was once a city or region called Baenaer, for example, and the name Baenre once meant "of Baenaer". |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 15:53:33
quote:
Originally posted by Thieran
Well, obviously all names have a meaning, and thus can be translated if their meaning is still known, and you give good examples: "Smith" refers to a profession and not only could be translated into other languages but is even used as a surname there as well (German "Schmidt", for instance), "Jones" means "Son of Jon", "Robinson" is "Son of Robin", "White" and "Black" are (non-)colours (cf. e.g. Italian surnames "Bianco" and "Nero").
Of course, in some cases the etymology of a name is lost or debated, but there always is one.
-What I mean by that, is that certain surnames, like the ones mentioned, don't have particular meanings, other than what they say, or what they said before being contracted. Johnson, "Son of John", simply means, "Son of John". White, is simply a color. A surname in a separate language, in this case, Drow, need not have a fancy and flowing translation. Just as 'Johnson' is simply "Son of John", 'Baenre' need not be 'Blessed by Dark Powers', and may be as simple as being a singular name (perhaps contracted) without specific or inherent meaning. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 12:54:22
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Keep in mind that some of the names from that article can be translated in multiple ways, particularly the given names of individual drow. But yes, those name translations are indeed "canon", AFAIK. Since it was in Dragon, and specifically used name parts from the FR novels, it can certainly be considered an accurate and reliable source for name translations. I've used it many times, and several of the characters from the novels have their names in the article, either whole or in part. (Most of them have to be put together from pieces in the generator to find them, but they are there!) For example, each member of the Do'Urden clan is translated in that generator, as well as several of the Baenres and others. (Jarlaxle's name is VERY interesting when translated!)
I think the exact same table can be found in the internet... or at least a very close one.
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| Thieran |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 10:17:48
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
Agreed, in that they're mottos, as opposed to direct translations. Since when do surnames have to have direct translations, anyway? I know mine doesn't. Plenty of generic ones (in English), like Smith, Jones, Robinson, White, Black, and so on, don't, either.
Well, obviously all names have a meaning, and thus can be translated if their meaning is still known, and you give good examples: "Smith" refers to a profession and not only could be translated into other languages but is even used as a surname there as well (German "Schmidt", for instance), "Jones" means "Son of Jon", "Robinson" is "Son of Robin", "White" and "Black" are (non-)colours (cf. e.g. Italian surnames "Bianco" and "Nero").
Of course, in some cases the etymology of a name is lost or debated, but there always is one. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 06:52:15
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As far as the examples you offer, it appears to be more a creed or motto that a House gaining power uses to explain the meaning of the clan. The way they gained power is what the House being about, as oposed to a direct translation of a Drow word.
-Agreed, in that they're mottos, as opposed to direct translations. Since when do surnames have to have direct translations, anyway? I know mine doesn't. Plenty of generic ones (in English), like Smith, Jones, Robinson, White, Black, and so on, don't, either.
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
But yes, those name translations are indeed "canon", AFAIK. Since it was in Dragon, and specifically used name parts from the FR novels, it can certainly be considered an accurate and reliable source for name translations.
-I would disagree, in the sense that (if they have actual direct translations, which is questionable, as mentioned in above posts) I would consider only what their creators intent was. What I mean is, R.A. Salvatore created House Do'Urden, for example. The direct translation, if there is one, might be X, but that info might have never made it into the books because of NDAs, space constraints, etc. If Salvatore meant Do'Urden to mean X, but secondary content has it meaning Y, even if Y is the only information we have, I'd still say X is truer, because it's content direct from the creator him/herself. If that makes sense. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 04:53:59
Keep in mind that some of the names from that article can be translated in multiple ways, particularly the given names of individual drow. But yes, those name translations are indeed "canon", AFAIK. Since it was in Dragon, and specifically used name parts from the FR novels, it can certainly be considered an accurate and reliable source for name translations. I've used it many times, and several of the characters from the novels have their names in the article, either whole or in part. (Most of them have to be put together from pieces in the generator to find them, but they are there!) For example, each member of the Do'Urden clan is translated in that generator, as well as several of the Baenres and others. (Jarlaxle's name is VERY interesting when translated!) |
| chamber101 |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 03:14:05
I think the literal translations are not how they would be spoken. I beleive that maybe the language is full of nuances and metaphors spoken in context. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 03:10:22
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
"Walkers in The Darkness" is an odd choice for a translation or a motto... They're drow. If they weren't walking in the dark, that would be rather noteworthy!
I'm inclined to think that the "Darkness" aspect of the translation may refer less to the absence of light, and more to the darkness apparent in the souls of those who belong to House Do'urden.
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| chamber101 |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 03:06:23
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
"Walkers in The Darkness" is an odd choice for a translation or a motto... They're drow. If they weren't walking in the dark, that would be rather noteworthy!
haha indeed, thats what I thought, 'Friends to Challenges' and 'Delvers in The Whip' seemed a bit odd too but the examples I gave are from the house name generator in Dragon 267.
The House names found so far are (and the ones I am hoping to find) from this article: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_drow_houses
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| Kentinal |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 01:42:17
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
"Walkers in The Darkness" is an odd choice for a translation or a motto... They're drow. If they weren't walking in the dark, that would be rather noteworthy!
*chuckles* Maybe they hide in shadows better then other Drow or might refer to gaining wealth and power from night raids on the surface. In many ways it strikes me as more like a herald interpenetration based on how a House gained power. A thing similar to what was placed of a shield, the coat of arms that in RW most can not come close to fulfilling. There again that is my best guess based of what I know about Drow language, I certainly can be in error. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 01:29:28
"Walkers in The Darkness" is an odd choice for a translation or a motto... They're drow. If they weren't walking in the dark, that would be rather noteworthy! |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 01:23:11
Alas, while there is lore concerning names there is no resource that clearly translates all House names. Between some searches I have found a translation of a House name that does not appear to match any canon.
As far as the examples you offer, it appears to be more a creed or motto that a House gaining power uses to explain the meaning of the clan. The way they gained power is what the House being about, as oposed to a direct translation of a Drow word.
Example to google some thing is a fairly recent term that replaces search engine in discussion of what might be found on the net, it does not matter if you use Bing or Yahoo search engine it is likely to say I googled for this information.
Without looking at source code of that name generator I clearly can not say much more except the names do not appear to follow normal Drow syllable usage.
GIGO is possible. |
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