| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 29 May 2011 : 22:23:19
Hi everybody!!
again a theme, eventually bespoken similar before, which keep smy mind busy.
With all the lets say more savage humanoids, we very rarely see really high levels appear ( above ten, to say )
do you think this is just because they do not advance this far in any adventurers career ( or anything where they collect experience ) or that they just exist in the "savage" societies, like the Human, elven and other high-end chars?
As an example it would be very surprising for any orc or other humanoid ( except he has seen him in action ) to know Vandergahast or King Azoun. or elminster and the likes.
do you think it possible, that a similar amount of high leveled, minotaur, orc, lizardfolk, goblin, kobold etc. exist, just without us short-minded racists taking recognition of them?
looking forward to your replies. |
| 6 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 30 May 2011 : 07:20:13
I don't think the realms are full of powerful beings, a 3rd level warrior is an elite temple guardian in my eyes. Beings who are high level are exceptionally rare in my mind. Orcs, kobolds, goblings, etc. don't build large cities with population enough to warrant high level priests and the like in my opinion. Black Lorog is the most powerful shaman of a large group of orcs, for example. Out of 2,000 orcs at Dark Arrow Keep they list what they envision as the most powerful beings living there... below Obould Fighter 8, Cleric 6, Rogue 9, etc. are the powerful characters of a fortress with 2,000 residents. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 30 May 2011 : 07:13:04
Black Lorog is 13th level Adept as detailed in the Silver Marches. I think she is the most powerful normal humanoid (orc, goblin, kobold, hobgoblin) I can think of! There is also a powerful goblin rogue in war of the spider queen living in Maerimydra.
In my opinion the savage races would not have as powerful spellcasters, but as a DM someone could make up whatever character they want. If the PCs were higher level you could adjust Black Lorog to be higher level, for example. Or make her a better class like cleric or wizard.
Seeing the realms as a real functioning place I would think that the savage races aren't as capable as becoming great like Vanderdaghast or king Azoun. I guess i'm speciesist = P Especially kobolds and goblins who are smaller, less intelligent, and so forth than the main races. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 30 May 2011 : 07:03:34
thanks for the replies so far.
but let us move away a bit from the monsters with too many level adjustments.
I mean, for example ( talking 3,5e here ) in the sword & fist, there is the "tribal defender" prestige class.
it is specially mentioned that they are much more common at the savage humanoid races.
but entering the prc would make him tribal leader almost at lvl1 for most humanoid races.
for example, the neidlig tribe in the stonelands, is said to have lycanthropic shamans / witch doctors, who are capable of summoning fiends - big ones.
I agree on Obould, his level seems far too low to mirror his deeds.... especially winning over drizz't in 1on1 or at least making a stand.
the basic question here is, do you guys think that within the "civilization" of the humanoid races or monster races, also really famous individuals / adventurers exist? or not.
a temple to their monster gods, why should it not have high level priests? a strong tribe of XXX in the XXX mountains, why should there not eb a bunh of mighty ( really mighty ) fighters, rogues, rangers etc. |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 30 May 2011 : 05:24:28
-What you say certainly can be a factor, that many "monster races" such as Orcs, or Trolls, or Minotaur live 'brutal' lives that aren't necessarily conducive to living long, healthy lives and progressing in level as a result. Moreso, though, is what was mentioned, that such individuals aren't completely unknown, but they just aren't really highlighted much, because they they don't really fit the mold of things that aren't relegated to a few descriptive sentences and a stat-block.
-Also, another thing to keep in mind, in 3e: Like Diffan said, a lot of "monster races", in D&D, start out the equivalent of a party of Nth Level adventurers, and have a Level Adjustment. So, while a Troll might be a 2nd Level Fighter, like Arrk, his Troll Level Adjustment leaves him the equivalent of a 7th Level creature. Having only two class levels in Fighter might not look impressive, but he's stronger than what the numbers seem to suggest, because of his race. This is probably why a lot of "monster races" don't have D&D classes, per se, rather than just having their levels and challenge rating bumped up, as monsters. A 20th Level Troll Barbarian is going to have all those 20th Level Barbarian abilities, plus the +5 effective levels of Troll abilities. To some NPC developers, adding class levels like that might simply be overkill. Take Cephalossk, the Creedmaster of the Venerator Illithid of Oryndoll. It's an Ulitharid to begin with, so it's pretty damn powerful. Add on top, it's an 18th Level (2e) Cleric of Ilsensine. That's an insanely powerful creature! |
| Diffan |
Posted - 30 May 2011 : 04:49:39
We don't see them because, as Wooly put it, they aren't sexy. By this I mean that they rarely are written about in novels nor are they seen in supplements. Take Arrk from the FRCS, he's a level 2 Ftr and a CR 7 because he's a Troll. He's special because he left his tribe and became a wandering mercenary. So unless someone is going to be differet from the norm (*cough*Drizzt*cough*) you'll rarely find them listed anywhere.
That's not to say that there aren't monstrous-humanoids that are in the paragon tier.......uh...i mean level 10 and up. I estimate that Obould was easily level 10+ to do the sort of things he does (I know he's 9th level, but I think thats farly inaccurate). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 May 2011 : 04:28:11
I dropped a 12th level minotaur fighter into Waterdeep... Of course, he went there because it was a character of mine, and I decided to move him to Waterdeep, since I love that city... 
He and his friends now own a "haunted" tavern, and some nearby buildings, where they live.
I don't think we've seen too many humanoids with levels, much less high-level ones. Humanoids just aren't sexy enough, and once your character is past a certain level, you only worry about humanoids if there are many, many of them. |
|
|
