| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 30 Mar 2011 : 15:03:56
I came to the epiphany the other day on a frustration in DMing I was putting myself through.
The group was at 3 players so it made sense to let them each run two characters. I encouraged them to make one character as a primary and the other as a lesser character. The primary is your voice in the group and the game unless the secondary has some special knowledge or advice. So when someone wants to make a lizardfolk barbarian, the secondary slot is perfect for him.
A lot of the group filled their secondary character slot with archers...
Anyways. One of the players' secondary character, through a random impetuous action, has become important ~ he's got a nice deep plot now. It wasn't really his fault, but when the group was in Hulburg trying to deal with its pool of darkness, he agreed to Lord Hulmaster's offer to marry his daughter.
I have been subconciously offering primary characters' a level of protection from getting slaughtered when facing opponents. I will typically gun for the secondary. I don't want to single a player out with attacks, but as long as they have someone to run after the fight, then who cares?
But, I think I've really backed myself into a corner with this mentality. So, the epiphany I had was akin to this:
It's not the actions a character might take in the future that's important it's the actions he has already taken.
I have plotlines and ideas based around the future of Hulburg. Will the campaign look the same if this Hulmaster heir dies? No, but the plotlines still exist. Even the adventures I have in mind will still play out, just possibly with different hooks.
So, that's what I came to as far as conclusions go. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 21:03:50
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Makes me want to launch d20's at the DM with a mini-trebuchet.
Like THIS one.
I used to have a really nifty, working pewter catapult... I loved that thing, and it would have looked great with this DM's screen. Sadly, that catapult was one of many things lost in the fire.
I want this DM's screen, just to set it on a shelf somewhere. I've not rolled a D20 in-game in years, but that just looks cool!  |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 19:13:58
Makes me want to launch d20's at the DM with a mini-trebuchet.
Like THIS one. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 19:11:00
I believe he was speaking Dr.Seussian.
I could build something nicer for far less money. My painting skills aren't Golden-Demon worthy, but they're not half-bad, and my sculpting is pretty darn good (if I do say so myself).
For people without such skills, and money-to-burn, its pretty cool (and I would use it as a basis for whatever I built).
I think it would make too many player's want to "storm the DM's fortress!"  |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 16:38:31
Oh, that explains it. I don't speak French. Remerciez-le de ma part pour les oranges. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 16:35:37
I was referring to the maps, props, and monsters I constantly rotate through the player side of my "menu" screens. Idle player eyes are then automatically drawn to props which keep them focussed on thinking about their adventure. DM screen maps are scaled for the general region (and conveniently mark all the railroads); one-shot dungeon crawls are done on the table (I've put a heavy glasstop on the table with square or hexgrid underneath and we all scribble on the surface with washable markers). |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 16:18:10
I'm with you there Arik. I need my little cheat sheets. But, what in the world are flungers, capdabblers, and smendlers? 150 bucks is absurd! |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 16:14:27
No charts, tables, lists? No flungers, capdabblers, and smendlers? Just glitzy little digs for your figs?  
It'd be less costly to build such a fortress out of LEGO. I'll just stick with functional over fortified. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 15:27:55
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
Not to hijack this thread, but is anybody else seriously considering odering this little beauty?
Billed as The Ultimate DM Screen, Gale Force Nine has made even the Hackmaster GM screen look pale by comparision. This is certain one DM screen that would distrack my players from watching my dice too closely.
My only problem is smuggling it into my house. While my wife doesn't game anymore and has only a foggy idea of how much gaming stuff I actually have, I can't believe she'd buy that "I've had this in the garage for years and just dug it out the other day."
Oh, that is pretty... But way too expensive. If I had $150 to drop on gaming material, I'd be getting some new Warmachine stuff, first. The tokens and templates GF9 makes for Warmachine are nice, though. |
| Halidan |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 14:23:11
Not to hijack this thread, but is anybody else seriously considering odering this little beauty?
Billed as The Ultimate DM Screen, Gale Force Nine has made even the Hackmaster GM screen look pale by comparision. This is certain one DM screen that would distrack my players from watching my dice too closely.
My only problem is smuggling it into my house. While my wife doesn't game anymore and has only a foggy idea of how much gaming stuff I actually have, I can't believe she'd buy that "I've had this in the garage for years and just dug it out the other day." |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 03 Apr 2011 : 00:08:16
Just use a DM screen. Preferably one bearing distracting/useful maps and props and artwork (or biohazard signage and images of impaled intruders) on the player-side. Or be like me and demand all dicing (including mine) be clattered upon the Cookie Sheet Of Doom where none (including me) may ever fudge or budge the numbers we behold. Don't misunderstand me, I'm sometimes (er, often) a "confrontational" DM ... but my players respect my integrity in rolling dice. Random outcomes are the whole point, change the tables instead of the dice. |
| ChieftainTwilight |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 22:51:58
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Yes, I have noticed that players sometimes roll quantum dice which produce different results when directly observed.
Ahhhhhhh...
So you've experienced the players who scarf-up the dice they just rolled at near super-sonic speeds (the sheer blur of which would make most ninja jealous) and yell "a natural 20!", before anyone else has a chance to even remotely glance their way?
Gotta love those guys..... 
I'm the DM who does that. but nobody can say poopy about it, cause I'm God! XD
Mod edit: Language, please.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 22:35:19
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Yes, I have noticed that players sometimes roll quantum dice which produce different results when directly observed.
Ahhhhhhh...
So you've experienced the players who scarf-up the dice they just rolled at near super-sonic speeds (the sheer blur of which would make most ninja jealous) and yell "a natural 20!", before anyone else has a chance to even remotely glance their way?
Gotta love those guys..... |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 06:00:38
-Had a character who I made up who I was fond of die. Crazy Ali al-Hassan, a Calashite Beguiler, was immolated by a Fireball. Was the first time I ever had a character die. I made up a new character, Thaelaeven Dawnsong, a Star Elf Duskblade, and make sure to always have a "back-up" character ready, that way, when/if my character dies, I can jump back into the game as soon as possible. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 04:45:55
LOL! I once did something similar with my very first PC. She lasted all of ten minutes. Killed two orcs, but got done-in by a squirrel in a tree; she was trying to kill it for lunch. Turned out it was carnivorous, and was thinking the same thing- lunch....
I've only killed one PC, but I've had three of my own die. Course, two of those were brought back. Not the one eaten by the squirrel, though. RIP, Wildfire.....
I've also fudged rolls on occasion as DM, but usually only if things get TOO hairy for the PC's due to bad luck. Stupidity is often painful in my games, even if not (usually) deadly. Then again, it's also often funny in my games- like the halfling wizard used as a cat-bed by an evil druid's cougar, or the Warforged bashing in random doors in a dwarven city getting beat on the head with a frying pan by an angry dwarf-woman! |
| Halidan |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 20:40:57
quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
Just to be clear, I don't advocate killing players. I've been tempted, sure, but it becomes problematic to hide the bodies and the game suffers when you have to bribe the other players with XP. It can all become very unbalancing.
Oops...Well, I guess my secret is out. The good thing is now I may actually be able to find room for a garden in my backyard. |
| Laerrigan |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:22:37
Egad, an entire party doing something my wizard would have done early in his adventuring (maybe even now, under the right/wrong circumstances)....But at least that's a purely IC quirk . And of course, even if the DM decides not to make the squirrel something sinister (or at least blamable) after all, there's always the possibility of the party stumbling upon something/someone in the chase...even if it's just a shortcut to the town where the adventure's supposed to begin. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 18:47:50
Yes, I have noticed that players sometimes roll quantum dice which produce different results when directly observed. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 18:34:12
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
For instance, I watched a session being hosted by my bro-in-law for his friends, wherein he described the countryside they were passing en route to the town (where the adventure was supposed to begin). They never got there.
When he told them a squirrel was watching them from the trees, they spent the next five hours (of real-time) chasing a damn squirrel through the forest (because they had convinced themselves it was a spy for some evil mage).
A little information can be a dangerous thing. 
A least it wasn't a gazebo...  |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 18:30:44
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
If the party knows that in a particular tower on a particular hill in an out of the way place there is a horrid fiend chained there that has killed many adventurers through the years, it is up to them whether they go there...not up to me.
Except for one small thing; Observer Effect.
"the act of observation changes the phenomenon being observed"
You cannot tell your PCs about said fiend, and not expect them to go there. Their knowledge alters their ability to make independent (unbiased) decisions.
I have actually run into this problem numerous times, and occasionally to great comic effect. RPG players are by their very nature both inquisitive and suspicious.
For instance, I watched a session being hosted by my bro-in-law for his friends, wherein he described the countryside they were passing en route to the town (where the adventure was supposed to begin). They never got there.
When he told them a squirrel was watching them from the trees, they spent the next five hours (of real-time) chasing a damn squirrel through the forest (because they had convinced themselves it was a spy for some evil mage).
A little information can be a dangerous thing.
LOL...very true.
The gist of the matter is that either players will eventually wise up or they won't.
I think you are right though...most simply don't... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 18:00:13
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
If the party knows that in a particular tower on a particular hill in an out of the way place there is a horrid fiend chained there that has killed many adventurers through the years, it is up to them whether they go there...not up to me.
Except for one small thing; Observer Effect.
"the act of observation changes the phenomenon being observed"
You cannot tell your PCs about said fiend, and not expect them to go there. Their knowledge alters their ability to make independent (unbiased) decisions.
I have actually run into this problem numerous times, and occasionally to great comic effect. RPG players are by their very nature both inquisitive and suspicious.
For instance, I watched a session being hosted by my bro-in-law for his friends, wherein he described the countryside they were passing en route to the town (where the adventure was supposed to begin). They never got there.
When he told them a squirrel was watching them from the trees, they spent the next five hours (of real-time) chasing a damn squirrel through the forest (because they had convinced themselves it was a spy for some evil mage).
A little information can be a dangerous thing. |
| marc-end |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 16:13:38
My DM used to kill PCs alot. He killed my halfling ranger. He found him annoying cause he always hit the mark, the damage was nowhere near that of the barbarian. In the same campaign he killed the Tank almost every session. He just asked: Do you mind if I kill your Dwarf? The player responded that he didn't care cause he wasn't attached to his character.
So in one campaign he killed (from first to last). Player 1s The paladin, player 2s the cleric, my barbarian, 1 dwarven fighter, 1another dwarven fighter, my halfling ranger, 1 dwarven barbarian, 2 the cleric, after wich the player left, then we had 2 new players, one a rogue who got killed after 1 hour of playing. Then he killed the other players character the session after. Then 1st the dwarven barbarian again. Then he killed my cleric, wich he rolled 2 3s for my abbilities. The 2 players left and the old one came back. He rolled an purple dragon knight.
Noone got killed till the Big Villain. The cave would explode and everybody who ran 20 feet or slower would die. The only one that ran 20 ft was the PDK. Then he activated an abbility and ran 5 foot harder. Ye should have seen the look on the Dms face, hillarious!!!
The only one who never got killed was the DMs sister the Druid. And that was the one who disserved it. Throwing smokesticks and hide under a table....You got Wildshape for f... Sake!!!!!!!! |
| Laerrigan |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 07:18:38
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I didn't say "not be upset" I said "throw fits..." which is far different.
Ah---my oversight, there, or perhaps just assumption of hyperbole like the Pac-Man example. I've only DMd for two players thus far (and played under a few DMs), but one PC I was tempted to kill at least once or twice, and the other I've killed more than once, and also killed my own PC that I run alongside NPCs. Such deaths don't happen often (over the course of the centuries of in-game time and more than one timeline), and not even necessarily because of something the PC does stupidly, but I always try to work story around it, make it significant, and bring them back in interesting and plot-twist-filled ways that further develop the characters and situations.
So, Rhewtani....Bringing the secondary PC back, perhaps in some unconventional way, might be another possibility...? It would allow you to kill him if needed and keep him in later plot arcs and add some new twists in the process. Perhaps with some interesting reactions from the other PCs, depending on how you do it. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 06:54:21
I didn't say "not be upset" I said "throw fits..." which is far different.
I HATE when a favorite character of one of my players gets killed...it just sucks; but I'm not going to go out of my way to keep players alive, I see that as their job.
My job is to make sure that encounters I plan for them are viable and not something that is obviously going to cause death. If the party knows that in a particular tower on a particular hill in an out of the way place there is a horrid fiend chained there that has killed many adventurers through the years, it is up to them whether they go there...not up to me. |
| Laerrigan |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 06:26:30
The goodness or nastiness of PC deaths really depends on who's involved in the game and what they're seeking.
Speaking to the idea of someone having mental problems if they don't like permanently losing a PC they've put a lot more work into than when they play Pac-Man....I don't get much fun out of having a deeply-developed, personal favorite PC simply die without at least being brought back (that experience can certainly have an impact on a character). My husband can have loads of fun now and then in rolling up a random character and playing a one-night game where everyone sees how hilarious they can make the absurdities---including PC deaths---that happen, all within canon rules. That just doesn't draw me, though I could probably participate for a night and get some laughs out of it if that's what's going on. But then, I do try not to have my PC do plainly stupid things, and I like to work with the DM and other player(s) to keep things holding together and moving forward with fun for all, maintaining some degree of realism in choices and reactions as if my PC really doesn't want to die (go figure!) if it can possibly be avoided....I hate it when a player does that show-boating, or seems to be daring the DM to kill their PC. I've seen a DM give way to that, and I've given way, myself, early in my DMing experience, but I'd have a serious talk with such a player nowadays and would give them the IC results they seem to want if they keep at it.
Aside from that, I'll occasionally fudge if I really want a particular split-second event to go a certain way for the story, especially to deliberately lengthen or shorten an encounter of some kind---but often I'll simply bring in something IC that changes circumstances. I also get a kick out of shaping the story as I go, though, playing off of IC happenings rather than sticking to a series of things that HAVE to happen. Having a PC (or NPC) do/say something that completely alters the course I'd planned is pretty much a way of life in my DMing.... |
| ChieftainTwilight |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 05:11:58
honestly, I personaly don't know what to say about my PCs... they used to be damn near unstoppable, so I'm used to powering games that stack the odds so unrealistically against them and try my damnedest to so much as make them break a sweat. nowadays, i find that I have to tone down my natural inclination to do this, and I still fudge dice here and there to keep the PCs alive while keeping the game exciting. o_O;
I can guaruntee you, a good 85% of all DM Dice Rolls in my game are total lies. XD I can make a 5 into a crit, or a nat 17 into a fumble by just mandating it. I just roll my dice and scopp it up with barely a glance at it and say what I want it to be. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 22:08:37
I've had a few players I've wanted to throttle, but never any I wanted to kill.
Oh... and in every case, it was an 'adult' (I use that term quite loosly here). I've DM'd for children - persons under 16 - more often then not*, and I've found I have had less problems with them pulling stupid stunts (and getting mad when their PC got 'hurt') then with people who "should know better".
And I am 100% with Halidan on this one. If its just really bad dice-luck, then I will fudge things, but if they do something STUPID (especially if they are being greedy or just plain 'show-boating'), then all bets are off and they can get killed for all I care.
If it looks like they still had potential, I may allow them to retrieve the body (for later Rez).
*One of my favorite things to do is teach the game to new players. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 21:16:54
Yeah, I've killed PCs. Many PCs over the years.
But no players. I've headbutted one, tripped over another, played innumerable pranks upon sleepers, but never actually killed one. Certainly there have been a few moments where I've been sorely tempted. |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 20:55:36
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
I've killed more than a few players since I began DMing in 1977
Just to be clear, I don't advocate killing players. I've been tempted, sure, but it becomes problematic to hide the bodies and the game suffers when you have to bribe the other players with XP. It can all become very unbalancing. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 20:39:01
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Death is only a temporary setback if the players seriously feel the character is worth the effort and expense.
Actually, my players usually accept death with dignity. There's a sort of running contest over who died in the most painfully overkill manner; a bonus XP award is given (to the player's next character if necessary) when records are broken. Current record holder is Itharax "Boarcleaver" (deceased), a dwarven battlerager who suffered a (theoretical) 217 points of damage after dying from an overdose of Thayvian Bombard. Four shots, mixed with grog, consumed orally ... as part of an idiotic drinking game in a blast crater that was once a small tavern on the road to Eltabbar.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
That is awesome. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 20:27:56
Death is only a temporary setback if the players seriously feel the character is worth the effort and expense.
Actually, my players usually accept death with dignity. There's a sort of running contest over who died in the most painfully overkill manner; a bonus XP award is given (to the player's next character if necessary) when records are broken. Current record holder is Itharax "Boarcleaver" (deceased), a dwarven battlerager who suffered a (theoretical) 217 points of damage after dying from an overdose of Thayvian Bombard. Four shots, mixed with grog, consumed orally ... as part of an idiotic drinking game in a blast crater that was once a small tavern on the road to Eltabbar. |
|
|
