| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Saxmilian |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 05:51:36
Ok u use the figurines to summon the creature or the figure becomes the creature. If the creature dies 100' away do u have to go get it in figurines form or is the figurines safe in your hand? |
| 29 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 05:36:32
lol, anyone wanna buy a brown stinky encyclopedia set?
Since I dare not look myself, is the entry about black panther figurines or is it specifically about Guenhwyvar? As mentioned before, Drizzt and Guenhwyvar are referenced and NPC statted often in 2E lore but I don't know of any generic "black panther figurine" entries. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 04:57:05
Aww, that's awful, Arik. My condolences on being unable to use those wonderful tomes. I can relate, however, as one of my male cats had a bad habit of going wherever he darn well felt like, and managed to get a few of my source-books as well- fortunately, only a little bit, but I eventually had to get rid of him. He bathed some of my comics and novels, too, so, umm- yeah.... Bye-bye kitty. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 27 Mar 2011 : 05:11:37
quote:
Alystra Illianniis
Actually, there IS a mention of an onyx panther figurine in the Encyclopedia Magica vol 2, under the Figurines of Wondrous Power section ... Guenhwyvar's figurine is listed along with all the other known figurines of that time (2nd ed source). It gives stats for the figurine and for Guen herself ... There is also a set of three opal cats (Mother and two kittens) in that source, which you apparently missed from the souces you mentioned. Don't know where it was originally mentioned, though.
That's a little ironic. My group's Encyclopedia Magica (all four vols, but no other books) were, uh, sprayed by somebody's cat some years ago while on loan. Given my somewhat severe allergy to feline beasts I am rather loathe to remove them from their hermetic ziplocks, I am instinctively repulsed and discomfited by the merest whiff of these particular books, I suppose I should employ somebody to scan them for me, lol. Thus, these figurines and (many other wondrous magics) have been denied to my group. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 27 Mar 2011 : 03:19:04
1988's The Savage Frontier labels Guen statuette as a FOWP, too, while also clarifying that Drizzt uses it to call the panther forth from the statuette. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 27 Mar 2011 : 02:36:37
@ Arik- Actually, there IS a mention of an onyx panther figurine in the Encyclopedia Magica vol 2, under the Figurines of Wondrous Power section. Page # escapes me ATM, but Guenhwyvar's figurine is listed along with all the other known figurines of that time (2nd ed source). It gives stats for the figurine and for Guen herself. However, the information in that source is basically the same as in the Heroes' Lorebook, so one can use either source. But it IS listed among the canon figurines!! There is also a set of three opal cats (Mother and two kittens) in that source, which you apparently missed from the souces you mentioned. Don't know where it was originally mentioned, though.
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| BEAST |
Posted - 27 Mar 2011 : 00:21:41
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Aye, and I've already quoted some snippets from the relevant entry.
I read those snippets, but what I was specifically wondering is if the rules have always described FOWP's as transforming into their associated animals, or if that was only assumed or implied. The DMG (1E) snippet didn't make that clear, so I was hypothesizing that maybe that was part of why RAS didn't preserve that aspect with Guen's figurine.
Something else I've noticed is that in the earlier stories, Drizzt usually would set the figurine down on the ground before calling or dismissing Guen--but not always. This has caused some fans to question why Drizzt would ever set the statuette down at all.
In the novel Exile, Drizzt holds the statuette up to a keyhole in the door to an evil wizard's castle, and the summoned Guen's field of smoke wafts into the castle and confronts the wizard. The game rules logically tells us that a figurine's wielder sets the figurine down on the ground because the fig becomes a great animal. (Imagine trying to hold a fullsize nightmare steed or elephant in your hand!) But with RAS's variation, the figurine remains a figurine, while a line of mist emanates away from the fig.
Therefore, it wouldn't make sense to ever part with the statuette, and doing so would only seem to be a completely unnecessary risk. (Remember how he had to go and recover the fig in the Cryshal-Tirith tower rubble at the end of The Crystal Shard? Why did he ever set it down in the first place?)
It now appears that earlier on, RAS was preserving the one aspect of the FOWP rules in which the wielder must set the fig down, but when he added the smoke aspect into the mix, that rendered the ground placement aspect moot--and yet, he retained it, anyway. I'm guessing that he did so merely for dramatic effect: it signals the reader that something cool is about to happen, like a magician's flourish of white-gloved hands just before the pay-off.
But the ground placement aspect doesn't appear to be necessary at all.
In fact, in the latest novel Gauntlgrym, Drizzt is never said to actually set the fig down. In one passage, he actually pulls forth the fig while on the run toward some enemies and summons Guen. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 12:13:08
The wondrous red herring has brought many years (and tears) of joy to my gaming table.
Rather than describe it in proper detail I shall let ye ponder and wonder upon its functions. |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 12:08:24
There is also an Opal Frog in the Dungeon adventure The Death of Lashimire.
Red Herring?!? What good is that? |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 07:03:22
quote:
BEAST
Does anyone have a 1E DMG for reference here? I hypothesize that maybe RAS's depiction of Guen's figurine of wondrous power might've matched an earlier, less-refined description, and only diverged as the rules changed.
Aye, and I've already quoted some snippets from the relevant entry.
To answer one of your questions about an onyx black panther figurine: Not published in the 1E or 2E DMG, UA, or ToM ... to my knowledge not published anywhere in 1E/2E except of course in entries about Drizzt and Guenhwyvar. Drizzt never truly conformed to 1E/2E rules (there were a few "special" rules unique to him), it seems likely that the same logic applies to Guenhwyvar. RAS created a new figurine of wondrous power (and I daresay a much cooler one than the crap in the DMGs) and probably explored/stretched aspects of Guenhwyvar which would never apply to any "standard" figurine. For starters, Guenhwyvar is somewhat sentient, capable of learning and remembering and even emoting ... other figurines (as written in the DMGs) are little more than mindless tools, not much different from any other summoned monster or animal. The 1E DMG was written in High Gygaxian and this section of the 2E DMG was repeated almost verbatim (the 2E text resembles Common slightly more than Thorass, lol, see top of this page for an example).
For completeness — the figurines listed in these DMGs are: Ebony Fly, (pair of) Golden Lions, (trio of) Ivory Goats (of Travel, Travail, and Terror), Marble Elephant (4 types in 1E; 2 types in 2E), Obsidian Steed (Nightmare in 1E; Charger or Destrier in 2E), Onyx Dog, and Serpentine Owl. Figurines listed in other 1E/2E/3E/3.5E sources are: Bronze Griffon, Crystal Parrot (not to be confused with the other crystal parrot), Jasper Spider, Silver Raven, and Red Boar. I've also heard of Black Spider (in Baldur's Gate 2); as well as Blue Centaur, Coral Dolphin, Iron Serpent (Viper or Python), Quartz Eagle, Sardonyx Stone Flyer, and Turquoise Turtle from other sources I can't confirm (they might be homebrews); plus Amber Scorpion, Glass Peacock, Jade Falcon, Red Herring (seriously), and White Wolf (which are my group's homebrews). No panthers of any sort, and no figurines which really match Guenhwyvar's described properties and abilities. So sayeth my notes (which are somewhat less scribbly than my memory).
[Edit: Oh, look, a wiki page.] |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 03:34:35
Whoops! Splitter- right. I mentioned it because Arik had posted about another sword named Cuter, and Khazid'hea was mentioned as the means of breaking the figurine. Just thought it was worth mentioning. I'm wondering about the unicorn myself, actually- but for another reason entirely. We already know that unicorns will only let "pure" maidens ride them, so why is Drizzt riding one?! He's not only a guy, but he's hardly "pure"!! |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 02:21:54
The mindset of modern society is preoccupied with assigning nomenclature. Sometimes a precise name for a thing just cannot be given because it has a nature which exceeds the scope of our language or names. An inaccurate lumping is really about the best we can do, and it works well enough for most purposes. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 01:37:43
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
(A Reader's Guide to RAS's The Legend of Drizzt, though, does call the figurine a "figurine of wondrous power", so go figure--ARG!)
I've noticed a tendency, on the part of WotC, to stick things into the closest convenient shape, even if it doesn't properly fit, and this is a good example. Other examples would be how 3E lumped lythari in with lycanthropes, or how the wards of Silverymoon became a mythal. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 24 Mar 2011 : 22:58:17
Does anyone have a 1E DMG for reference here? I hypothesize that maybe RAS's depiction of Guen's figurine of wondrous power might've matched an earlier, less-refined description, and only diverged as the rules changed.
At any rate, I think that part of the reason why Guen's figurine works differently is because it was probably created differently. Since standard figurines become the animal that they represent, I am guessing that the figurines would logically predate the animals. It's a Realmsian chicken-or-the-egg, except we know that if the figurine becomes the animal, the figurine must've been crafted before the animal came into existence.
But Guenhwyvar's history, as described in the short story "Guenhwyvar", makes it clear that the giant panther existed on the Material Plane before the human mage Anders Beltgarden fabricated the figurine. She was a natural animal, first. Anders created the figurine to serve as a sort of link for Guen to the Astral Plane, like a key--or a garage door opener! 
It should also be noted that RAS's stories have never actually called the panther statuette a "figurine of wondrous power", but rather, simply a "figurine" or "statuette". Therefore, it may be unwise to try to force the panther figurine into a "figurine of wondrous power" ruleset. (A Reader's Guide to RAS's The Legend of Drizzt, though, does call the figurine a "figurine of wondrous power", so go figure--ARG!)
Now, this makes me wonder about Drizzt's newest toy, the unicorn Andahar, linked to a unicorn neck pendant. Drizzt blows into the horn of the pendant to summon and dismiss the unicorn, which appears to arrive from and exit to some point in the distance, rather than from the pendant itself. The pendant does not become the unicorn.
Did Andahar exist as a natural unicorn on the Material Plane before being linked to the pendant, ala Guenhwyvar? Was this unicorn pendant the same one that Drizzt received from Regis (in The Crystal Shard), and only magically enchanted by the Council of Silverymoon much later (just before the beginning of Gauntlgrym)?
I don't know the rules on unicorns, but is that sort of thing allowed with such creatures, or are they considered special and sacred? |
| BEAST |
Posted - 24 Mar 2011 : 22:39:36
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Cutter is the translation of Khazid'hea. And yes, there was another sword named Cutter- it was Ryld's sword in WotSQ, I think.
That would be Splitter.
What does that have to do with this scroll, though?  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 03:39:23
The D&D: Wrath of the Dragon God movie briefly showed a figurine of wondrous power. It was a white dove which was unfortunately zorched by a lightning trap within seconds of being released; it immediately reverted to a porcelain statue, fell to the ground, and shattered on impact. The elf was sad, the rogue joked about it, everyone else politely stifled a chuckle. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 03:26:08
Cutter is the translation of Khazid'hea. And yes, there was another sword named Cutter- it was Ryld's sword in WotSQ, I think. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 04:15:29
Another sword named "cutter".  |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 17 Mar 2011 : 04:10:31
Interesting. I had a vague idea for a story in which Drizzt himself was placed in stasis by a Harpel, and shrunk into a doll (figurine) to bring about a prophecy in which he was to aid an elven maiden to stop a growing "dark void" that threatened to devour the entire Underdark, followed by all of Faerun. Don't ask me where this came from, as I thought of this after a very long day at work and a night of no sleep. |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 19:03:45
I played in a game where Elminster (deceased in this campaign world), happened to have a figurine of Vangerdahast (also deceased) sitting on his mantle. Took Sylune's help to activate it, but once she got it going, we got ourselves a mage royal back. Then I just had to sneak him, Scotti, and some peasants out of Shadowdale before the Zhents finally took the dale. |
| jaelin910 |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 10:51:35
SPOILERS
the figurine for guen even gets broken at one point.
it is then repaired
neither of these was easy, to break it required the use of "cutter" or Khazid'hea.
tto repair it required a specially made gluelike substance to hold it together while the magic of the figurine rejoined the two parts
END SPOILERS
if you want more information read the books! |
| Saxmilian |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 09:12:57
Sorry for the multiple technically 's apparently my computer hates me, I wasn't be snarthy |
| Saxmilian |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 09:08:43
Technically it should be at the bottom of an acid lake. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 08:29:30
The novels do not always correlate with the game rules. It might have made better story. It might be the way RAS plays figurines in his D&D. Since the figs are already nonstandard, they might even have different magical properties. |
| Saxmilian |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 08:25:48
Technically it should be at the bottom of an acid lake. |
| Saxmilian |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 08:24:34
Technically it should be at the bottom of an acid lake. |
| Saxmilian |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 08:23:08
Well that was my confusion, guen falls into a lake of acid and the figurines in drizzts pocket... |
| BEAST |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 08:10:33
With RAS's figurines of wondrous power connected to the panther Guenhwyvar and the unicorn Andahar, the figurines remain in Drizzt's possession even when the animals are on the Prime Material Plane. He pulls forth the figurines in order to dismiss the animals. |
| Mr_Miscellany |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 07:39:00
Hello Saxmillan,
The figurine becomes the creature, unless the specific description for a given figurine says otherwise.
If the creature dies 100' away then you need to retrieve the figurine where it fell to the ground.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 07:35:58
quote:
1E DMG
"If any figurine is destroyed in its statuette form it is forever ruined, all magic is lost, and it has no power. If slain in animal-like farm the figurine simply reverts to its Statuette conformation and can be used again at a later time as long as the statuette is not broken."
2E DMG
"If a figurine of wondrous power is broken or destroyed in its statuette form, it is forever ruined, all magic is lost, and it has no power. If slain in animal form, the figurine simply reverts to a statuette and can be used again at a later time."
3E/3.5E DMG
"If a figurine of wondrous power is broken or destroyed in its statuette form, it is forever ruined. All magic is lost, it's power departed. If slain in animal form, the figurine simple reverts to a statuette that can be used again at a later time."
The figurine itself is (or contains) the creature; one becomes the other, only one form is present at any given moment. If the creature is slain, the figurine will appear (on the ground) wherever the creature was, even if 100' distant ... an attacker might easily destroy (or take) the statuette when this happens.
"At a later time" seems to be treated as 24 hours at every gaming table I've ever seen, though I honestly don't know where this time period originates since it is not written anywhere in the rules. Many of these figurines are made from glass, ceramic, or porcelain and are very fragile; some are made from bone, ivory, tooth, or wood; a rare few are made from stone, gemstone, or metal (judging from the descriptions of magical figurines I've read in countless D&D sourcebooks, adventures, and novels). |
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