| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 11:31:24
hi there,
in many recent playing evenings, it has shown that the oh-so-tough 3,5 and 3e adventures aren't hard at all if you have a party, which uses its ressources.
we once had a session, were we had seven players, and they managed to whoop up a mature adult fang dragon, with their characters being at the following levels:
2 fighter lvl 7
1 fighter level 8
1 cleric level 8
1 cleric level 7
1 mage level 7
and one rogue level 7
they killed the beast -which is a cr 12 creature with no losses...
they did no tuse mighty one-time scrolls or stuff like this, and also their magic equipment was not above average, so no vorpal stuff or metamagic wand of max spell etc.
so, have you made similar experiences? |
| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 12 Mar 2011 : 09:40:17
@ rhewtani, good point looking from this perspective.
I have had similar experiences with my hobgoblin avdenturing team, which has 13 individuals if all of them are together - and most of them either ride direwolves or worgs, on an average level 7, too.
quite devastating what they can accomplish, just by sheer numbers and in most cases also the pure tactical supremacy, with flanking, grappling, the trip attacks of the wolves are also extremely nasty to almost all sorty of enemies.
i had doubts for them to survive in first, but with their numbers and combined power, a TPK is soo much inlikely, unless they stunble upon a great wyrm or really nasty demon or a small army.....
but even on a party of four to five players, the teamwork can easily compensate 3-4 levels of chars.
i was basically looking for your similar experiences either as player or dm, when parties survived encounters which normally would have had at least 1 dead just by working together etc. |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 23:15:34
This doesn't look too atypical. Your APL is 7.3; but you have 7 characters in the encounter. If you went for a "party level" off of that, you'd have something like mAPL of 12.75. So, them mopping up on a CR 12, is not unlikely. It doesn't sound like the creature has any real limiters on it (weird DR or very high SR, etc). I think if you gave them their strategies, but not their sheer numbers, they would have still defeated the creature, but lost more resources.
Edit: And by resources, I mean the rogue. :) |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 16:50:48
@wenin, I tried my best to play the wits of the beast, crush etc. dispel magic....
but in the end the MASSIVE damage by the fighters was just too much, they dashed out that much damage, that it all was over in three rounds..... |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 16:48:20
what made it worse, they used cleric spells really wise, i mean really.
the worst thing for the dragon was, that they succeded in keeping him on the ground with earthbind after reducing his fortitude-spell.
two small characters, and bothused ( from the clerics ) fell the greatest foe - which gave the rogue ( one of them ) and one fighter an additional 3d6 dam with each attack.
the two bigger fighters used potions of ice-axe and were hasted, so they had three melee touch-attacks dealing 2d12+4 each - and they both overcame the SR of the dragon
recitation and other buffs did the rest.
it is really surprising what an experienced party can do if they work together and stick to plans they made before major encounters.
I agree, the party was big, but nevertheless I think it is quite an achievement.
@diffan, they used the enfeeblement and snake-swiftness, others not. with the ice-axe potions and up to 4 attacks ( with snke swiftness and haste ) the tanks were devastating, for they scored almost automatic hits with the ice axe spell. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 14:47:46
Even with your party almost half of what the creature's CR is (Party level is 6th, Fang Dragon is CR 12th) it's not impossible when you have 7 rounds of the party attacking and 1 round of the Dragon attacking. Even if you played the Dragon smart (Fly-by Attack, Breath Weapon whenever possible, and picking out one or two "strong targets" like the cleric or wizard for full-attack) I'm not suprised that it died that quickly or that you had no deaths in your party.
2 clerics mean strong healing, strong buff spells, and secondary tanks. 2 fighters mean straight up damage dealing (even if it's average DPR) and are hard to hit targets. A 7th level rogue, built with DPR in mind, can dish out somthing like +5d6 damage per attack with two-weapons and flanking which with as many party members you had wouldn't be hard at all. And you had a wizard, equipped correctly with the right spells (Evard's Black Tenticles, Grease, Glitterdust, Ray of Enfeeblement, Snake's Swiftness) makes this encounter something akin to a ECL 5.
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| Alisttair |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 12:12:26
Sounds similar to something I experienced years ago. Fang Dragon and lots of PCsto kill it (however they used a Rod of Wonder and petrified it on the first shot, so not so much the same thing) |
| Wenin |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 12:06:12
There's more to the equation than what you put forth.
Terrain
They also had 3 more characters than the CR is built for.
How tough did you run the "beast"? Was it merely a bag of hitpoints with a special attack or two? =)
House rules? Any hero point system in use?
I just finished up a campaign season where they party was 5 members of about 7th level, with two ineffective NPC ogre barbarians. I had them fighting a Fiendish Bullette that was a CR10. If I had the bullette just focus on a single character, it would have likely been a TPK. Instead it was a hairy combat to the very end, when it ended with a critical hit... though it only had 5 hps left at the time. =) |
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