| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 24 Oct 2003 : 17:47:02
We all want to do this -- even me, who has never actually been in a game (save for a prologue of a section of a PbeM that's on hiatus). In my case it's due to disgust at how people don't use imagination sometimes. I pay a lot of attention to the rules and like to have powerful characters, but I always try to make sure that the stats reflect the character. It's never stats for stats' sake. Which is why I can never "crank out" a character -- it all has to make sense as a whole.
As Arion Elenium said elsewhere, "You have to do your best to give as many of the PCs a good time. This means balancing the need for role-play with the need for good hack-and-slash. If not - you're just talking and playing pretend OR just rolling dice. Both are what make D&D fun." Very well put, Arion.
So when I saw this over at Community 3e a while back, I thought it was great. (The link is a PDF; click here if you prefer it in a Word document.)
I've seen suggestions based on extra experience points and things like that. Those are good, but this, I think, is better. Why? Because instead of the players working to gain something, they work to keep something. Keeping something that is "yours" from being taken away always provokes a stronger response.
Now, this isn't a perfect list. In fact, it's sloppy. (Appologies to Henry Raab.) I've written out a different version, which I think is better. Of course, I'm likely to be biased, but I prefer to think otherwise.
I don't know if Alaundo will let me post something that large here; he might, but I'd prefer to have his go-ahead. (For the legal angle, it includes an updated disclaimer; no need to worry about that.  I also want to have some opinions on the original first.
The main issue that I fixed, other than just smartening it up, was that the bonus skill points are a one-shot affair in the original. I don't think that even a real roleplayer would find it much of a bargin. In mine, the amount is reduced (generally by one half) and given every level increase. For many, other penalties have been introduced, sometimes to push munchkins from the 'easier' roleplays. (My version of the Poverty flaw is a prime example.)
If Alaundo gives me the okay, I'll post the new list here. If not, I'll send it to the email address of anyone who wants it. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jander Sunstar |
Posted - 03 Nov 2003 : 10:27:43
Shizophrania would be a great flaw or a second idendity but role playing is very hard for those characters and I would reward them with extra expi.
The idea is two identity can cause two classes at the same level and different abilities with different allignment. For example 4th level mage lawful neutral after a spell battle starts to have blackouts occasionally doesnt remember during those time and wakes up some other places. His other identity may be a chaotic evil fighter killing people. The party can face problems with authoroty and good local people and after consulting a sage they decide to go and find a cure for their friend. Sickness increases the sequenses of blackout after a while and after he gets mad he can transform to berserk evil fighter in the middle of the combat. Will negates the effects
two character have seperate char sheets that every ability,feat,skill differs
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| William of Waterdeep |
Posted - 03 Nov 2003 : 00:48:56
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Actually, that was the very thing I was thinking about -- a character who preferred to use his brains to skirt around physical work or discomfort. Perhaps a limitation would be that the skill point(s) couldn't be used in a Strength-based skill, or only a mental-based one.
Oh okay,maybe based on stats too.(Like INT.) |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 03 Nov 2003 : 00:40:20
Actually, that was the very thing I was thinking about -- a character who preferred to use his brains to skirt around physical work or discomfort. Perhaps a limitation would be that the skill point(s) couldn't be used in a Strength-based skill, or only a mental-based one. |
| William of Waterdeep |
Posted - 03 Nov 2003 : 00:36:42
Bookwyrm said-
Quote:
It's hard to justify a truly "lazy" character getting extra points.
_____________________________________________________________________
Unless he/she was using their head instead of their back.I never do that myself.  |
| Arivia |
Posted - 02 Nov 2003 : 23:48:43
To tell the truth, those were just a few possible qualities that I thought up on the spot.
I added them so I'd be contributing, not just complimenting William. I'm honored to have my submissions included. |
| William of Waterdeep |
Posted - 02 Nov 2003 : 23:16:01
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Romantic and Secretive -- excellent choices, Ariva. I'll have to think a bit more on the others, though. It's hard to justify a truly "lazy" character getting extra points. I might have one, but I'll need to write it out and ponder first. Narcissistic might be a bit too much like a combination of Selfish and Snobbery.
Narcissistic might be a bit too much like a combination of Selfish and Snobbery.
Like the mayor of Bergost in the BG game:"Don't touch me,I'm super important." |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 02 Nov 2003 : 23:12:17
Romantic and Secretive -- excellent choices, Ariva. I'll have to think a bit more on the others, though. It's hard to justify a truly "lazy" character getting extra points. I might have one, but I'll need to write it out and ponder first. Narcissistic might be a bit too much like a combination of Selfish and Snobbery. |
| William of Waterdeep |
Posted - 02 Nov 2003 : 20:25:25
Narcissistic,No lets leave Cyric out of this.
No,good deal,love to hear what you dig up. |
| Arivia |
Posted - 02 Nov 2003 : 19:11:11
Good idea, William.
Some other ideas might include Narcissistic, Lazy, Romantic(focuses on romance over anything else), Secretive. I'll dig up my Mage: The Ascension stuff, and see if there's anything helpful there. |
| William of Waterdeep |
Posted - 02 Nov 2003 : 16:59:36
quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
You're right.
I do see some things that are wrong...well not wrong, more like, unbalanced, with this listing. But until I can actively play-test those 'flaws' that I feel have problems, I really cannot support my opinions without some real role-playing experience using these flaws.
I intend to use a few in my game tonight, so when I next visit Candlekeep, I'll have some things to say about them.
The 'Flaws' I'll run through my campaign are - Addiction, Blood Thirsty, Death Wish (but only because it seems very similar to something I read in a Green Ronin publication on Assassins), and Stubborn.
Why not real life experience of flaws like,"Vengeful" or "Superstitious",I have seen both of these blind a person to the truth.Both of these have foundations from more basic emotions like hate and fear. |
| Mystery_Man |
Posted - 02 Nov 2003 : 15:08:12
Hmmmmm.....
The Book of Distinctions & Drawbacks Revised offers a comprehensive, detailed, and extremely granular system of character flaws and background advantages for fantasy d20. This system is high-utility for players and DMs alike, nonspecific to any setting or campaign style. It's designed to be integrated with as little fuss as possible into new campaigns or even into ongoing ones. The BODD system supports and enhances the traditional features of fantasy d20 play rather than undercutting them!
While the original BODD was largely binary in its approach to character flaws, the BODD Revised offers a full spectrum of options for most of its hindrances. We've consulted our library of fantasy literature to ensure that as many quirks and foibles of popular heroes (and anti-heroes!) as possible have been noted and transcribed for your use.
The The Book of Distinctions & Drawbacks Revised will contain, among other things:
155+ character flaws, including Primary (medical and physical) Flaws, Secondary (emotional and background) Flaws, Racial Flaws, Class-Specific Flaws, Curses, and Progressive Taints;
18 character advantages, including allies and contacts, material wealth, noble ranks, guild membership, civil, clerical and military ranks, courtesy titles, positive reputations, and ownership of estates, fortifications, and ships;
"Seasoning With Age," a limited "lifepath" system for setting characters on the road to adventure by simulating their early years in mundane, risky, or outright dangerous occupations; and
35 Character Package Templates, designed not only to demonstrate the flexibility of the BODD system but to provide an easy jumping-off point for the creation of certain popular and compelling character archetypes.
The Book of Distinctions & Drawbacks Revised will be available on Monday, November 3, 2003, at the following places:
http://www.minasithil.com/cryptosnarkgames
http://www.rpgnow.com
Cheers and best!
This might be interesting no? However the link to the demo is broken.  |
| Mystery_Man |
Posted - 29 Oct 2003 : 12:05:13
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Sounds interesting. Would that list be on a website somewhere, or is it still under copyright?
Still very much so. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 29 Oct 2003 : 05:34:19
Sounds interesting. Would that list be on a website somewhere, or is it still under copyright? |
| Mystery_Man |
Posted - 27 Oct 2003 : 23:03:07
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
The only system I've payed attention to is standard D&D rules. I did take a look at . . . Rolemaster, I think it was. But it was just a glance.
I've never touched Rolemaster but I did have a brief flirtation with Hackmaster, I didn't take to it but one if the things that did impress me was the rather extensive set of tables dealing with flaws. They're actually separated into different categories like physical, mental and personality etc. It can be ported over to any system I would think. This document seems like a quick and dirty rundown of some of the better ones. My favorite flaw "poor depth perseption". Would make a serious negative modifier for your Profession Proctologist check no?
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 27 Oct 2003 : 15:36:04
That's okay. I didn't even know you were going to test it at the game, much less that it was last night. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Oct 2003 : 07:37:00
Sorry I didn't report on the 'Flaws' playability in my game last night Bookwyrm, but the game was cancelled dur to severe weather preventing the players from coming to my house. I have since moved play-testing to Wednesday night instead.
I'll see about posting then.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Oct 2003 : 06:21:45
I am familiar with the Rolemaster system, I do not like it though. It has problems, and some loop holes that some of my players like to exploit...well at least former players.
I'll see if I can find a listing.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 27 Oct 2003 : 06:10:58
The only system I've payed attention to is standard D&D rules. I did take a look at . . . Rolemaster, I think it was. But it was just a glance. |
| Mystery_Man |
Posted - 26 Oct 2003 : 10:32:19
I don't use this system but...
If you havent already, look at the "quirks and flaws" section in the Hackmaster PHB. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 26 Oct 2003 : 07:13:01
Thanks. I want to make sure this thing works; I like making roleplay tied closer to the numbers, and vice versa. Makes everything flow. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Oct 2003 : 06:28:32
You're right.
I do see some things that are wrong...well not wrong, more like, unbalanced, with this listing. But until I can actively play-test those 'flaws' that I feel have problems, I really cannot support my opinions without some real role-playing experience using these flaws.
I intend to use a few in my game tonight, so when I next visit Candlekeep, I'll have some things to say about them.
The 'Flaws' I'll run through my campaign are - Addiction, Blood Thirsty, Death Wish (but only because it seems very similar to something I read in a Green Ronin publication on Assassins), and Stubborn.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 26 Oct 2003 : 05:48:15
I'm surprised you didn't see anything wrong with this; I did my best to keep things balanced, but without a way to actively playtest I didn't know for sure. For instance, the fact that there is no real limitation on how many flaws a character can have suggests that character could have a bleepload of points per level. If the player's a good roleplayer, (s)he'd limit it out of fairness. But if the player's a munchkin, you might have Addiction (mild), Blood Thirsty, Cruel, Greedy, Habit, Stubborn, and Vengful all at once. (Those being the ones that I figure are easiest to roleplay; for a munchkin, Stubborn would be a cinch. ) That means seven extra points, regardless of class or Intelligence bonus.
Now, there're some things that can be done about that, of course. The first just requires the DM to sit back and wait for the munchkin to slip up and jump when (s)he does. Or the DM might say that's too much, and get ready for arguments.
Or you could put in a cap on how many extra points you can have. That might be better. I didn't want to have a cap on the number of flaws, since this is supposed to encourage roleplay -- if there's someone who can take on a whole bunch and do it well, I'd say that player's entitled to every point. The only problem is deciding how many points are too many.
There's another thing. I realized that Child might be overbalanced. After all, what about characters created at higher levels, after that final age-level? What's to keep the player from using that without any roleplaying involved? Should there be a continued issue of relative youth? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Oct 2003 : 05:26:23
Hmm...this is very interesting. I once read something like this for the 2e AD&D game, but that was a long time ago. It had many problems itself, and I ended up expanding upon it so much, that it just made more sense to create my own.
The reason I find it interesting, is that it adds another level of complexity and realism to role-playing. In a very limited way, they remind me of the 'defects' and bad-mutations of the older Gamma World RPG. Of course, this is a little more complex, and based on actual life-functions rather than a species/mutation-defect, but the idea is the same.
I can see using this in my campaigns. I may even update my old 2e listing and post some additions to this list as well.
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| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 26 Oct 2003 : 04:26:01
 Oops.
[::erase, scrible::]
Hopefully Alaundo won't penalize me for such an embarassing mistake . . .  |
| William of Waterdeep |
Posted - 25 Oct 2003 : 22:00:10
quote:
Originally posted by NightElf
Bookwyrm, are you sure it should be
"blind in one ear"
?
He he he......  owwwch,okay I liked the thread & anyone can make a mistake. |
| NightElf |
Posted - 25 Oct 2003 : 13:56:23
Bookwyrm, are you sure it should be
"blind in one ear"
? |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 25 Oct 2003 : 04:26:43
Please let me know what you think. If anyone has any suggestions, let me know, and I'll add it to the list, or change it if it's a mistake. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 25 Oct 2003 : 04:24:37
Character Flaws
No person is perfect, and anyone can have something that can impede the success of his or her adventure. For some, it is a minor thing; for others, it can drive that person to always be alone, cut off from any companion.
Flaws are like feats, but there is no true limit on how many flaws one character can have, save for the obvious. For instance, no character can have both the Coward and the Death Wish flaws. However, for some, the limitation is only on how well the character’s player can roleplay the flaws; a good roleplayer could handle both the Blood Thirsty and the Cautious flaws.
The player must always keep in mind that the flaw is always something conceivably bad for the character and/or the adventure. The flaw grants extra skill points per level based on the severity of the character flaw, but each flaw must be roleplayed for the skill points to be kept. Your DM may temporarily institute a skill check penalty to one or all skills if the flaw is not presented properly. Some (such as Bad Luck and Enemy) are up to the DM to introduce and keep alive.
Flaws can be added or dropped at any time in the game, but skill points earned can only be used at level increases. Also, each will take extra time between gain and loss, depending on the type of roleplay. Character traits, for instance, are very hard to train out of anyone.
When a flaw is dropped, the skill points the character earned are not dropped; the extra skill points that have not been used yet are saved until the next level increase. When a flaw is gained, or regained, no retroactive points are earned. The DM shall have the right to deduct some points or award extra points based on the quality of the roleplay.
After each flaw description will be a suggested skill point modifier. Actual points awarded are up to the true nature of the flaw, as it relates to the character. The points are reflective of additional learning experiences, so the DM may rule that they can only be spent on some skills, or that some skills are naturally precluded.
Addiction
Your character is addicted to a mildly addictive (e.g., tobacco), or dangerous (e.g., alcohol) substance.
For the mild addiction, a penalty of -2 is added to all mental based skill rolls if substance is not available every 24 hours. The character earns 1 extra skill point per level.
For the dangerous addiction, a penalty of -4 is added to all skill and combat rolls if substance is not available every 48 hours. The character earns 2 extra skill points per level.
Allergy
Your character is allergic to something, such as cats or pollen.
Subtract a number equal to the skill point bonus from all skill and combat rolls while suffering an allergic reaction.
Actual bonus skill points depend on both severity and frequency of the allergic reactions.
Bad Luck
When your character rolls a natural one on any attack roll or check, its outcome is always the worst possible effect.
The character earns 4 extra skill points per level.
Blind
Your character is fully or partially blind.
The character earns 2 extra skill points per level if blind in one eye, and takes a -4 penalty on Spot checks.
The character earns 4 extra skill points per level if fully blind.
Blood Thirsty
Your character doesn’t take prisoners, and enjoys confrontation.
The character earns 1 extra skill point per level.
Cautious
Your character is not impulsive. In fact, he or she will not do anything without thinking it out first.
The character earns 2 extra skill points per level.
Child
Your character has had an early start.
For 2 extra points per level, your character starts at age 11-15 years old, with –1 Str and –1 Int.. The bonus and penalties are removed when he or she turns 17.
For 3 extra points per level, your character starts at age 8-10 years old, with –2 Str and –2 Int. The penalties are reduced to -1 each at age 12, and are removed at age 17. The bonus is reduced to 2 at age 12, and is removed at age 17.
NOTE: these ages are for humans. Adjust the thresholds appropriately for other races.
Coward
Your character is not one for close-in fighting or personal risks; in fact, he or she is most likely to run when the odds are against her. The character is also more likely to be frightened by unnatural fear.
The character earns 2 extra skill points per level, and takes a -2 penalty to fear checks.
Cruel
For one reason on another, people don’t seem to like your character. He or she is hateful and mean spirited. It is difficult for your character to be friendly.
The character earns 2 extra skill points per level, and takes a -2 penalty on Diplomacy and Handle Animal checks.
Deaf
Your character is fully or parially deaf.
The character earns 2 extra skill points per level if deaf in one ear, and takes a -4 penalty on Listen checks.
The character earns 4 extra skill points per level if fully deaf.
Death Wish
Your character doesn’t care if he or she lives for another day, and will take extreme chances without personal regard. This may be due to a personal loss that has taken your character’s interest in the world, or just due to recklessness.
The character earns 3 extra skill points per level.
Enemy
Your character is hunted by an enemy in some manner.
As there are many variables, such as the nature of the enemy, how dangerous the threat is, and how often the enemy appears, the actual amount of bonus points varies.
The enemy need not be present, and may send agents to deal with the character. However, this flaw is only applicable if the enemy in question is on a personal vendetta; the character and the enemy must have met personally. (E.g., a man who is hunting the one who killed his family.)
Greedy
Your character is greedy for, or obsessed with, something in particular . This need not be for money; however, something is very important to him or her, and the character must actively pursue its attainment. (This can be for a single item, but it must be of solely personal value, not out of care for or loyalty to another. An example might be a bard who always has to stop and talk to everyone, lest he miss out on an important bit of news or lore.)
The character earns 1 extra skill point per level.
Habit
Your character has an annoying or revolting personal habit.
The character earns 1 extra skill point per level.
Lame
Your character has been injured, or was born with a disability.
A limp reduces movement by one quarter, and the character earns 1 extra skill point per level.
A missing or severely crippled leg reduces movement by one half., and the character earns 2 extra skill points per level.
Mangled
Your character only has one hand or one arm.
For the first, the character earns 2 extra skill points per level. For the second, the character earns 3 extra skill points per level.
Miser
Your character must always buy the cheapest gear possible, and must haggle for all exchanges.
The character earns 1 extra skill point per level.
Oath
Your character has sworn to perform an oath.
The amount of bonus skill points depends on the nature of the oath, and how often it comes into play. This does not stack with Pacifist, which is often an oath as well.
Outlaw
Your character has broken a law, and is wanted by the authorities.
The amount of bonus skill points depends on the nature of the crime, and how often its consequences come into play.
Paranoid
Your character is always suspicious of others.
The character earns 2 extra skill point per level, but takes a -2 penalty on all Charisma-based checks except for Intimidate and Handle Animal.
Poverty
Your character can’t keep money for long.
Roll your starting money, and halve it. Your character does not hold on to money for long. This can be due to squandering it on temporary luxuries (such as ale), or due to tithing or giving alms. The latter is appropriate for Lawful Good characters, and especially paladins.
Squandering characters earn 1 extra skill point per level. Characters who give to the needy earn 2 extra points per level.
Pacifist
Your character has strong compulsions against deliberate harm towards others.
The character earns 1 extra skill point per level if he or she will not kill unless absolutely unavoidable.
The character earns 2 extra skill points per level if he or she will not fight unless absolutely necessary, and will not kill under any circumstances;
The character earns 3 extra skill points per level if he or she will strive not to hurt any living being and is vegetarian.
Snobbery
Your character looks down on all others that are not equal to his or her station.
The character earns 1 extra skill point per level and takes a -1 penalty on all charisma-based checks dealing with those of the character’s own station or lower, as well as with all others who disapprove of such actions.
Stubborn
Your character isn’t likely to back down from an action, and is unlikely to think things through. He or she is also not likely to admit to being wrong, even when presented with evidence to that effect.
The character earns 1 extra skill point per level.
Superstitious
Your character believes in superstitions and tries to live his or her life by signs and omens.
The character earns 1 extra skill point per level.
Vengeful
Your character must always right a wrong committed against him or her.
The character earns 1 extra skill point per level, and takes a -2 penalty on Diplomacy checks.
The Character Flaw list is based on an original work by Henry Raab (litebringr@hotmail.com), and has been expanded by Matthew Bowman (Pawn_of_Prophecy@hotmail.com). Any errors with this list are solely the responsibility of the latter.
The Character Flaw list is designed for use with the Dungeons & Dragons Role-Playing Game rules, 3rd Edition, and is d20 compatible. (Players using D&D v3.5 may need to make some adjustments.)
D&D is (c) Wizards of the Coast. |
| Bookwyrm |
Posted - 25 Oct 2003 : 03:59:07
That's quite all right, Master Alaundo -- I've only just returned myself. And I'm sure you're quite busy indeed, searching for all those old To Do lists to give to our derth of newly promoted scribes. |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 24 Oct 2003 : 20:50:59
Well Met
Indeed Bookwyrm, feel free to pin your scroll up for all to see. Apologies for the delay in responding, I have a lot of new task lists to write up lately  |
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