| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| BlackDragonKarameikos |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 05:43:33
My question concerns the size of a druid's companion.
I have a player who took an eagle for an animal companion, the eagle has enough HD now to take it past the progression in the MM (2-3 HD Medium.) How would I go about resizing it? or does the size of it even change? |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Copper Elven Vampire |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 02:14:10
Why not just say that the influx of experience and power along with shared magical prowess with the druid increased his size one type. I'd buy that. |
| BlackDragonKarameikos |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 14:33:57
quote:
Originally posted by Stormlord
Greetings,
[quote]
This information may originally be located under the Rules of the Game: Animals (Part Four).
Thanks Stormlord, that answers the question I asked. |
| Stormlord |
Posted - 28 Jun 2010 : 07:10:56
Greetings,
quote:
Rules of the Game: Animals (Part Four)
Here's an overview of an animal companion's level-based benefits:
Bonus Hit Dice.
The animal companion gains extra Hit Dice as noted in the table on page 36 of the Player's Handbook. The companion gains the full benefit from increased Hit Dice, including increased base attack, base saves, skill points, and feats. The animal companion, however, does not increase in size (any more than you do when adding Hit Dice for your class levels).
This information may originally be located under the Rules of the Game: Animals (Part Four).
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| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 20:54:03
Awhile back I got annoyed at all the diverse rules concerning Animal Companions. Not just Druids or rangers, but also familiars, paladin's warhorse, 'Awakened', ect...
.. and I tried to create a single set of OGL-compatible rules for all of them. After about a day I decided it was way more trouble then it was worth (how often would I actually use these rules in-game?)
However, this little bit I came up with - these all fall under the over-category of 'Special Animals', and because of their semi-telepathic (empathic?) bond to intelligent beings, they become more intelligent themselves.* Also, the 'magic' involved allows them to grow stronger and faster then normal animals of their kind.
As a quick rule of thumb, I think what BlackDragonKarameikos (Mystara fan?) came up with fits my way of thinking perfectly - but I think a ½ size category larger would make more sense. I realize that we don't have rules for ½ size increments, but for categories of large and above that would be easy to implement - just apply a +1/-1 where appropriate. In the case of medium sized creatures being medium +½, I would just ignore the difference mechanically, and for tiny creatures becoming small +½ I would give them the full benefit of being small (+1 to AC as opposed to +2). Diminutive to tiny should also have no effect mechanically (though I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a diminutive companion).
Unfortunately the D20 system isn't as easy to tinker with as a percentile-based system, so we have to flub some stuff. An Eagle companion or familiar should be bigger (and scarier) then a normal version, but I don't think it would ever get big enough for a halfling or Gnome to ride it.
It's obvious why I gave up on messing with the existing (multiple) systems. I was doing that as just a small part of a improved Shaman class I was working on, but I realized that what I was doing was so broad an all-encompassing (trying to include all variants of the Shaman/Witchdoctor) that it could have been a splat book unto itself. That, in turn, was part of the Kara-Tur project I was working on... so you probably can see why I never got anywhere with it.
Setting the bar too high often leads to unfinished projects. 
*However, in the case of already intelligent creatures becoming companions - and such is possible - the reverse also becomes true - the 'master' would gain some benefit if the companions intellect were higher, which could be the case for outsider familiars, amongst others. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 17:56:41
quote:
Originally posted by BlackDragonKarameikos
And you are correct Kentinal; animals do grow in size.
I'm thinking that this eagle might increase up to a large size and then end its growth. It would be nowhere near the size or power of a giant eagle (as stated in the MM), but I could see it being somewhat larger than normal.
But would I follow the increases for just the druid's animal companion, or would I use the template for advancing a monster by Hit Dice.
A quick look at SRD 3.5 (not an Edition war, just a quick online reference) I see eagle moves from small to medium, never large. A human is born (tiny), however full growth can only be medium no matter how many levels gained.
I would rule that the companion size is based on its age and not bonus hit dice based on level advancement of the PC/NPC in levels. The bonus hit dice are a feature the the class, not virtue of the animal. Thus I would advance the animal based of hit points it earned or just time. Clearly the rules do not appear to spend much time on when an animal changes size categories. |
| BlackDragonKarameikos |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 17:24:58
And you are correct Kentinal; animals do grow in size.
I'm thinking that this eagle might increase up to a large size and then end its growth. It would be nowhere near the size or power of a giant eagle (as stated in the MM), but I could see it being somewhat larger than normal.
But would I follow the increases for just the druid's animal companion, or would I use the template for advancing a monster by Hit Dice. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 15:06:00
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well some animals do get larger based on age. If the eagle has gained enough HD to move from small to medium so be it, it is part of growing up.
A colt (small) does grow into a horse (large) in a few years. Wolves (Dire) also can grow in size IIRC.
As to birds most start out as tiny when hatching from the shell and grow to larger size.
I therefore see no reason that some animal companions can not change size classification consistent with the rules.
I'm not saying that they can't, just that after a certain point, it's no longer logical. Once the eagle reaches its full growth, it doesn't make a lot of sense for it to keep growing.
My stance is that while size may dictate hit dice, hit dice do not dictate size. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 14:23:04
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well some animals do get larger based on age. If the eagle has gained enough HD to move from small to medium so be it, it is part of growing up.
A colt (small) does grow into a horse (large) in a few years. Wolves (Dire) also can grow in size IIRC.
As to birds most start out as tiny when hatching from the shell and grow to larger size.
I therefore see no reason that some animal companions can not change size classification consistent with the rules.
Problem with that line of thinking is that age and leveling aren't always the same rate. If you gain 3 levels in 5 weeks (game time) and the eagle/animal companion gains enough for a size change, it's a little harder to explain than 2 to 5 years of aging.
My opinion would be to have the animal undergo a special rite or ritual involving some praying to nature spirits or Silvanus or Mielikki and through the ritual, he gains strength and size. Seems logical to me :) |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 09:04:31
Well some animals do get larger based on age. If the eagle has gained enough HD to move from small to medium so be it, it is part of growing up.
A colt (small) does grow into a horse (large) in a few years. Wolves (Dire) also can grow in size IIRC.
As to birds most start out as tiny when hatching from the shell and grow to larger size.
I therefore see no reason that some animal companions can not change size classification consistent with the rules. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 07:20:51
Yeah, just look what happened to poor Elminster's dog, Clifford.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Jun 2010 : 06:08:04
quote:
Originally posted by BlackDragonKarameikos
My question concerns the size of a druid's companion.
I have a player who took an eagle for an animal companion, the eagle has enough HD now to take it past the progression in the MM (2-3 HD Medium.) How would I go about resizing it? or does the size of it even change?
I think it'd be a bit silly if the eagle suddenly and for no readily apparent reason got bigger. Look at it this way: do PCs get larger as they gain more hit dice?  |
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