| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Icelander |
Posted - 14 Sep 2009 : 16:13:43
The Master's Library under Iron Dragon Mountain in the Earthfast Mountains* is defended by eight mist dragons. Under ordinary circumstances, the combination of secrecy and these formidable guardians ought to serve as adequate security, to say nothing of the High Librarians, who may not be warriors to a man, but surely have a surfeit of priestly powers at their command.
But during the Year of Rogue Dragons, however, those mist dragons would find the Rage chipping away at their sanity. If they remained awake and on the Prime Material Plane, they might find themselves giving in to the Rage and destroying what they were sworn to protect. To prevent that, I surmise that the mist dragons would have retreated to the Ethereal**, there to wait it out as they have always done.
What if, during this time that the guardians are not available, an attack was made on the temple? Sammaster sent a flight of chromatic dragons after the Monastery of the Yellow Rose in order to prevent anyone from piecing together information about the Dracorage Mythal. Is it not likely that the Master's Library might have had similar information or, at least, that Sammaster had to entertain the possibility that they had such volumes of lore?
If he were to send a flight of dragons in the service of the Cult, as well as perhaps some Wearers of Purple and a Sacred One to lead the force and suggest (in reality, order, of course) that they plunder the temple and take all valuables from there for their own, what defences might the church of Deneir mount?
We presume that among the 60 High Librarians, there is someone with the gift of prophecy. Someone will cast the runes, see the writing on the wall, et cetera, et cetera. Deneir is not the right hand god of the Lord of Knowledge for nothing and I do not believe that his temple would have no intimation of danger.
But given a prophetic warning that was deciphered, believed and acted upon in enough time to give them perhaps twelve hours before danger threathened, what forces could they muster to aid them?
The first limitation is one of distance. Given the remote location of Iron Dragon Mountain, no one could reach them without using magical means of travel. But that is easy enough. Two gates in Waterdeep reach the Master's Library and even though there may be some rivalry with Candlekeep over professional matters, one presumes that at this call, they would not hesitate to help. We may therefore assume that help from Waterdeep and Candlekeep (by using gates to Waterdeep and then going from there to the Master's Library) would be available.
Added to that, Wind Walk and Word of Recall spells would likely enable the priests of the Master's Library to reach nearby cities*** and request help from there. Anyone capable of teleporting could be sent word with magic, one presumes, and those not capable could be fetched with a Wind Walking priest that then uses Word of Recall to transport both of them back to the temple.
But there is another limitation. The location of the temple is secret and it would do them little good to weather this assault only to invite others. Only the most trustworthy beings would be contacted and only those who have bled with the faithful are likely to be entrusted with the location of Iron Dragon Mountain and/or the secrets of the gates. Each additional person would have to be scrutinised carefully and the risk of allowing her to know about the temple weighted against the gain of having another defender in the desperate battle to follow.
So, fellow scribes, who do you think would have the trust of the High Librarians? Whom do they contact? Who comes?
I expect that Elminster, Khelben and the Seven Sisters would be trusted almost by default. They probably already know the location of the temple and can be trusted to keep their own counsel. But are such illustrious notables available on such short notice? Might they not have other realms to save during a time when dragons run rampart all over Faerun?
Do we even know what those heroes were up to during the Year of Rogue Dragons?
For my campaign, I will decide that Khelben is occupied with matters of great import in Waterdeep itself, preventing the Dragonshield from behaving in unpredictable ways with terrible consequences for the city. Laeral is by his side. He would not, however, regard the destruction of so much lore lightly. I think he would send aid of some kind. I had thought that perhaps he sends Gamalon Idogyr in his stead, but perhaps Danilo Thann would be an even better choice.
Elminster was taken to Hell in 1372 DR, but I'm not sure how long it was until the Simbul brought him back. In any event, he is either recuperating or already involved in preventing another Realms-shattering event. I'd like him to send a representative with some useful magic, though. Any suggestions?
Of the Seven Sisters, I think few of them would have leisure to go or be easily reachable. But it is inconceivable that they would allow the Cult to plunder a store of so much lore that would in their hands be beyond dangerous and if lost be beyond tragic. I think Dove would come. And perhaps Storm too, if both of them can abandon Shadowdale at the same time. Would any of the Knights of Myth Drannor come with Dove and would they, in 1373 DR be any match for a flight of dragons?
Who else could come? What important allies of the church of Deneir and the cause of knowledge am I forgetting?
I know that the sharn would care, but they are probably stretched to the breaking point in countering the phaerimm and collecting items for the raising of the City of Hope which is planned for next year.
From Candlekeep, some will come, but who there can really stand against more than one dragon? In D&D terms, anyone below 12th level or so probably would be more of a blood sacrifice than a combatant in a titanic struggle like that and the Master's Library already has more priestly magic than they can use. What is needed are warriors and mages, warriors to hold the dragons and mages to blast them.
The Harpers would want to help, if word was gotten to them, but the same applies. The typical low-level bard or ranger would not be powerful enough to render any aid here. Who among the Harpers could get word quickly, have personal magic to reach the remote mountain (or be close enough for a priest to fetch) and be powerful enough to stand against so many dragons and spellcasters? I thought that perhaps Bran Skorlsun might come through a portal in Waterdeep but is there anyone else?
Are the Heralds even allowed to take up arms? This would seem to be an exception to the wars of nation states, but their neutrality is central to their functionality, so I can understand how they'd be careful to preserve it. But is there any Herald who would make a difference in a battle like this?
Khelben could also dispatch some of his Moonstars. But whom? The Regional Agent for the Vast is located in Mulmaster, ironically, but we are not told who it is. Would that be the former Harper and temple guard of Tymora, Chesslyn? Perhaps. Who else among the Moonstars could come?
And who in Tantras is likely to come? In a city of paladins, trustworthiness and willingness to defend the defenceless are easy to find, but Tantras likely has its own threats during the Year of Rogue Dragons. Ylraphon was razed to the ground just a few months ago and in my campaign, Mulmaster jumped to offer 'aid' to the area. With Calaunt apparently allied with it or at least tolerant of their presence, Tantras has a lot on its collective mind. A devastating dragon attack on the city a few weeks past does nothing to ease their worries.
But some paladins might still come. Does anyone know famous heroes from Tantras?
Raven's Bluff is full of adventurers. Who among them can slay dragons, cares about the cause of knowledge and is utterly trustworthy? Well, the characters of my players, of course, but who else? 
Any other heroes from the Vast or Impiltur that I should be aware of and either have be there or have a reason for why not?
*Possibly now in the Earthspurs given the 3e name change of most of that mountain range.
**Given that the Gem Dragons retreat to the Elemental Planes, it would seem logical for the mist dragons to go the the plane with which they have the most affinity. If this possibility it not open to them (as their writeup doesn't list any planewalking powers), I presume that they would try to induce some kind of magical slumber in imitation of the metallic dragons.
***I'm a bit rusty on the movement rules and how flying move interacts with hourly travel rate, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to suggest that with Wind Walk, the priest can reach all the cities of the Vast within the specified time limit. Mulmaster would also be available, but it is difficult to see why they would bother going there, since no help would be forthcoming. Some of Impiltur is also likely within reach. |
| 28 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Icelander |
Posted - 22 Sep 2009 : 18:18:58
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
He's mentioned in the 2nd edition Campaign Setting.
Of course.
I can't think why I'd neglect that source, as lore rich as it is. |
| BadCatMan |
Posted - 22 Sep 2009 : 11:39:58
He's mentioned in the 2nd edition Campaign Setting. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 21 Sep 2009 : 17:55:41
Thank you very much, BadCatMan.
What source is Fankolin Morninglight from? I recall most of the others, but I don't remember him. |
| BadCatMan |
Posted - 21 Sep 2009 : 10:13:05
Since I'm a Vast fan anyway... Known NPCs of the Vast of level 14+. Some are in 2e notation, others 3e. I began at level 14, figuring some references are old enough that they could have gained a level or two by now.
Calaunt:
Duke Iritar “the Dark”, NE hm W15
Duke Pirithin Alagost, CN half-m T14
Duke Halabankh Ormsarr, NG hm W(I) 14
Whipmistress Shaleen “Talonkiss” Oomreen, LE hf P14 of Loviatar
“Moon Mistress” Wyndra Syrylstone CG hf P19 of Selune
Lord Malaph Serpentshield of Dark Hollow (NE hm F14)
Fankolin Morninglight (NG gm I7/T10) of High Haspur
Procampur:
High Priest Pallar “the Obedient” (LG hm P15) of Torm
High Guardian Endra “Watchever” Mathlyn (LG hf P16) of Helm
High Priest Orn Thavil (CG hm P14) of Tymora
Oriphaun McMaren (LN male Chondathan swordsage 14)
Ravens Bluff:
Lord Mayor Charles O’Kane (LN male human Fighter 17)
Sirrus Melandor, LG hm P15 of Tyr
Pradian Karneth (LG male Vaasan crusader 9/healer 7)
(I haven't paid much attention to Ravens Bluff, there'd be much more)
Tantras:
High Priest Barriltar Bhandraddon (LG hm P19) of Torm
High Battlemaster Thiotar Umbarton (CN hm P17) of Tempus
High Morninglord Alansyn Ambrilar (NG hm P14) of Lathander
High Artificer Eldorn Mindalar (N hm P16) of Gond
High Priest Pellar Thalangrim (CG hm P14) of Selune
High Mistress of Song Elassuara Narithan (NG hf P14) of Milil
Tarntassa (NG hf W16)
Zhundult “Stormhand” Ulblesk (CN hm W15)
One benefit of the Vast is that designers never got around to packing it full of high level NPCs. The only ones higher are dragons. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 23:09:37
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
There's plenty of named and unnamed random adventurers of varying degrees of power laying around the Realms and the Vast. Procampur, Tantras and Ravens Bluff all have thriving adventurer communities; it would be easy to put out an open call for heroes across the land to come to the temple's aid. It also depends on what level you're looking, else you're just asking for every NPC with class levels in the land.
I'm looking for the most powerful ones. The 15th+ level ones, in D&D terms.
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Of profession dragon-slayers in the Vast... During the Troubles, Maldrithor, the Sarbreenar Wyrm, was raiding Procampur for people to eat. The city hired a wizard had a fancy spell, swordball, that conjured and flung in all directions the rusty fragments of old weapons, and ripped the dragon to shreds (City Of Ravens Bluff) That wizard is unnamed and unknown, but ought to be handy in a scrap if he's still around. (The Dragons Of Faerun index would suggest he comes from Procampur, you could link him into a local mage there.)
True. Thank you for that.
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
And don't forget Impiltur. I don't know much about the place, but they're bound to be able to field an army against a flight of dragons on their border.
Well, they ought, but they probably don't. Their armies are canonically in the field against hobgoblins and the Cult in the Gray Forest.
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
For fun times, maybe you could drag in Iyrauroth, the Wyrm Of The Peaks. The Cult woke up the great black wyrm, and he's taken to raiding Cult caravans for kicks. It'd be risky, but luring him into the path of the the Cult would make for an excellent distraction...
I plan to have him be working with the Cult to escape the effects of the Rage. He'll be among the flight. |
| BadCatMan |
Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 08:28:36
There's plenty of named and unnamed random adventurers of varying degrees of power laying around the Realms and the Vast. Procampur, Tantras and Ravens Bluff all have thriving adventurer communities; it would be easy to put out an open call for heroes across the land to come to the temple's aid. It also depends on what level you're looking, else you're just asking for every NPC with class levels in the land.
Of profession dragon-slayers in the Vast... During the Troubles, Maldrithor, the Sarbreenar Wyrm, was raiding Procampur for people to eat. The city hired a wizard had a fancy spell, swordball, that conjured and flung in all directions the rusty fragments of old weapons, and ripped the dragon to shreds (City Of Ravens Bluff) That wizard is unnamed and unknown, but ought to be handy in a scrap if he's still around. (The Dragons Of Faerun index would suggest he comes from Procampur, you could link him into a local mage there.)
And don't forget Impiltur. I don't know much about the place, but they're bound to be able to field an army against a flight of dragons on their border.
For fun times, maybe you could drag in Iyrauroth, the Wyrm Of The Peaks. The Cult woke up the great black wyrm, and he's taken to raiding Cult caravans for kicks. It'd be risky, but luring him into the path of the the Cult would make for an excellent distraction... |
| Icelander |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 15:37:20
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
No offense, but you seem to be going out of your way to shoot down every suggestion that's made to you. I've done my best to provide ideas, and explanations of how I would run it in-game (and therefore how I think it would play out) on a variety of angles, and all I seem to get back are variations of "No, that won't work." I think I'm going to follow Jorkens and bow out of this discussion.
I'm not going out of my way to shoot anything down, no. As I note, both avatars and the recall of the mist dragons are possibilities that I have considered and that might well occur during the battle.
I'm just looking for names of canonical Realms heroes that might get involved.
I'm well aware that the monks of the Iron Dragon Mountain will be involved by default and naturally other priests of Deneir and Oghma will rush to their aid.
The possibility of divine aid had not escaped me.
I was rather looking for aid in spotting less obvious sources of assistance. If anyone knew of a personal connection between one of the Seven Sisters and the clergy of Deneir, for example. Or remembered a mighty dragonslaying hero from Tantras, Raven's Bluff or Procampur known for leaping into the fray with no thought for personal rewards. Or knew who among the Master Harpers or their most powerful agents was especially sympathetic to the cause of Deneir. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 13:11:12
No offense, but you seem to be going out of your way to shoot down every suggestion that's made to you. I've done my best to provide ideas, and explanations of how I would run it in-game (and therefore how I think it would play out) on a variety of angles, and all I seem to get back are variations of "No, that won't work." I think I'm going to follow Jorkens and bow out of this discussion. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 02:04:29
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I suppose it depends on whether you decide they're gods of knowledge first, or angry demihumans first. My bet is on the first. Besides, there's almost certainly a lot of priceless information related to demihumans (since the description mentions dragons, and elves and dwarves are a lot easier to get stuff on) so it's in their interest as well.
Gods aren't persons, though. They represent their portfolios, well, they personify them, but they don't have the same sense of human values.
If the long term cause of their portfolios can be better served by letting things take their course, they'll stay aloof.
Dumathoin would not necessarily mind secrets being destroyed, for example.
And if anything needed saving, they could step in and spirit it away before it was destroyed.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Not really, no. If it was the followers of another god, maybe, but Sammaster isn't a god, and his secret divine patron (Tiamat) is doing all she can to avoid notice. This isn't a proxy fight in some city's back alleys, this is a concerted attempt to raze Deneir's premier temple. Gods have sent avatars to Toril for far less; if Deneir can't act directly in this instance, it's impossible to conceive of a situation where he could act.
Well, an avatar might step in, of course. But the clergy would be exhorted to solve the problem on their own, if at all possible.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
If you're looking for it, there is a canon reference of gods taking the field to combat Sammaster: Lathander did so to destroy him for the second time. While other gods would probably celebrate if the temple were destroyed, they couldn't act directly without inviting a whole host of goodly powers to step in. Deneir, and perhaps Oghma, are the only gods who have not just a right, but a duty to protect the temple.
Lathander is a lot more proactive than Oghma and Deneir, though. I mean, they are both known for not acting at all if it can be avoided and Lathander is the one who always has more zeal than wisdom.
But at any rate, divine intervention shouldn't be something the monks count on. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 00:09:59
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
They are, however, pretty much direct divine rivals of Deneir and Oghma. Humanity's central position is not a natural law and both Labelas and Dumathoin could resent it and feel that they could better discharge the responsibility than an upstart human god.
I suppose it depends on whether you decide they're gods of knowledge first, or angry demihumans first. My bet is on the first. Besides, there's almost certainly a lot of priceless information related to demihumans (since the description mentions dragons, and elves and dwarves are a lot easier to get stuff on) so it's in their interest as well.
quote:
They might [take the field]. But the reason to have a mortal clergy and servants is to prevent the gods from having to interfere so directly.
The direct involvement of Deneir or Oghma could be used as pretext for a lot of the gods of destruction to take action of their own.
Not really, no. If it was the followers of another god, maybe, but Sammaster isn't a god, and his secret divine patron (Tiamat) is doing all she can to avoid notice. This isn't a proxy fight in some city's back alleys, this is a concerted attempt to raze Deneir's premier temple. Gods have sent avatars to Toril for far less; if Deneir can't act directly in this instance, it's impossible to conceive of a situation where he could act.
If you're looking for it, there is a canon reference of gods taking the field to combat Sammaster: Lathander did so to destroy him for the second time. While other gods would probably celebrate if the temple were destroyed, they couldn't act directly without inviting a whole host of goodly powers to step in. Deneir, and perhaps Oghma, are the only gods who have not just a right, but a duty to protect the temple. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 22:43:45
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I suggested those demihuman deities because they're both concerned with knowledge and secrets. They would certainly know of the Master's Library, and would most likely act to protect it.
They are, however, pretty much direct divine rivals of Deneir and Oghma. Humanity's central position is not a natural law and both Labelas and Dumathoin could resent it and feel that they could better discharge the responsibility than an upstart human god.
They could see this as a test of the power of the human gods. If they cannot defend the knowledge they presume to guard, perhaps the duty should be left to others in the future. After all, the secrets under the mountains of Dumathoin and the lore of Labelas are not threathened.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Not knowing anything about GURPS, I can't comment there. I think I take issue with how you're portraying the High Librarians, but I don't feel strongly enough to argue the point.
I don't see any reason for why the most learned scholars of the Realms should also be awesome melee combatants. D&D rules enforce such conventions, but no fiction I'm aware of takes the position that it is impossible to be learned without being powerful in battle.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Having read the description in Faiths and Avatars (a note of where this can be found would have been really nice), I'm pretty close to convinced that Deneir himself is likely to take the field to protect the temple. It's irreplaceable, something that the Scribe of Oghma would fight to the death to protect. For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if Oghma didn't also come to defend such a storehouse of knowledge. The Monastery of the Yellow Rose doesn't have as tight a godly presence; it's just yet another monastery of Ilmater, and letting his faithful suffer the attack of the dragons is in keeping with his faith. Letting knowledge be destroyed is very much not part of Deneir or Oghma's faith.
They might. But the reason to have a mortal clergy and servants is to prevent the gods from having to interfere so directly.
The direct involvement of Deneir or Oghma could be used as pretext for a lot of the gods of destruction to take action of their own.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Second, they would also call the dragons back. Assuming they've been asleep and/or off the plane, they could come back for a few days without any real danger. Think for instance of the accumulated metallic dragon army. They wake up, fly across a third of Faerun, go into battle, and then spend several months running around doing research before they start to really worry about going crazy. The mist dragons will absolutely be called back to defend against such a threat.
They might call them back, yes.
But that would be a last resort, since the priests suspect that the Cult is somehow behind the Rage. The thought that they could control it somehow is terrifying*.
*Also correct, as it turns out. Any mist dragon that joins the fight will be at a huge risk of being released to the Rage by a spell of the Wearers of Purple. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 22:27:46
I suggested those demihuman deities because they're both concerned with knowledge and secrets. They would certainly know of the Master's Library, and would most likely act to protect it.
Not knowing anything about GURPS, I can't comment there. I think I take issue with how you're portraying the High Librarians, but I don't feel strongly enough to argue the point.
Having read the description in Faiths and Avatars (a note of where this can be found would have been really nice), I'm pretty close to convinced that Deneir himself is likely to take the field to protect the temple. It's irreplaceable, something that the Scribe of Oghma would fight to the death to protect. For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if Oghma didn't also come to defend such a storehouse of knowledge. The Monastery of the Yellow Rose doesn't have as tight a godly presence; it's just yet another monastery of Ilmater, and letting his faithful suffer the attack of the dragons is in keeping with his faith. Letting knowledge be destroyed is very much not part of Deneir or Oghma's faith.
Second, they would also call the dragons back. Assuming they've been asleep and/or off the plane, they could come back for a few days without any real danger. Think for instance of the accumulated metallic dragon army. They wake up, fly across a third of Faerun, go into battle, and then spend several months running around doing research before they start to really worry about going crazy. The mist dragons will absolutely be called back to defend against such a threat. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 19:57:38
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Loene is a fighter at least she can be found in Volo's guide to Waterdeep.
Thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Most of the higher level named adventurers in Realms canon are retired, but that could easily change if the cause was important enough.
Indeed.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
As for greed, I am thinking greed for knowledge and the fear of what secrets might be lost that they might later find use for themselves.
Yes, but the greed for knowledge is what is dangerous for them and they are sworn to keep their secrets safe from such as those.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I think the monks would be forced to take what they can get if the situation becomes dire enough, but if it is a must that they are trusted or known you can make up back-history that can justify using more or less anyone found in the Realms.
I could, I suppose.
I'm looking for canon connections, though.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
But beyond this I don't think I can be of much more help here. Sorry.
You've been quite helpful and I hope you'll continue to participate. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 19:01:33
Loene is a fighter at least she can be found in Volo's guide to Waterdeep. Most of the higher level named adventurers in Realms canon are retired, but that could easily change if the cause was important enough.
As for greed, I am thinking greed for knowledge and the fear of what secrets might be lost that they might later find use for themselves.
I think the monks would be forced to take what they can get if the situation becomes dire enough, but if it is a must that they are trusted or known you can make up back-history that can justify using more or less anyone found in the Realms.
But beyond this I don't think I can be of much more help here. Sorry. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 18:31:30
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well Gondegal is CN and might see the defence of the cloister as a way of redeeming his own reputation as well as his ego. His knowledge of Ravenloft (if you use that idea) might have made the monks interested in him.
His reputation would not enjoy any benefit as he would be sworn to silence. Any heroics would be as secret as the location of the temple.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
As for selfless, is that completely necessary? Greed and the rumours of secrets hidden in the cloister might do as well.
No.
Anyone who would defend the temple out of greed is someone who might turn against it for the same reason.
Even if the clergy were not sworn to never reveal the secrets of the temple to those who might turn the knowledge to evil, they would nonetheless prefer to avoid having potential traitors among the defenders.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Both the Nine and Crazed venturers have some member s left. I think the North box and Waterdeep mentions some of them, but someone with a better sense of memory than me might be a better help here.
The Nine had two surviving members apart from Laeral, but as far as I know, they are retired.
Who belonged to the Company of the Crazed Venturers?
This is a roster that George Krashos put forth:
Tolgar Anuvien (of Goldenfields)
Malchor Harpell
Nain Keenwhistler
Savengriff
Tzarrakyn the Elder
Loene
Moriath
Bralagar Winterhand
Trunnian Regallis
Dumal Erard
Beyond Malchor Harpell, I recognise few here. Savengriff is a wizard, I presume (I've seen the name, but more I don't know). Nain Keenwhistler is also a wizard. Does anyone recognise the others?
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
If the monks though they had a way of hiding the location of way to the cloister or to erase the knowledge afterwards they might get less choosy.
Those who are transported to the temple with Word of Recall will probably not know exactly where it is, no. But if they have teleport spells or abilities, they might later transport themselves to the place they defended and then they'd know.
And those who come through the gates know the secrets of the gates, of course.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
In the end it becomes a question of desperation.
Of course.
But the short period of time and the general reluctance of the monks to reveal the secrets of millenia based only on a prophecy (which they'll believe in enough to take steps, but not enough to throw caution to the wind and tell all and sundry their secrets) will combine to ensure that only great heroes of good reputation will be sought.
They'll reach out for heroes in the nearest cities using Wind Walk and Word of Recall. That might be a few who are not personally known to the clergy, but come highly recommended.
Those coming from further off would be only the most trusted allies. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 18:16:00
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Unfortunately, Deneir's clergy isn't all that well-defined, nor are their allies. In this case, though, I'd say pretty much any high-level priest of Deneir or Oghma could be drafted, either by the monks, or by the gods directly. Similarly with elven clerics of Labelas and dwarven clerics of Dumathoin. All of them would be powerful enough to reach the retreat on their own, and could be compelled by their respective dieties to keep the secret. Many of them would also likely be part of adventuring groups, which may or may not get called in, depending.
True enough.
I'm not sure about the demihuman priests, though. Gods are not omniscient and it is not necessary that they should know of this. I have postulated some elves that heard of this and came, but I'm not sure that the gods themselves would tell their followers this.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Second, if the Rangers Three are still alive and adventuring (which is an open question considering the risks they run and that they'd all be in their 40's at least) and available, than Sylune is probably also available. If El is staying in Shadowdale, that frees her up to be more pro-active in this Rage than she was in the Flight.
The Rangers Three, I have decided, live still and adventure still.
Elminster, though, is not necessarily in his tower. So Sylune inherits Shadowdale.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Third, I think part of this discussion revolves around the question of "what is a monk?" The D&D game has always been a bit schizophrenic about this, since they're determined to draw from both western and eastern history. So we have monks that are of the eastern "warrior mystic" (ie: Shaolin) variety, and monks that are in the western "withdrawn religious man" vein. That second one can be further subdivided into those with clerical power (ie: "cloistered clerics" in 3e terminology) and those without. To make matters worse, those without can be further divided into those without any class levels at all, and those with levels in other classes who have "retired from the world" (a la Brother Cadfael, who is perfectly capable of beating up anyone in his town, except his vows prohibit it).
I think it would be of help if you define exactly what kind of "monk" you are going for, since all of the above definitions are valid, and all exist within Realms canon. There will likely be a variety, but one kind will probably dominate.
Since I use GURPS rules for my Realms, the monks will know those things that make sense for their vocation and not others. I have no need to make them all conform to a 'class template' and can have two men be called 'monks' because of their vocation and social position without them sharing any powers.
Most of them will be wise, learned and capable of communicating with their God to receive advice and assistance in unraveling mysteries. They will not be warriors of any kind.
Some will have powerful priestly magic by virtue of their connection to Deneir. Particularly those who were active in the church or Zealots of the Written Word before their retreat to the Master's Library.
A few might be former soldiers or heroes, such as Brother Cadfael. I've already placed one former mercenary warlord in the ranks of the High Librarians, though his mercendary/bandit days were some two generations ago.
It is also possible that a monk might pursue enlightenment through discipline of mind and body. That might, in a magical world, result in powers like that of the D&D monk. I note, though, that even a very enlightened monk would have to be brain-damaged to consider trying to beat up a dragon barehanded.
At a rough guess, most of the 60 High Librarians are learned spellcasters that know few useful combat spells and are not used to fighting in battles. They would be better served by staying out of any fight and supporting the warriors with spells cast through foci.
A few are former adventuring or warring priests. Those will join the defence along with the most powerful priests of friendly temples. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 18:15:14
Well Gondegal is CN and might see the defence of the cloister as a way of redeeming his own reputation as well as his ego. His knowledge of Ravenloft (if you use that idea) might have made the monks interested in him.
As for selfless, is that completely necessary? Greed and the rumours of secrets hidden in the cloister might do as well.
Both the Nine and Crazed venturers have some member s left. I think the North box and Waterdeep mentions some of them, but someone with a better sense of memory than me might be a better help here.
If the monks though they had a way of hiding the location of way to the cloister or to erase the knowledge afterwards they might get less choosy.
In the end it becomes a question of desperation. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 18:06:44
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
No I was not talking about the Tome of Ssu-Ma, I was talking about the Herald of Mei Lung. The artifact was never geographically placed, but it fits well with Kara-Tur.
That it does. It fits less well, though, with a library dedicated to Deneir in the Vast.
Not that it matters. Maybe it's there, maybe it's not, but the players will certainly never know. Clergy of Deneir keep their secrets.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
As it looks you might as well just choose freely as more or less anyone would have a plausible reason. Even Red Wizards and Manshoon might have their reasons to want the library to be safe.
True. But it is hard to justify them knowing about the threat at that moment.
The library certainly can't be scried and the Cult of the Dragon wouldn't have gotten as close as it did to their goals during the Year of Rogue Dragons if its upper levels were not protected from casual spying.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
It might be the perfect opportunity to have lost "heroes" such as Mane and Gondegal show up again. Members of the Nine might travel as could plausibly the Halflings inc.
Mane, possibly. Gondegal, not so much. He's a selfish warlord, not a selfless protector of lore.
The Nine? Apart from Laerel, who survived? What are they? And what are they doing today?
I don't really see Halflings Inc. as being the selfless philanthropists who'd drop everything to come to the rescue of a bunch of books. Not to mention that a toe-to-toe fight with dragons and dracoliches doesn't seem to be their thing.
But keep the suggestions coming...
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
The problem here is the trust of the monks and how desperate for help they become.
They will not go so far as to allow a known untrustworthy person to receive guidance to the location of the temple.
I suspect that some of the more subtle and powerful Red Wizards may have divined the location of the Reading Room and perhaps even turned up there, all politeness and smiles. But I don't think Manshoon or any Red Wizard knows the location of the Iron Dragon Mountain itself.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Do you have the Heroes Lorebook handy?
Of course. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 18:04:37
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Third, I think part of this discussion revolves around the question of "what is a monk?" The D&D game has always been a bit schizophrenic about this, since they're determined to draw from both western and eastern history. So we have monks that are of the eastern "warrior mystic" (ie: Shaolin) variety, and monks that are in the western "withdrawn religious man" vein. That second one can be further subdivided into those with clerical power (ie: "cloistered clerics" in 3e terminology) and those without. To make matters worse, those without can be further divided into those without any class levels at all, and those with levels in other classes who have "retired from the world" (a la Brother Cadfael, who is perfectly capable of beating up anyone in his town, except his vows prohibit it).
I just thought this might be a good time to mention that there is a great Ad&d version of the cloistered cleric in an article by Lenard Lakofka in Dragon 68. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 17:50:36
Unfortunately, Deneir's clergy isn't all that well-defined, nor are their allies. In this case, though, I'd say pretty much any high-level priest of Deneir or Oghma could be drafted, either by the monks, or by the gods directly. Similarly with elven clerics of Labelas and dwarven clerics of Dumathoin. All of them would be powerful enough to reach the retreat on their own, and could be compelled by their respective dieties to keep the secret. Many of them would also likely be part of adventuring groups, which may or may not get called in, depending.
Second, if the Rangers Three are still alive and adventuring (which is an open question considering the risks they run and that they'd all be in their 40's at least) and available, than Sylune is probably also available. If El is staying in Shadowdale, that frees her up to be more pro-active in this Rage than she was in the Flight.
Third, I think part of this discussion revolves around the question of "what is a monk?" The D&D game has always been a bit schizophrenic about this, since they're determined to draw from both western and eastern history. So we have monks that are of the eastern "warrior mystic" (ie: Shaolin) variety, and monks that are in the western "withdrawn religious man" vein. That second one can be further subdivided into those with clerical power (ie: "cloistered clerics" in 3e terminology) and those without. To make matters worse, those without can be further divided into those without any class levels at all, and those with levels in other classes who have "retired from the world" (a la Brother Cadfael, who is perfectly capable of beating up anyone in his town, except his vows prohibit it).
I think it would be of help if you define exactly what kind of "monk" you are going for, since all of the above definitions are valid, and all exist within Realms canon. There will likely be a variety, but one kind will probably dominate. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 17:50:28
No I was not talking about the Tome of Ssu-Ma, I was talking about the Herald of Mei Lung. The artifact was never geographically placed, but it fits well with Kara-Tur.
As it looks you might as well just choose freely as more or less anyone would have a plausible reason. Even Red Wizards and Manshoon might have their reasons to want the library to be safe. It might be the perfect opportunity to have lost "heroes" such as Mane and Gondegal show up again. Members of the Nine might travel as could plausibly the Halflings inc.
The problem here is the trust of the monks and how desperate for help they become.
Do you have the Heroes Lorebook handy? |
| Icelander |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 17:26:40
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
On a short time basis or a long time one?
Short term.
The prophetic abilities of the High Librarians have deduced that an attack will be made on the temple within the next day and that this attack will involve the followers of the Rejected Chosen, Sammaster First Speaker.
They are reaching out to their trusted allies, as well as perhaps a few heroes whom they don't know personally but come highly recommended by their allies and have personal experience in slaying dragons.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
If you want a short time (and somewhat unreliable) solution then Monkey would be a perfect choice here. I dont think you can say that the demigod (or whatever) is that dedicated to knowledge, but his whimsy could easily lead him to lend his aid.
Of course that would be without the direct wishes of the monks themselves who might be a little weary of the eastern trickster.
Perhaps Mad Monkey will turn up. But in any event, it will not be because the monks have summoned him, since they don't even know how they would contact him.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
And come to think of it, what is the name of the book (in Book of Artifacts 2ed.) that contained more or less all the history (or was it knowledge?) of the world? I am slipping here, time to do some update reading. Anyway, the cloister seems like a perfect placement for this tome.
If you mean the Tome of Ssu-Ma, that's a Mystara artifact, not a Forgotten Realms one.
But you make an apt point about the Master's Library being the resting place of many tomes of knowledge that should at all costs be kept out of the hands of the Cult of the Dragon.
All the more reason for the great heroes of the Realms to heed the call to arms sent out from the Iron Dragon Mountain.
I'm just looking for plausible names of those that Deneir's clergy can trust, find on short notice and who would be willing and able to assist.
What great heroes are definitely or probably busy during late Alturiak of the Year of Rogue Dragons? Which ones are available at short notice?
I have ruled that neither Khelben nor Elminster may possibly take even a moment's break from whatever tasks occupy their time. Similarly, only Dove Falconhand and Storm Silverhand of the Seven Sisters are not already committed to the defence of some locality from dragons and/or another quest of Realms-wide import. The Knight of Myth Drannor and the Rangers Three, however, I have decided are available. So is Danilo Thann. Even these heroes, however, have but little hope against a flight of dragons, dracoliches and Wearers of Purple.
Cadderly is defending the Spirit Soaring from a similar attack and is thus unavailable (along with all allies of the church that would respond to his call sooner than that of the Master's Library).
Whom do I forget? Who among the most powerful heroes that Faerun owns would be interested in defending the greatest library that Faerun has? |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 08:27:30
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Who else, fair scribes, would be a trusted and willing ally of the cause of knowledge in the Realms?
So willing that he would face dracoliches and a flight of drakes with no thought of personal gain? And swear to keep the location of the temple secret evermore? Submit to a spell that guarantees that?
And, more importantly, be so personally powerful, experienced and battle-tested that he actually has something to add to a battle where most of the participants are all but invulnerable to normal attacks and spells cast by minor mages.
*Cherchez la femme, pardieu! cherchez la femme!
On a short time basis or a long time one? If you want a short time (and somewhat unreliable) solution then Monkey would be a perfect choice here. I dont think you can say that the demigod (or whatever) is that dedicated to knowledge, but his whimsy could easily lead him to lend his aid.
Of course that would be without the direct wishes of the monks themselves who might be a little weary of the eastern trickster.
And come to think of it, what is the name of the book (in Book of Artifacts 2ed.) that contained more or less all the history (or was it knowledge?) of the world? I am slipping here, time to do some update reading. Anyway, the cloister seems like a perfect placement for this tome. |
| Icelander |
Posted - 16 Sep 2009 : 03:41:38
The scribes of Candlekeep will be relieved to know that the Master's Library had a temporary reprieve. One player cancelled at the last moment due to mysterious events* in his personal life.
Although sad in that our session will not take place until at an unspecified time in the (hopefully) near future, it means that happily, the servants of the Binder in quiet Candlekeep will have more time to assist a seeker of knowledge.
Deneir is the right hand man of the patron deity of the 'Keep itself. Surely there must be some here determined to protect it adequately and prepared to furnish names of characters in Realmslore that you believe could and would be contacted to aid in the defence.
I have decided that Elminster manages to get a message to the Knights of Myth Drannor and they make their way to Waterdeep by gate and from there they enter the temple of Oghma and through there join the defence. The Rangers Three will follow a similar route, although they were alerted through the Harpers in Twilight Hall.
Danilo Thann comes from Blackstaff Tower and for the Harpers.
Who else, fair scribes, would be a trusted and willing ally of the cause of knowledge in the Realms?
So willing that he would face dracoliches and a flight of drakes with no thought of personal gain? And swear to keep the location of the temple secret evermore? Submit to a spell that guarantees that?
And, more importantly, be so personally powerful, experienced and battle-tested that he actually has something to add to a battle where most of the participants are all but invulnerable to normal attacks and spells cast by minor mages.
*Cherchez la femme, pardieu! cherchez la femme! |
| Icelander |
Posted - 15 Sep 2009 : 16:52:31
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
I'd add: get to the point. :p
If ye find me long-winded, I advise you never to meet with the High Librarians. 
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Iron Dragon Mountain: the name is screaming out for it be guarded by a small army of warrior-monks. :D We know the Deneirrath have several monastic orders, such as the Zealots Of The Written Word, or Carmendine, and others. So they're not without their own defending warriors, as well as clerics, watchghosts (whatever they are), truenamers (Class Chronicles), and so on.
The High Librarians are 60 monks with great learning and wisdom. As I don't use the D&D rules for playing in the Realms, I don't feel constrained to make them fearsome warriors as well.
There will be a few who have useful monk powers, of course, and a cleric or two who have been to war. And those who are perhaps not capable of meeting a dragon in face-to-face battle will provide support in the form of spells channeled through runes on the tunics that they will request that summoned defenders wear.
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
There's also dragon-size portals to many places important to Deneir, such as to Cadderley's Spirit Soaring (George Krashos's unpublished piece on Ouranalathra the Mist-Maiden who helped found the IDM).
There are, yes. But apart from the one in Waterdeep, those will have their own problems. The Spirit Soaring will be under attack at the same time.
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
So they've already got a range of powerful priests to get aid from, within their faith.
Absolutely.
But though they have powerful priests in abundance, they have too few warriors and mages.
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Don't neglect Procampur - the city is home to the centre the orthodox Oghmyte church, with an adjoining temple of Deneir. It'd be likely that the Deneirrath would beg help from the Oghmytes, who could pressure the city's leaders into lending assistance (that has its own problems, however).
Thank you. I had neglected Procampur.
There's not likely to be time to pressure city leaders, though. Only those people who can of their own volition decide to either transport themselves or accept transportation by Word of Recall within the next few hours will come early enough.
Are there any heroes of note in Procampur that you can mention that I should have be there? |
| BadCatMan |
Posted - 15 Sep 2009 : 10:56:14
I'd add: get to the point. :p
Iron Dragon Mountain: the name is screaming out for it be guarded by a small army of warrior-monks. :D We know the Deneirrath have several monastic orders, such as the Zealots Of The Written Word, or Carmendine, and others. So they're not without their own defending warriors, as well as clerics, watchghosts (whatever they are), truenamers (Class Chronicles), and so on.
There's also dragon-size portals to many places important to Deneir, such as to Cadderley's Spirit Soaring (George Krashos's unpublished piece on Ouranalathra the Mist-Maiden who helped found the IDM).
So they've already got a range of powerful priests to get aid from, within their faith.
Don't neglect Procampur - the city is home to the centre the orthodox Oghmyte church, with an adjoining temple of Deneir. It'd be likely that the Deneirrath would beg help from the Oghmytes, who could pressure the city's leaders into lending assistance (that has its own problems, however). |
| Icelander |
Posted - 14 Sep 2009 : 21:32:52
quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
You might want to introduce your thread with a brief description of it's content and purpose --what you are looking for-- before you launch into your text.
I thought I did...
The first half of the post is all introduction of the location, time and situation. |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 14 Sep 2009 : 17:49:33
You might want to introduce your thread with a brief description of it's content and purpose --what you are looking for-- before you launch into your text. |
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