| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 08 Oct 2002 : 12:34:34
Spellfire, is it too powerful?
What does the forum think about the Spellfire option from FRCS and MoF (Magic of Faerun). Are the rules governing this phenomenan balanced with the other classes and prestige classes, or is it out of balance?
I personally allow the option in my campaign, because the type of game I'm running is less dependent on the rules and the balancing of them; Though I will not have every character running around with it. IMO Spellfire for a Player Character has to be something very special and unique in a given adventuring party or campaign.
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| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 29 Oct 2002 : 09:26:15
quote:
Originally posted by Ditalidas
I really like to know the opinions of all you DM's out there. If the answers to my questions can not be found in the rules, then I'd like to hear how you would treat them in the game.
I did a little researching last night in the FRCS, MoF and DMG.
quote:
From the Frogotten Realms Campaign Setting
Spellfire
.... Persons gifted with the spellfire ability can do amazing things, dependent upon their skill, talent; and the amount of magical energy they have within them at the time. In general, spellfire can be used to heal, create blasts of destructive fire, or absorb magical effects it contacts, although the exact effects vary by circumstance and user. Talented wielders can release multiple blasts at once or even fly using the ability.
.... A spellfire wielder can ready an action to absorb spells targeted at her as if she were a rod of absorption. She gets one level of spellfire energy for every spell level absorbed and can store a number of spellfire energy levels equal to her Constitution score.
.... As a standard action, she may expend these spellfire energy levels as a ranged touch attack (maximum range 400 feet), dealing 1d6 points of damage per level expended (Reflex half DC 20). Spellfire damage is half fire damage and half raw magical power, just like the damage of a flame strike spell is half fire and half divine energy. Creatures with immunity, resistance, or protection against fire apply these effects to half the damage.
.... A spellfire wielder can also heal a target by touch, restoring 2 hit points per spellfire energy level expended for this purpose.
.... Unlike most supernatural abilities, spellfire is affected by spells and magic items that affect spell-like abilities, such as a rod of absorption or a rod of negation (if pointed at the manifestation rather then the wielder). It can be thwarted or counterspelled by dispel magic, and theoretically a spellfire wielder could counterspell another’s spellfire. However, spellfire is a supernatural ability and does not provoke an attack of opportunity when used, nor is it subject to spell resistance.
The text above clearly states that the spellfire wielder for all purposes functions as a rod of absorption. And as per the rod of absorption description in the DMG, the magic must be a single-target spell, or a ray effect.
quote:
Originally posted by Ditalidas
So in the hypothetical situation that you have a spellfire wielder in your game would you allow:
1. a spellfire wielder to absorb area effects already in place
2. a spellfire wielder to absorb area effects being cast.
3. a spellfire wielder to absorb the magic of items (as the rules say)
4. a spellfire wielder to only absorb spells directed on his or her person (as the rules say when they refer to the rod of absorption)
4 rules 3 out, but I guess 1, 2 and 3 or 4 could go together.
I would also be very grateful if you would also add why you rule this or that way.
With the above references from the FRCS and the DMG in mind, my answers to your questions would be as follows:
1. no, only incoming spell effects, not effects already in place (Page 18 of MoF),
2. yes, if targeted at the spellfire wielder,
3. only a spellfire channeler (prestige class) can do this (Page 38-40 MoF),
4. see also point 2, and therefore underlines the reference to the rod of absorption.
Note: MoF = Magic of Faerűn |
| Ditalidas |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 12:21:37
I really like to know the opinions of all you DM's out there. If the answers to my questions can not be found in the rules, then I'd like to hear how you would treat them in the game.
So in the hypothetical situation that you have a spellfire wielder in your game would you allow:
1. a spellfire wielder to absorb area effects already in place
2. a spellfire wielder to absorb area effects being cast.
3. a spellfire wielder to absorb the magic of items (as the rules say)
4. a spellfire wielder to only absorb spells directed on his or her person (as the rules say when they refer to the rod of absorption)
4 rules 3 out, but I guess 1, 2 and 3 or 4 could go together.
I would also be very grateful if you would also add why you rule this or that way.
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| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 23 Oct 2002 : 10:50:04
As I mentioned in the opening post of this thread, I do allow Spellfire for PC's in my campaign(s). Though I still keep it rare and will judge the player and character to see if they're 'worthy' (for lack of a better term).
Since my games tend to see a lot of roleplaying, the roleplying disadvantages of Spellfire and Spellfire wielders will be used most certainly. Let's see, Cult of the Dragon, the Zhentarim, the Shades, the Harpers, the Red Wizards... hmmm... opportunities galore. 
Stoyka and Ditalidas' comments have prompted me to re-look into the rules a bit more and refresh my memory. |
| Ditalidas |
Posted - 20 Oct 2002 : 21:30:46
I bow in return, Stoyka.
Thanks for your add-on. And you're right about the rod of absorption part. I remembered it when I read it in your post. So a spellfire wielder indeed cannot absorb area effect spells... But they can absorb spells from objects... how does that combine? Can a rod of absorption absorb spell effects from objects? (I thought not, DMG does not mention it at least)
I would like to add on your fore last post Stoyka, that I would perfectly understand if a DM should rule that a spellfire wielder gets burned from a fireball. It would make a character using spellfire at least a little more cautious. (I'm still not sure about the rules on this though)
We have all on one floor... no stairs.... lucky me 
BTW, do not apologize. I was glad with your reaction as it was. Gave me a good excuse to plunge into the material again.
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| Stoyka Wintercrow |
Posted - 20 Oct 2002 : 19:21:47
Greetings all,
And I bow to Ditalidas. I had to go back and reread the spellfire sections myself and found you are most definitely correct. The FRCS and MoF books do not say that a spellfire wielder can not absorb area effect spells. I was stumped because I was sure we had made that decision in our campaign based on something specific from the books.
Then I spotted it. The FR books say, in part, that a "wielder can ready an action to absorb spells targeted at her as if she were a rod of absorption". That was the signpost I was looking for.
In the DMG, the reference to Absorption says, "The magic absorbed must be a single-target spell or a ray directed either at the character possessing the rod or her gear." I didn't think I was crazy but I was definitely confused and guilty of not checking my own info. My apologies, I will try to be more thorough in the future.
BTW. There are times I almost wish one of the decisions WotC made for 3E had NOT been to try not to duplicate information when a simple reference would do. I had to go up and down the stairs three times to track down the books I needed for this. Whew. Please tell me there are at least some gamers out there that are in good physical shape. My own personal shape is presently pear. |
| Ditalidas |
Posted - 19 Oct 2002 : 15:00:07
I have been reading the rules regarding spellfire again. I did not find a phrase that said that a character with spellfire still gets burned from a fire ball. Also I did not find that area affects cannot be absorbed. But I can imagine that such is not possible when the effect is already in place. But again… the books don't mention it.
MoF (p.17)) does mention that, when the spellfire points absorbed are lager then the constitution score, the remaining spell levels are divided by the original spell levels to determine what fraction of the effect gets through.
With the spellfire channeler it's a little different though. They can hold more spellfire points than their constitution score, but there's risk with that. The more spellfire points the higher the DC on a constitution check becomes. (MoF p.38) Failing the check means the absorbed spellfire will backfire to the spellfire wielder. Besides that there are clearly visible effects that give away a spellfire channeler. When absorbing to much, first the eyes begin to glow, then the skin begins to glow and when absorbing huge amounts of spellfire energy the character begins to glow like a torch… (Try to keep hidden then, aye? ) Beside, with a detect magic, when spellfire energy is absorbed that is, the whole person will radiate a magical aura showing the strength of the absorbed spells.
Another disadvantage is the will save (DC10) characters with spellfire have to prevent absorbing their carried or held magical items. The chance of loosing powerful and expensive magical items is possible.
And of course, to complete the disadvantages, the bad guys are still looking for you. And as Stoyka pointed out even the good might seek you out.
To complete my references, there’s also something on spellfire in FRCS on page 56
If I'm not complete... please don't hesitate, but fill me in. |
| Stoyka Wintercrow |
Posted - 18 Oct 2002 : 22:16:51
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Judging from the amount of reactions, I guess there's not many people that have had either experience with Spellfire (PC ro NPC use), or have thought about the effects.
Greetings
Sorry to not reply more promptly, Mumadar. I've been away from the boards for a little while.
I did play a character for a little while with the spellfire feat. It does have the potential for abuse, especially if the character has a caster buddy who's willing to burn spells for no other reason than to load up the spellfire wielder.
On the other hand, the authors seem to have put the feat together with some controls to keep it from getting too far out of hand. For example, the wielder has to prepare to absorb the magic, I don't think it's just reflexive. Also, area affect spells can't be absorbed. Wielder gets burned by fireball same as their buddies. (I could be wrong on any/all of these points as I don't have my books handy at the moment. Feel free to correct me with the appropriate rule book text.)
But the main control in any game with a spellfire wielder comes down to the DM playing his NPCs to full potential. One of the main points of the Spellfire novels seemed to be the point that spellfire is incredibly rare and sought after. First time the wielder unleashes within sight of witnesses, start the clock. The race is on to see which organization of BBEGs are going to get to them first. For that matter, how about good guys who feel the need to take the wielder into "protective custody" to keep them and the rest of the Realms safe?
There's a lot of potential on both sides of the fence with this one. I might allow this feat into a group who emphasizes the roleplaying side of the game. I wouldn't let it anywhere near a munchkiny group. Spellfire can be a game breaker if presented as the ultimate tweaked out magical gun bunny. |
| kahonen |
Posted - 18 Oct 2002 : 18:44:19
quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Spellfire, is it too powerful?
What does the forum think about the Spellfire option from FRCS and MoF (Magic of Faerun). Are the rules governing this phenomenan balanced with the other classes and prestige classes, or is it out of balance?
I've never allowed a PC the option, (I can't see any circumstances where I would), but have used it for a NPC. If you keep it sensible, it's just as good a prop as anything else that's available. |
| Mumadar Ibn Huzal |
Posted - 16 Oct 2002 : 14:35:33
Judging from the amount of reactions, I guess there's not many people that have had either experience with Spellfire (PC ro NPC use), or have thought about the effects. |
| Ghost |
Posted - 08 Oct 2002 : 17:34:09
I think it's way overpowered.
With just one feat, a character gains unlimited access to the equivalent of a 9th level spell (Absorbtion, Tome & Blood). And to boot, he gains an attack option that is almost unstoppable (spell resistance does not apply, 50% fire damage, 50% raw magic damage).
I would never use it other than for NPC's (storywise), but most likely just not use it. |
| Ditalidas |
Posted - 08 Oct 2002 : 12:52:02
I must say that when I read the book Spellfire from Ed Greenwood the power of this feat shocked me. The lady wielding spellfire had tremendous power. I thought that was something too much of the good part. But in MoF en FRCS the power is limited, still powerful, but not as awsome as in spellfire the book.
If a DM deals with spellfire correctly it can be a nasty thing to play. All the good and the bad people (especially the bad and the evil) of the world seek to control this power, so when a character has spellfire it would be wise to keep that hidden, wich takes away a lot of its usability.
I think spellfire tosses some more mystic in the game and is for a DM a great oppertunity to throw all the bad guys on the party
To return to the subject: is it too powerful? It's a bit depending on the DM. If the character gets free hand and doesn't have to deal with consequeces it could easily run out of hand. But if they continually have to stay in hiding from the big bad evil dude... it would add a lot of fun and excitement to the game. |
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