| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Wrigs13 |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 19:03:06
I am running a campaign based in Cormyr and as yet I have yet to decide on a main protagonist for the story arc. 
The campaign is set in the wake of the battle to reclaim arabel in which azoun died. Goblins are everywhere and arabel is lttle more than a frontier town rebuilding in within the shell of its former glory. So basically as written in the FRCS, well we started a bit earlier but have caught up with ourselves now. 
Now I have always been a fan of using the Zhents in previous editions of the game, but in 3rd ed red wizards seem to have been developed a lot and have significantly more presence in the area.
Apart from these obvious organisations I have pc's from algarond, sembia and the north, pc's devoted to tymora and selune, pc's who are thieves, priest, dragon shamans and even an annis hag (don't ask) 
So what organisations would make good enemies and who have significant dealings in the area? I was thinking about besheba and shar for a change, or continued plotting of the shades. 
Any thoughts?
Cheers  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wrigs13 |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 20:46:37
I was only thinking of Besheba just to spite for Tymora, and one pc is a priest of Tymora.  |
| crazedventurers |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 18:42:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Is Besheba that petty?
Beshaba perhaps not (misfortune, ill luck), but Talos is another manner..... (he is the God of Chaos for me, and more subtle than just raging storms his portfolio suggests )
Just my thoughts
Damian
not that I am suggesting that in my game Talos did cause the decade long civil war and all the other problems the Forest Country is having..... |
| crazedventurers |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 18:38:10
Answer from Brian (Garen Thal) and confirmed by Ed as well re sucession
"To answer the salient question, though: an heir to the throne, thought dead, does not immediately supplant another heir that has been declared heir apparent. Foril was, at the time of his death, the heir presumptive to the Dragon Throne, but his reappearance does not in any way place him first in line for the job."
Cheers
Damian |
| Wrigs13 |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 14:53:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Not to bring the newly appointed King back to the point, but who would gain the most or be most motivated by the idea of chaos in Cormyr?
The Short List (in no particular order):
A) Disgruntled Nobles
B) The Zhentarim
C) Malcontent Nobles
D) Sembian Merchants
E) Power-hungry Nobles
F) The Church of Cyric (just because it is chaos)
G) Sneaky-Tricksey Nobles
H) The Shades
I) Back-stabbing Nobles
J) The Fire Knives
K) Money-hoarding/Blackmarket Nobles
You forgot to mention unhappy nobles. 
And hey, this is post 15,000 for me! 
Congratulations Wooly.
So I take it that Nobles are probably involved.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 14:11:44
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Not to bring the newly appointed King back to the point, but who would gain the most or be most motivated by the idea of chaos in Cormyr?
The Short List (in no particular order):
A) Disgruntled Nobles
B) The Zhentarim
C) Malcontent Nobles
D) Sembian Merchants
E) Power-hungry Nobles
F) The Church of Cyric (just because it is chaos)
G) Sneaky-Tricksey Nobles
H) The Shades
I) Back-stabbing Nobles
J) The Fire Knives
K) Money-hoarding/Blackmarket Nobles
You forgot to mention unhappy nobles.
And hey, this is post 15,000 for me! |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 13:46:03
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Not to bring the newly appointed King back to the point, but who would gain the most or be most motivated by the idea of chaos in Cormyr?
The Short List (in no particular order):
A) Disgruntled Nobles
B) The Zhentarim
C) Malcontent Nobles
D) Sembian Merchants
E) Power-hungry Nobles
F) The Church of Cyric (just because it is chaos)
G) Sneaky-Tricksey Nobles
H) The Shades
I) Back-stabbing Nobles
J) The Fire Knives
K) Money-hoarding/Blackmarket Nobles |
| Wrigs13 |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 12:49:57
Not to bring the newly appointed King back to the point, but who would gain the most or be most motivated by the idea of chaos in Cormyr?
Is Besheba that petty?
Do the Fire Knives want to regain power or just revenge? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 22:48:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, that's a given. I was just saying that I didn't see the king's grandson thru a daughter being the rightful heir when the king's son was around.
Fair point but who is cutest?
Me, of course.
In which case I will sponser you as rightful ruler of Cormyr.
Long live King Wooly Rupert I!
"Oh ****, there's goes the planet!" 
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 22:06:59
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, that's a given. I was just saying that I didn't see the king's grandson thru a daughter being the rightful heir when the king's son was around.
Fair point but who is cutest?
Me, of course.
In which case I will sponser you as rightful ruler of Cormyr.
Long live King Wooly Rupert I!
It's good to be King.  |
| Wrigs13 |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 21:42:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, that's a given. I was just saying that I didn't see the king's grandson thru a daughter being the rightful heir when the king's son was around.
Fair point but who is cutest?
Me, of course.
In which case I will sponser you as rightful ruler of Cormyr.
Long live King Wooly Rupert I! |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 20:35:05
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
So the big question seems to be who is behind this ingenious plot?
Zhents, Thay, Shar or something much more interesting and devious?
Which God, Organisation or Greater Evil might profit from chaos of discovery or a puppet king senario?
The thing is, it doesn't have to be anyone outside one or two noble families. It could be, but doesn't have to be. I'd avoid the Zhents and Thay as being too obvious, and for the love of Lurue, Shar has got her hands in enough evil plots in the official Realms, as it is.
I'd go with one of the other shadowy groups mentioned. The Iron Throne might work, and the Fire Knives are a great choice. I think the Eldreth Veluuthra might be a fun choice, too -- the elves once controlled all the lands now belonging to Cormyr, so a particularly ambitious (or crazy!) member or faction of the Victorious Blade might want to destabilize the kingdom as the first step in getting rid of humans in the area.
It might be pushing it, but you could even make the main bad guy be a descendant of Thauglorimorgorus, the original Purple Dragon who ruled this land before the elves. Maybe the main baddie wants to destabilize things enough to put himself or his own puppet in charge, returning the land to the control of someone descended from the first ruler.
Or all of them, scrambling over each other (and the PCs)? In fact, my current Cormyr-campaign features *both* Iron Throne and Eldreth Veluuthra as major campaign villains (in addition to the "obvious" Cyricists, Zhents and Red Wizards). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 16:56:29
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, that's a given. I was just saying that I didn't see the king's grandson thru a daughter being the rightful heir when the king's son was around.
Fair point but who is cutest?
Me, of course.
|
| Wrigs13 |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 15:17:26
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, that's a given. I was just saying that I didn't see the king's grandson thru a daughter being the rightful heir when the king's son was around.
Fair point but who is cutest? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 12:29:36
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Just looking at the Kings of England shows that being the rightful heir is not the same thing as being the succesful heir.
Cousins, uncles and half brothers five times removed have claimed the throne over better candidates. So it is a matter of support and not right that dictates who ascends the throne.
Oh, that's a given. I was just saying that I didn't see the king's grandson thru a daughter being the rightful heir when the king's son was around. |
| Wrigs13 |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 09:07:39
Just looking at the Kings of England shows that being the rightful heir is not the same thing as being the succesful heir.
Cousins, uncles and half brothers five times removed have claimed the throne over better candidates. So it is a matter of support and not right that dictates who ascends the throne. |
| crazedventurers |
Posted - 02 Mar 2009 : 23:00:05
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I like that idea... But I'd argue that in that particular scenario, Azoun V isn't the rightful king. Foril was the legitimately born son of the previous king, and as such, the throne should have passed to him before going to Azoun V. Azoun V would be next in line, until such time as Foril had his own kids.
[/quote]
I concur entirely and Foril was crowned King however, the busybodies errrr the PC's realised that something was just not right as everyone else in Cormyr was all "rah-rah-rah all hail King Foril" and so begin to stick their noses into the issue, suffice to say that Foril was 'unmasked' and Azoun now rules.
What would be interesting is what the rules of sucession are in Cormyr if the true Foril came back before Azoun V ascends, and after he ascends.
Off to post on Ed's thread.
Cheers
Damian
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Mar 2009 : 17:53:40
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
Just something from my current campaign.
I had Foril (Azoun and Fee's) son come back to claim his throne just before his nephew was crowned. Rather than him being assasinated waaaaay back when (as reported by the Crown), apparently he had been kidnapped by the Fire Knives instead and kept hidden from the Obarskyrs for decades, growing up in Wetgate and the Vilhon Reach until the time was right to return.
Obviously it is a little more complicated than that, with various other groups sticking their oar in (not to mention the decade long civil war ), but he made an interesting addition to the Realm and gave the PC's something to get their teeth into (fortunately for the Forest Country they managed to uncover the plot, and the rightful King, Azoun V now sits upon the Dragon Throne).
Just a thought
Damian
I like that idea... But I'd argue that in that particular scenario, Azoun V isn't the rightful king. Foril was the legitimately born son of the previous king, and as such, the throne should have passed to him before going to Azoun V. Azoun V would be next in line, until such time as Foril had his own kids. |
| crazedventurers |
Posted - 02 Mar 2009 : 17:28:18
Just something from my current campaign.
I had Foril (Azoun and Fee's) son come back to claim his throne just before his nephew was crowned. Rather than him being assasinated waaaaay back when (as reported by the Crown), apparently he had been kidnapped by the Fire Knives instead and kept hidden from the Obarskyrs for decades, growing up in Wetgate and the Vilhon Reach until the time was right to return.
Obviously it is a little more complicated than that, with various other groups sticking their oar in (not to mention the decade long civil war ), but he made an interesting addition to the Realm and gave the PC's something to get their teeth into (fortunately for the Forest Country they managed to uncover the plot, and the rightful King, Azoun V now sits upon the Dragon Throne).
Just a thought
Damian |
| Wrigs13 |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 19:43:00
I'm liking the idea that a pc is being positioned to take either the throne or more likely the fall for the whole plot.
I was trying to work out a way for the bad guys, say the Fire Knives, to actually hire the pc's to look into the possibility of a plot against the throne. this way they will run around causing trouble with nobles and villians alike pointing fingers at all the wrong people. Hopefully they will end exposing a high level and very loyal member of court as the traitor while the true masterminds position themselves to take advantage of the pc's facing off against a powerful good guy.
The problem is how to organise all the different factions, and how to plot the sections of the story arc so that the pc's don't spot an obvious double cross or get confused and end up following red herrings in circles. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 18:46:08
I agree with this entire post (although I only want to address the this small excerpt)-
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It might be pushing it, but you could even make the main bad guy be a descendant of Thauglorimorgorus, the original Purple Dragon who ruled this land before the elves. Maybe the main baddie wants to destabilize things enough to put himself or his own puppet in charge, returning the land to the control of someone descended from the first ruler.
THAT is an intriguing idea... especially if the decendent can trace bloodlines to BOTH the Obarskyrs and Thaug-whatshisname.
If you make it a human with a little Elven blood, you could even say it was decendent of Iliphar, who at some point inter-mingled with both the Dragon's brood and the Obarskyrs, giving him (or her) a three-way claim to the lands of Cormyr. That may be a little much, though.
I like the Eldreth Veluuthra angle as well, but they wouldn't want a half-Elf on the throne, and I doubt the people of Cormyr would want a full-blooded Elf for a king. If you use them at all, I would say their interest (and whatever help they may be providing to the 'main players') is simply to destabilize the Cormyrian Gov't, making it ripe for an Elven takeover (not really possible, but the EV are all a little crazy anyway). If you do it that way, you could say each group you involve (Zhents, Thay, IT, EV, Fireknives, etc..) could all have heir own agenda, and all plan on back-stabbing the others at some pont in the plot (and at any moment, each faction could choose to temporarily side with the PCs, just to remove another 'player' in the game, and then turn on the PCs).
Since this is probably 4e (unless I'm mistaken?), if you DO involve the Shades/Shar, bring in some Zhentish help for the PCs - that would be an unexpected and untrustworthy plothook to throw at them - perhaps it is the Zhents that first get wind of the plot, when they capture and torture some Sharites? At that point, your players won't know who to believe...
I do so love intrigue-based story-arcs. |
| Nerfed2Hell |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 15:45:18
The last "evil organization" I used within Cormyr's borders was a simple (albeit sinister) moneylender (human Expert 11) and his two collection agents (half-orc Barbarian 14 and human Fighter 14). The party seemed a little disheartened when they realized the main evil guy was a pathetic NPC of no real power, and they shut him down and ran him off... and ended up in Hillsfar to plot revenge from afar. Money can buy a lot of revenge, and this guy had swindled himself into a lot of money over the years before they got to him. His revenge started out with putting a hit out on one on PC's family and kidnapping another's only living relative (his daughter) to ransom for an amount of gold he calculated he would no longer be able to collect from people in Cormyr who owed him. Then there was this paladin in the group, so the moneylender hired himself a wizard to summon devils to rain a little hellfire and destruction on the paladin's temple just to show he was serious about debt collection.
The big evil organizations of the Realms are nice to fall back on, but there's so much you can do with even the simplest of organizations. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 14:33:01
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The thing is, it doesn't have to be anyone outside one or two noble families. It could be, but doesn't have to be. I'd avoid the Zhents and Thay as being too obvious, and for the love of Lurue, Shar has got her hands in enough evil plots in the official Realms, as it is.
I'd go with one of the other shadowy groups mentioned. The Iron Throne might work, and the Fire Knives are a great choice. I think the Eldreth Veluuthra might be a fun choice, too -- the elves once controlled all the lands now belonging to Cormyr, so a particularly ambitious (or crazy!) member or faction of the Victorious Blade might want to destabilize the kingdom as the first step in getting rid of humans in the area.
It might be pushing it, but you could even make the main bad guy be a descendant of Thauglorimorgorus, the original Purple Dragon who ruled this land before the elves. Maybe the main baddie wants to destabilize things enough to put himself or his own puppet in charge, returning the land to the control of someone descended from the first ruler.
Yeah I agree that Zhents and Thay are out, currently have a seperate plot which looks like it will lead the pc's to the doors of Thay. And on of the pc's is a devout follower of Selune so Shar is bound to pop up in this scenario.
Do the Fire Knives have the resources needed to pull off this kind off coup under the noses of so many powerful wizards? Surely they will need some backup in this.
Could a political alliance with Sembia help?
Would another nation want to get involved in this power play? Or am I back to looking for a non-obvious God again?
I don't think any nation would get involved, though members of a nation would. Sembia is a good choice, if you want the outside help. A wealthy noble family or a group of wealthy nobles works too, and as I've been saying, I think offers a lot more potential. |
| Wrigs13 |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 09:34:31
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The thing is, it doesn't have to be anyone outside one or two noble families. It could be, but doesn't have to be. I'd avoid the Zhents and Thay as being too obvious, and for the love of Lurue, Shar has got her hands in enough evil plots in the official Realms, as it is.
I'd go with one of the other shadowy groups mentioned. The Iron Throne might work, and the Fire Knives are a great choice. I think the Eldreth Veluuthra might be a fun choice, too -- the elves once controlled all the lands now belonging to Cormyr, so a particularly ambitious (or crazy!) member or faction of the Victorious Blade might want to destabilize the kingdom as the first step in getting rid of humans in the area.
It might be pushing it, but you could even make the main bad guy be a descendant of Thauglorimorgorus, the original Purple Dragon who ruled this land before the elves. Maybe the main baddie wants to destabilize things enough to put himself or his own puppet in charge, returning the land to the control of someone descended from the first ruler.
Yeah I agree that Zhents and Thay are out, currently have a seperate plot which looks like it will lead the pc's to the doors of Thay. And on of the pc's is a devout follower of Selune so Shar is bound to pop up in this scenario.
Do the Fire Knives have the resources needed to pull off this kind off coup under the noses of so many powerful wizards? Surely they will need some backup in this.
Could a political alliance with Sembia help?
Would another nation want to get involved in this power play? Or am I back to looking for a non-obvious God again? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 23:37:51
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
So the big question seems to be who is behind this ingenious plot?
Zhents, Thay, Shar or something much more interesting and devious?
Which God, Organisation or Greater Evil might profit from chaos of discovery or a puppet king senario?
The thing is, it doesn't have to be anyone outside one or two noble families. It could be, but doesn't have to be. I'd avoid the Zhents and Thay as being too obvious, and for the love of Lurue, Shar has got her hands in enough evil plots in the official Realms, as it is.
I'd go with one of the other shadowy groups mentioned. The Iron Throne might work, and the Fire Knives are a great choice. I think the Eldreth Veluuthra might be a fun choice, too -- the elves once controlled all the lands now belonging to Cormyr, so a particularly ambitious (or crazy!) member or faction of the Victorious Blade might want to destabilize the kingdom as the first step in getting rid of humans in the area.
It might be pushing it, but you could even make the main bad guy be a descendant of Thauglorimorgorus, the original Purple Dragon who ruled this land before the elves. Maybe the main baddie wants to destabilize things enough to put himself or his own puppet in charge, returning the land to the control of someone descended from the first ruler. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 22:57:25
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Gondegal attempted to establish a kingdom centered in the city of Arabel in northern Cormyr in 1352 DR. He was overthrown by king Azoun IV after only eight days. He is been mentioned in the 'Cormyr' sourcebook, IIRC.
There was also some new Gondegal tidbits revealed in Grand History as well.
|
| Wrigs13 |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:44:39
So the big question seems to be who is behind this ingenious plot?
Zhents, Thay, Shar or something much more interesting and devious?
Which God, Organisation or Greater Evil might profit from chaos of discovery or a puppet king senario? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:36:34
Ohhhhhh... I like it!
The 'heir' isn't really the one behind the plot at all - in fact, he wouldn't even go along with the plan if he knew. The whole idea is to set-up a series of events where he gets placed on the throne, without him - or anyone else for that matter - realizing it was all a set-up.
Then the 'Clandestine Group' activates the amulet he was given as a child... and WHAM!!! Instant 'puppet king'.
Me like.
All kinds of potential for PCs believing the wrong party(ies) are 'guilty', and the DM can have them chasing shadows for weeks - even suspecting each-other at some point. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:30:32
I thought of another fun twist. Again, going with the bastard and evil nobles idea... If any of the PCs are Cormyrian, then that PC (or PCs) can be friends with a younger son (or daughter, I suppose) of that noble family. Said son or daughter is a good person and is loyal to the crown, but the family is conspiring against the crown! You get some good potential for roleplaying here, particularly with divided loyalties going on -- both of the PC(s) towards the noble friend, and the noble kid who doesn't want his family to succeed, but doesn't want to harm them, either.
Or be really evil with it -- the PC is the noble son, and his family is bad! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:29:55
Interesting story-arc forming here. I like the idea of a bastard (or rather, a decendent of a bastard) making a a claim - perhaps even somewhat legitimate - and getting 'outside powers' to help him get 'his' throne.
He would need GREAT magical backing as well, because the War Wizards are the #1 reason no 'evil organization' or plot last very long in Cormyr.
Thay is too obvious, and the Zhents are over-used in the region. The Iron Throne seems like the best bet, especially given that there isn't a lot of info about who's really behind them (unless I missed something), and they do have a 'score to settle' with Cormyr.
Depending on the time period involved (what year are you playing in?), it could be a resurgence of the Iron Throne, or evan a new group using the old name, and hiring both Zhentish Mercs and disenfranchised Red Wizards!
Whatever you do, you need some POWERFUL magical backing, to cloak the activities from the War Wizards. I'd say Shade and Sembia... but I'm so sick of Shar's hand in everything. |
| Wrigs13 |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:23:17
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I would definately go with an evil Noble Family and/or a bastard of Azoun trying to grasp the crown.
-Maybe have the "Bastard" be the NPC that the PC's are working with. You gotta love PC red herrings.
BRIMSTONE
Why not go all the way and make a PC the bastard? Then the nobles can try to get the PC into the wrong place at the wrong time so they are forced to go head to head with the regent or be executed as a traitor.
Make the PC's victims of their own success |
|
|
