| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Lord Lysander |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 12:27:07
Hello again fellow scribes...
I have come to Candlekeep once more asking for the precious advice of its most respected loremasters... I will start a new campaign (my campaigns tend to last 1-2 years each, after this period my players tend to do some act of great stupidity and they finally rest 2 meters under earth's surface...). Anyway. Until now I supported stats like 18,16,16,14,12,10 with a total sum of modifiers at about 13-14. This time I had my players create their characters with a standard point-buy system, the way DM's Guide suggests. Do you think that my party's stats (now at a sum +6 lets say 12,14,16,10,12,8) will be too low for them to stand against each and every threat? What ability scores do you use at your parties? |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 13:54:56
When we started our curent campaign we was told by our DM that we had 84 points +1d4. Thats is alot we said compared to what we had with our previous group, but he said it would reflect the campaing and adventures nicely, so that is what we did.
As many have been pointing out it is important to have stats that somehow reflect the campaign your running.
The way we use battle in our campaing is like this. We sometimes have a problem with an evil organization and if we cant talk us out of it we go to war. Sometimes there is no battle in our sessions somtimes its all we do. It depends where we are in our quest and how we go about buisness. Our Paladin and two fanatic priests have a tendency to " Less talk, more action" which means we do get in a lot of fights sometimes. But that again does seem to leave a lot of good roleplaying afterwards! |
| GoCeraf |
Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 06:17:40
...boni. |
| GoCeraf |
Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 06:15:04
My players generally have much better than average scores (some characters' lowest scores are 14  ).
One way of looking at it is that many Forgotten Realms "celebrities" have exceptional ability scores, even in fields that they would not find particularly useful.
Consequently, I use the same rules to create major villains that the players use to create their characters. Red shirt type opponents (guards, thugs, muscle) generally use the elite array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8. Commoners generally will have a total ability score modifier of +0.
The downside of point-buy and other such systems that limit your choices to something similar to the elite array is spellcasters. It's one thing for a fighter to have a 15 in his strength score, and something entirely different for a wizard to have a 15 in his intelligence. Fighters can get around the (relatively) low score with simple bonuses like higher ground, flanking, and what have you. Wizards, however, would require magic item-boosting equipment and devoting every 4-level-bonus to intelligence. On a roll-playing level, it's obvious that ever wizard should be doing that anyway, but such a wizard would still lag behind his peers.
The offset is, of course, that with point-buy a wizard is very much guaranteed an intelligence of 18, but at the cost of all his other scores being paltry at best. A fighter can get decent strength, dexterity, and constitution while devoting considerably less to his mental scores (again, roll-playing and roleplaying can work in tandem, if you don't mind playing a relatively single-minded fighter).
So, in all, I'd suggest that if you make them use point-buy, then you should use point-buy for most of your villains. Similarly, try to make sure that there are multiple ways to handle encounters. Those massive bonuses that some monster manual creatures get to their ability scores is even more dangerous. |
| Pandora |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 22:15:52
The higher your starting values the lower the effect of stat-boosting items will be. If you plan on having loads of them and other magic items it might be a good idea to go for a high amount of stat boni to keep the relative changes through each stat item and "plus weapons" lower. If you go for a campaign that is lower than average in its saturation with magic items you dont need the high amount of stat boni ... and vice versa. |
| Artemel |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 19:27:43
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I can tell you that a point buy system of any ammount beats the hell out of rolling because some player's can be envious or even jealous of another player having better ability scores. The point buy system keeps everyone balanced. This is what works best for me and my friends and family at least.
I have to second this. The point buy also helps me when I develop adventures and NPCs. My PCs and Major NPCs get 32 points, other "named" (as in people my PCs actually will remember) NPCs with PC classes get 28, everyone else gets 25. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 14:40:42
I can tell you that a point buy system of any ammount beats the hell out of rolling because some player's can be envious or even jealous of another player having better ability scores. The point buy system keeps everyone balanced. This is what works best for me and my friends and family at least. |
| Neil |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 01:51:31
I always used to go 4d6 drop the lowest (and for one campaign, 5d6 and drop the lowest two), but when I roll characters lately, I've been going 3d6, in order. Sometimes, you end up with a powerhouse, and sometimes you end up having to choose your race carefully so that the ability adjustments give you some bonuses in a useful score. Either way, the scores make for some fun quirks, rather than having fairly homogenous scores that tend to sit between 11 and 15, with the occasional outlier. |
| scererar |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 02:44:15
use what is best for you. I actually prefer having a score or 2 that is low. Makes for some interesting role-playing in some instances. I have had players who have to have several high or above average stats, or they want to re roll. |
| Lord Lysander |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 02:30:08
Well, after 6 years of continuous role-playing and because of my stories' heavy role-playing nature I really do not care about battles. Battles ,imho ,tend to be the best way to take a break from 2-3 hours of continuous role-playing and riddle-solving...
I do really care only about roleplaying and so do most of my players... I am just afraid of losing the whole party in a batlle (I use monsters unmodified, as they are in Monster Manual...)
By the way what do you think is the appropriate mix of story-telling and battles? As I mentioned after 2-3 hours of roleplaying I give them any kind of dungeon to "play" with (from a treetop village to a simple labyrinth and the usual, full of traps and monsters, dungeon).... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 17:52:46
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Typically, as a rule, I give my adventurers slightly above average stats. Usually 12s a couple of 14s and a 18. But it really does depend on you and your players. Low stats can be a lot of fun in a role-playing game depending on how you read them. A bard with low charisma might be as ugly as sin but might sing like an angle. (Entertains the idea of a half-orc bard and the associated story.)
My fave, most-played character was a 2E minotaur. His starting numbers (after adjustment):
Str 19
Dex 11
Con 17
Int 11
Wis 9
Cha 9
He was, of course, a fighter. Because of the fantastic strength, his whole personality was based around the concept of dealing with everything with brute strength. A hallway with spiked floors? Smash the spikes. A locked door? Why bother with the lockpicks, just kick it down. A locked chest? Smash it into the wall. And so on...
And with his high constitution (and sheer bulk), I figured he could pack away a lot of alcohol without feeling it. So he literally drank ale as if it was water, and had a bag of holding that was liberally stocked with much ale. He liked ale so much that when he bought a chariot (he was too big to ride a horse), he named the horses pulling it after his favorite ales.
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| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 16:53:31
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Lysander
Do you think that my party's stats (now at a sum +6 lets say 12,14,16,10,12,8) will be too low for them to stand against each and every threat? What ability scores do you use at your parties?
I think what Damian said is the best advice.
Typically, as a rule, I give my adventurers slightly above average stats. Usually 12s a couple of 14s and a 18. But it really does depend on you and your players. Low stats can be a lot of fun in a role-playing game depending on how you read them. A bard with low charisma might be as ugly as sin but might sing like an angle. (Entertains the idea of a half-orc bard and the associated story.) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 16:29:31
That second set of stats is still quite good. My personal rule of thumb has always been that the stats are good if they total up to 70 and there's at least one 16. It's not overly realistic, since the average is 9, but it's a game about heroes, so it's okay.
I grew up in 2E, so I've always felt that 16 in the primary stat was almost a requirement.  |
| BARDOBARBAROS |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 15:49:36
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Lysander
Hello again fellow scribes...
I have come to Candlekeep once more asking for the precious advice of its most respected loremasters... I will start a new campaign (my campaigns tend to last 1-2 years each, after this period my players tend to do some act of great stupidity and they finally rest 2 meters under earth's surface...). Anyway. Until now I supported stats like 18,16,16,14,12,10 with a total sum of modifiers at about 13-14. This time I had my players create their characters with a standard point-buy system, the way DM's Guide suggests. Do you think that my party's stats (now at a sum +6 lets say 12,14,16,10,12,8) will be too low for them to stand against each and every threat? What ability scores do you use at your parties?
Geia kai xara!!!(8a grapsw sta agglika gia na katalavainoun oloi)
It depends on the difficulty that you set on your campaigns ..do you have the same stats for your villains ??..
Actually the second ways of stats it is more realistic but the first is more heroic and epic...
In my campaigns i use the first way of stats... |
| crazedventurers |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 12:44:37
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Lysander
Do you think that my party's stats (now at a sum +6 lets say 12,14,16,10,12,8) will be too low for them to stand against each and every threat? What ability scores do you use at your parties?
Do the players care overmuch about high stats?
Is the style of play roll-playing or role-playing?
Do they enjoy your games?
Do you feel comfortable with toning down bad guys?
Are the bad guys similarly statted?
Are the players happy with what they have and are relishing the challenge?
In other words, if your players are happy and you are happy then don't worry. As a DM all you need to do is to keep things in balance (most of the time ), so be fair and have some fun!
Just my thoughts
Damian
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