| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| initiate |
Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 00:28:39
Greetings all,
I used to haunt these halls from time to time, but haven't really posted in the last little while. I've been lurking around, though; just haven't felt I had much to add, particularly relating to 4 E, which I've pretty much decided I don't care about. [I was very sorry to hear about Reclamation, though.]
Anyhow, there's a possibility that I'll get to DM a new game in the Realms this summer and let's just say that I'd like to make it ... better than my current long-runner, [which is great fun, don't get me wrong, but more of a player-pleasing laughfest than an actual Realmsromp.] To this end, I have some questions for the wise, and would welcome any imput from fellow scribes, as the game is still in the embryonic stages.
My current plan is to set the campaign in the Dalelands, specifically starting in Essembra in the north of Battledale. We begin in Uktar of 1373, just as the Rage is winding down, but before WotC cannon and I wave good-bye to one another in the fall of 1374. My questions for the moment mostly have to do with bits of lore that I don't have access to or may have missed:
A big black dragon attacked Deepingdale in early 1373. What was its name, did they kill it, and how much damage did it do?
Did we ever get any more info on what's detering the Arkhenfolk from logging in Arch Wood beyond what's given in the FRCS?
How active have the Shadowvar been in the Dales? [in published lore, I mean].
How widely known is Elminster's power, [and Storm's while we're at it], within the Dales themselves? I know that most folk don't know the full extent of their power, but are they known as mighty workers of magic at all?
The Zhents ally themselves with a new clan of Vhaeraunite drow, [not Jhaelre or Auzkovyn], when they come to bust up the elven reunion party in Cormanthor. Which clan is this and do we know anything about them?
In terms of the sights/inns/marvels/points of interest in the Dales which Volo's Guide to the Dalelands details, [love that book, love it so much, makes me all weepy when I remember that they don't print this kinda stuff anymore], are any of those in the Battledale/Deepingdale/Archendale area seriously out of date? Has anything that we know of been moved, blown up, etc?
And finally, an appeal for opinions:
Again, I was saddened to hear about the cancelling of Reclamation. However, I'm sure I can live with what we're left with at the end of Dream Spheres for the most part, as we see the major characters on the road to improving their lots in life, and most of them have been unambiguously spotted walking and talking after the Tethyrian war is over, which means they survive. One of the things that really gets me, though, is that now we'll never know what happened to that slimey, slimey Kymil Nimesin. I don't think I would ever use Arilyn or Danilo in my games, as I couldn't see myself doing them justice and wouldn't want to insert them just for fandom's sake, but this Kymil thing is nagging at me.
So, what do you think of Kymil Nimesin as one of the movers and shakers of the Eldreth Veluuthra?
Sorry for the length of the post, [as usual!], and any help on any of these points would be appreciated, as would general campaign suggestions. I may return with more questions if the campaign takes on more shape in the coming days. |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| initiate |
Posted - 03 May 2008 : 00:27:02
True. As you suggest, I'll see what I can do about getting my hands on Faiths and Avatars. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 22:57:52
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
I return with another minor question: For whatever reason my copy of Faiths and Pantheons doesn't include the paragraph of description on the paladin order of Chauntea known as the Field Guardians.
Maybe your copy of F&P doesn't have that paragraph because no copy of F&P does?
Maybe check the older Faiths and Avatars?
|
| initiate |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 22:15:54
Grrr! Double post. My apologies. I encountered a server gremlin when trying to post.
Thanks KEJR. Somehow missed this reply the other day. It would indeed be interesting to show Maalthiir as being uncertain about whether to strike out in new directions or stay focused on Hillsfar. Given the events in Cormanthor in the autumn of 1374, [which I think I am going to use almost as is], this could even be made directly significant to what's going on in the Dales. Perhaps, if the PCs and their associates, [who are currently giving me all sorts of headache in the design phase], can overtly or covertly swing Maalthiir toward continuing to exert influence in Hillsfar, they can make life difficult enough for the Zhents in the Moonsea that Fzoul can't bring his full strength into play in the Cormanthor War. Certainly some good possibilities here.
I return with another minor question: For whatever reason my copy of Faiths and Pantheons doesn't include the paragraph of description on the paladin order of Chauntea known as the Field Guardians. Anybody know anything about them? |
| initiate |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 22:15:00
Thanks KEJR. Somehow missed this reply the other day. It would indeed be interesting to show Maalthiir as being uncertain about whether to strike out in new directions or stay focused on Hillsfar. Given the events in Cormanthor in the autumn of 1374, [which I think I am going to use almost as is], this could even be made directly significant to what's going on in the Dales. Perhaps, if the PCs and their associates, [who are currently giving me all sorts of headache in the design phase], can overtly or covertly swing Maalthiir toward continuing to exert influence in Hillsfar, they can make life difficult enough for the Zhents in the Moonsea that Fzoul can't bring his full strength into play in the Cormanthor War. Certainly some good possibilities here.
I return with another minor question: For whatever reason my copy of Faiths and Pantheons doesn't include the paragraph of description on the paladin order of Chauntea known as the Field Guardians. Anybody know anything about them? |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 29 Apr 2008 : 04:07:18
These were some of my thoughts on Hillsfar post Last Mythal, from the Mysteries of the Moonsea thread (Spoilers for MoM and Last Mythal):
First off, based on Final Gate we know that Maalthiir has fled the city, the Red Plumes are going to be expelled, and a Council of Lords is in charge of the city until Fzoul appoints the new head of the city.
Castle Maalthiir is to be turned into a temple of Bane, and Fzoul is going to appoint the high preist of this temple as well.
Knowing all of this, this is how I would look at the information for a campaign run in this region taking into account the Final Gate events and Mysteries of the Moonsea.
When Fzoul decides to appoint his leader of the city, Mordak, who is now no longer being taunted by Maalthiir control, comes forward and reasons to Fzoul that he would be the natural head of the city, being the servant of Maalthiir, but having plotted for years against him. Mordak also has a history of trying to get ahold of the Zhentarim, although he has also tried to stir up issues with them to get Hillsfar more active in taking on new holdings. At any rate, Fzoul agrees, and Mordak is put in charge of Hillsfar, as the head of the Lord's Council.
All of the members of the Lord's Council are basically people granted titles by Maalthiir as a sign of favor and as a formal way to tell the Red Plumes and the Rogue's Guild to leave them alone. The Red Plumes that were working with Mordak are allowed to stay in the city, under different names, as the new city Guard. Swipe is also instructed to "loose" any members of the guild that are too loyal to Maalthiir, thus allowing more of the wererats to gain positions in the guild.
There are not enough able bodied soldiers left to form a viable city guard alone, so Zhentil Keep "graciously" lends Hillsfar more troops to supplement their own, for a slight increse in the tribute already being paid to the city. Most of these troops that are stationed here are given fine accomodations in the new Temple of Bane.
Girella has approached Mordak to gain more solid support from her guild, and in exchange, she will play up Mordak as a "loyal, good Hillsfaran" that is doing his best to stave off the influences of the Zhentarim among the members of the Mage's Guild that were actively seeking Maalthiir's removal. Mordak officially "joins" the guild as an associate guildmaster, endorsing the guild as a fine Hillsfaran institution.
Mordak continues to meet with the Knights of the North to gain information on the Zhentarim, though he is torn as to weather or not to simply placate the group and use them for information, or to try and better his position with the Zhentarim by selling out members of the group.
Tola Vrass is concerned with Mordak's endorsement of the Mage's Guild, but Mordak assures her that he values the Thayan Enclave and its trade, all the while feeding enough information to the Zhents to keep them suspicious of the Thayans in the city.
Finally, as Mordak begins to settle into his new position and enjoy the power that has evaded him for so long, Maalthiir contacts him from exile, and gives Mordak a few orders to show that he still has control over his former apprentice, and forces Mordak to send him information on where the exiled surviving Red Plumes left for, so that he might join up with them. He also promises to stay in touch with Mordak.
Finally, Mordak, as a sign of good faith to the cities and lands nearby, Mordak recinds the Great Law of Humanity, and relaxes some of the laws relating to the passes required for those that visit the city. He hopes that this will send a signal to the neighboring lands that he is not as bad as Maalthiir, nor is he completely under the thumb of the Zhentarim (though they have no problem with these changes themselves, and consider them no great concession).
Mordak himself truly does not know which way to turn. He has slightly more freedom than when he was completely at Maalthiir whim, but still fears that his former master will contact him again. He doesn't know if it would be better to slowly throw in completely with the Zhentarim, or if he really should try to be the hero, plot to free Hillsfar from all outside influence with members of the Mage's Guild and the Knights of the North, and take a gamble on truly ruling free of any subterfuge and political backstabbing.
Maalthiir, on the other hand, is in hiding with his friend Wak the Addled, and the surviving Red Plumes that he managed to find, and is surveying the balance of power in the region, and deciding if he should strike out for new lands to control, or if he should focus on creating problems for the Zhentarim and then return triumphant into Hillsfar, reminding all those within that he has freed Hillsfar from outsider influece TWICE for the good of Hillsfar.
On top of all of this, the Zhent troops treat the citizens very badly when they come into contact with them, the Arena is still open, and criminals still meet grisly ends there, most visitors, even with the relaxed rules, have City Guard or Zhentilar escorts, and those agents of the Rogue's Guild that were killed are now running loose on a crime spree.
The fun thing about the above is that its a situation that could be quickly shifted even if canon events in Hillsfar say something other than this. Its a precarious situation that can change quickly to more the city into whatever "canon" form might take shape. |
| initiate |
Posted - 29 Apr 2008 : 03:49:12
Tauster: I'm not learned in 2 E lore, but so far as I know the Auzkovyn drow attack on the Abbey of the Sword is 3 E material. The attack takes place in 1371, if memory serves. I think Volo's Guide is set in 70 or 71, and Ambrose, [the senior priest of the Abbey as well as it's founder], is alive and well in that book.
Thank you, Lady Hooded One, for confirming KEJR's thoughts on El and Storm. I shall try my best to portray them in that way, if they show up. [No idea whether they will or not. I had a conversation with one of my players the other day wherein he suggested that the Realms didn't give PCs sufficient room to be heroes, so I'm thinking that, perhaps, several dozen things requiring the Chosens' immediate attention may suddenly crop up in, oh, Estagund.]
Thanks also Rino and Wooly for your thoughts on Kymil. I agree and am starting to think that I'll probably pass on my original idea. Kymil can go and plot the downfall of the Moonflowers somewhere far from where my campaign'll be working. Perhaps we may see him again, one day long from now...
A middling sized spoiler for Last Mythal lurks ahead:
I had a high-level side story idea the other day: I'm thinking that after Maalthiir gets driven from Hillsfar, [see Rich Baker's Farthest Reach; I'm using Last Mythal as is up until the end of that second book], he's going to hole up in one of the Ghost Holds south of Essembra in Battledale. Volo even mentions that those on the run from points as diverse as Sembia and Hillsfar often use the Ghost Holds as hidy-holes. Anybody able to think of any reason this won't work? |
| tauster |
Posted - 28 Apr 2008 : 16:59:03
quote:
As far as I can remember from the research that I did for my Mistledale and now my Featherdale campaign, the only real changes for most of these places has been alterations in the populations of a few places. A few NPCs got added to a town or two, and some weren't noted in the FRCS that were noted in the Volo's Guide, but there is not explicit comment about said NPCs disappearing or changing drastically, except for the High Priest of the Temple of Tempus in Battledale (which is pretty much described in the FRCS).
I just re-read that paragraph in FRCS p.120... I had misremembered the date, somehow I thought that the attack was in 1372. Are there any more details about the drow attack and the subsequent developements published in other books? Is this a 3e-developement or did we know this already from 2e books?
quote:
Unless of course you count the fact that the town of Glen is portrayed as a human village in the Bladesinger's Lesson in the Realms of the Elves anthology, instead of a dwarven town, although Rich Baker admitted this was a mistake as he assumed Glen was still just a name on a map and didn't consult Volo's Guide to the Dalelands before writing the story.
*groan* that's exactly what 4E...no, I won't start that rant again...  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Apr 2008 : 03:22:37
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Don't have much to add here (the questions have been answered quite thoroughly), but count me as someone who prefers Kymil as a "freelancer" rather than a "mover and shaker" of the EV.
Ditto. Going after humans would be a very low priority as long as there's a moon elf on the throne in Evermeet. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 23:44:48
Don't have much to add here (the questions have been answered quite thoroughly), but count me as someone who prefers Kymil as a "freelancer" rather than a "mover and shaker" of the EV. |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 17:13:49
Hello. I'd just like to say that KnightErrantJR's extrapolations about the public profiles of Elminster and Storm Silverhand are "right on" (ahem; that's "precisely correct" for younger generations), as far as Ed Greenwood runs them, DMing in the "home" Realms campaign.
love to all,
THO |
| initiate |
Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 05:24:35
Thanks very much, KEJR. I have a lot of trouble reading mags, so most of the material out of Dragon and Dungeon unfortunately passed me by. I would have probably never known about that adventure if you hadn't pointed it out.
I think I can definitely make the evil, green dragon-allied moon elves work for me in one way or another. A: I could have the PCs actually go through that adventure, or a refitted version of it, anyway, and be the ones who clear out Arch Wood. However, half green dragons and draegloths makes it sound more like a mid-level proposition, [not that I couldn't change it if I needed to], and I've been having some vague ideas about using the cloud giant sorcerer the Storm King, who has a fortress near the area where my players will be based according to the FRCS, as a big bad for those mid levels if we ever get there. So, I could use option B: Arch Wood has been cleared already, and the Swords of Archendale have reopened logging operations in the area, which upsets those Dales who still hold to the Dales Compact. The PCs must choose who to side with, etc, [and they'll choose the Dales Compact, if they know what's good for 'em.]
Re: Kymil: You make good points. I certainly wasn't going to retcon him into the EV; my vague idea had him joining some time after he gated out of Evermeet. Besides, if Elaine says he wasn't a member, then it is not so. Your interpretation of Kymil as a solitary elven supremacist strikes me as accurate, and another thing which I forgot is how personally focused his vengeance is. I'll definitely have to think long and hard before including him.
This doesn't really change that much, though; I know I'm using the Eldreth Veluuthra. Kymil would be a bonus.
As for the Shades, I'm leaning towards using them as either a behind-the-scenes threat or not bringing them in at all. I'm not sure if I'm using any part of the Scouring of the Land story whatsoever in my rejiggered personal version of the timeline, and I haven't decided how that changes their role yet. [The fact that Scouring, a book that I was originally quite keen on, came out around the time I just outright stopped buying WotC's products and thus I do not own it does some of my decision making for me.]
Thanks for the info on the Zhents, and on Storm and El. All good to know. The reaction against the Chosen is rubbish and it angers me, but because they're complex characters playing them right can be tricky for a novice like myself.
I'll try to check this thread fairly often, but my computer seems to crash when I try to post to CK more than once a day. Dunno why it's doing it. Must be an attempt to moderate how I spend my time. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 04:21:42
Did we ever get any more info on what's detering the Arkhenfolk from logging in Arch Wood beyond what's given in the FRCS?
The answer to this question is in Dungeon Magazine 121 (Spoilers below, if you don't pick up that particular issue:
A clan of moon elves that claim to have been a house from Cormanthyr took up residence in the Arch Wood. The leader of the moon elves, Quamara Keleidsa, is a half-green dragon, though it was implied that she was half dragon due to pacts and magic, not ancestry. She was allied to drow, and its intimated at the end of the adventure that the drow were of House Jaelre, although earlier in the adventure they use Draegloths and spiders as well (though I guess the Jaelre might have some Draegloth renegades on their side).
So basically, evil, green dragon allied moon elves who have also allied themselves with House Jaelre.
How active have the Shadowvar been in the Dales? [in published lore, I mean].
Until their involvement in the Shadowdale adventure that takes place in 1375 DR, it doesn't seem like they were very interested in the dales at all, although Sembia is apparently another matter.
How widely known is Elminster's power, [and Storm's while we're at it], within the Dales themselves? I know that most folk don't know the full extent of their power, but are they known as mighty workers of magic at all?
Going mainly by the Shadow of the Avatar trilogy here, Elminster is fairly well known in Shadowdale, and the folk there know that he is a powerful, retired old wizard, but not that he helped weave the Mythal of Myth Drannor, or any relative measure of power, other than "he could probably vaporize Goodman Kearlist is he walks through his garden again."
I most people in Shadowdale see Storm as a really helpful "good neighbor." She sings at events, helps birth children or tend the sick, but mainly lives alone in her farmhouse. I think that there may be some fairly strong rumors that she's an important figure in the Harpers, but I think that most people would be wary of her power via her importance in that group rather than due to her actual personal magical prowess.
Both of these assumptions are extrapolations on my part, based a lot on the books I mentioned above, but also echoed in a few places other than that. If I'm off on any of this, I'm sure some more learned scribe will correct me on this point. 
The Zhents ally themselves with a new clan of Vhaeraunite drow, [not Jhaelre or Auzkovyn], when they come to bust up the elven reunion party in Cormanthor. Which clan is this and do we know anything about them?
Actually the Masked Brigade drow that the Zhents allied themselves to are actually comprised of House Jaelre and House Auzkovyn, since the two groups see the return of elves to Myth Drannor as a threat large enough to consolidate their efforts.
In terms of the sights/inns/marvels/points of interest in the Dales which Volo's Guide to the Dalelands details, [love that book, love it so much, makes me all weepy when I remember that they don't print this kinda stuff anymore], are any of those in the Battledale/Deepingdale/Archendale area seriously out of date? Has anything that we know of been moved, blown up, etc?
As far as I can remember from the research that I did for my Mistledale and now my Featherdale campaign, the only real changes for most of these places has been alterations in the populations of a few places. A few NPCs got added to a town or two, and some weren't noted in the FRCS that were noted in the Volo's Guide, but there is not explicit comment about said NPCs disappearing or changing drastically, except for the High Priest of the Temple of Tempus in Battledale (which is pretty much described in the FRCS).
Unless of course you count the fact that the town of Glen is portrayed as a human village in the Bladesinger's Lesson in the Realms of the Elves anthology, instead of a dwarven town, although Rich Baker admitted this was a mistake as he assumed Glen was still just a name on a map and didn't consult Volo's Guide to the Dalelands before writing the story.
So, what do you think of Kymil Nimesin as one of the movers and shakers of the Eldreth Veluuthra?
Kymil is kind of a freelance elven supremecist, and I wouldn't "retcon" that he was always a member of the group. Elaine herself said that Kymil wasn't a member (and that she wasn't that familiar with the organization at the time) when he performed most of his most despicable acts.
That having been said, I could see them recruiting him at some point. It depends on the Eldreth Veluuthra cell though. I imagine some of them might be a bit peeved at the assault on Evermeet, though I'm sure Kymil can fast talk his way into saying the attack was aimed squarely at House Moonflower.
That having been said, I think that if Kymil did get involved with the Eldreth Veluuthra, his area of operations would likely be the Sword Coast, Silver Marches, and the North, rather than the Dalelands area.
In my campaign, if my players do reach the "Myth Drannor Reclaimed" time period, I may still have Myth Drannor reclaimed, but have the Eldreth Veluuthra as a major problem for relations between the Dalesfolk and the elves.
In my own Mistledale campaign, the Eldreth Veluuthra used the Vhearaunite drow as an excuse to slaughter a town of halflings (Stumphill, from Jak's history in the Cale books) in Mistledale and pin it on the drow.
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