| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 20 Apr 2008 : 03:58:33
Well met all,
I´d like your advice on how to best handle a situation in which the PCs are attacked by assassins while sleeping in an Inn. There are five PCs and four assassins. All four assassins are thieves, so they have the possibility of moving silently. Realistically, if the assassins manage to move silently, they could quietly slit all of the PCs´ throats.
Of course, I want to give the PCs a realistic chance of waking up and fighting back, but I´m wondering how best to handle the mechanics of die rolling in this situation. What do you suggest for a "do you wake up?" roll. Which dice? what modifiers? All comments and past experience welcome.
Cheers,
Afet |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Portella |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 00:49:01
hi afet "DC" is difficulty chance. |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 17:04:52
quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
Heh, one thing you could do in that case is have the Priests attack the PCs.
The idea works out as;
Zhents steal important item from the priests temple, could be a temple of Tempus, they're not really known for being reasonable. ;)
Zhents then steal the letter form the PCs and plant the item. (same night)
Later that night, after the priests track the item down they attack the PCs with overwhelming force.
Before the PCs get killed the watch shows up and demands to know what's going on.
The watch throws both the PCs and the priests in jail in hopes to sort things out through investigation.
While in the clink the PCs talk to the priests and find out that they've been framed.
It'd take a bit of tinkering for it to really work well but I think it could give the authorities enough doubt that the PCs would have to produce solid proof of the Zhents scheme. :)
Hmmmm, Interesting  |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 16:42:04
Heh, one thing you could do in that case is have the Priests attack the PCs.
The idea works out as;
Zhents steal important item from the priests temple, could be a temple of Tempus, they're not really known for being reasonable. ;)
Zhents then steal the letter form the PCs and plant the item. (same night)
Later that night, after the priests track the item down they attack the PCs with overwhelming force.
Before the PCs get killed the watch shows up and demands to know what's going on.
The watch throws both the PCs and the priests in jail in hopes to sort things out through investigation.
While in the clink the PCs talk to the priests and find out that they've been framed.
It'd take a bit of tinkering for it to really work well but I think it could give the authorities enough doubt that the PCs would have to produce solid proof of the Zhents scheme. :) |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 16:32:05
Interesting ideas, Portella. Thanks. I agree that much depends on the PCs course of action. Forgive my ignorance of 3rd Edition(?) --I'm still in 2nd Edition--, but what does "DC" refer to?
ShadezofDis, I like your idea of framing PCs; although I do not want to miss the opportunity to, as Hoondatha put it, "scare the begeezus out of the players". One of the goals of this encounter is to give my young newbie players (under 12) a near death experience, without necessarily killing them, so that they will perhaps learn to be more cautious about their actions than they have been so far.
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| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 15:11:36
I'd just have the agents steal the letter and frame the PCs for a crime (to discredit the PCs before the PCs can speak to the authorities). Perhaps they could plant an item stolen from a local temple in the PCs gear and just let the divination magic bring the angry priests (with the authorities in tow) to the PCs door.
Further, you could have a Zhent agent in authority, or you could have some of the people who are in the authorities be influenced by Zhent bribes, blackmail, enchantment magic or a host of other things. :) |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 00:12:38
Thanks for the ideas, Rjfras. In this case, however, the threatening tactic is not really consistent with the story as I've developed it so far.
Afet |
| Portella |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 23:11:34
we forget some players mage or sorcerers use the alarm spell before they go to sleep. besides i think the main question that afet asked in the original post is how can he deal with this kind of situation to give the player character a reasonable chance to save their skins. In that case, afet you have to take into consideration everythign that the player characters have done or are doing while in the inn, like if they decided to get completely drunk and all PC go to sleep quite so very drunk then i wouldnt say they have much of chance to wake up or even do anything but if they decide to go to sleep with people taking turns to watch over then or cast spells to alarm then if anyone gets in the room then is a diferent story. you have to decide how your assassins are going to the deed and take into consideration what the player have done and then you have the value you need to let the player found out if they are dead or not. make up a number for the assassins DC lower the worse is their job is and higher better assassins they are. then add a modifier that can be negative or positive and that will is the awares of the player character, make up a table for that from fully aware (with the help of ESP spells and the like) to not aware at all (sleep or unconscious) these can be multiple modifiers that you add up or just plain one.
then tell them to throw the d20. if they get a number below the assassins (even with the modifiers) they dont wake up if they get higher or equal they wake up.
I would do this for each player.
anyway let me know what u think
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| Hoondatha |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 22:43:32
True, but threatening family members is a rather drastic step. As a DM, it's something you can't do very often. I'd prefer to not to go to that well quite this early in a campaign. |
| rjfras |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 21:59:35
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Ah, but we're talking 2e elves here, who are in reverie and take as long to wake up as humans coming out of a deep sleep. It's in the 2e Complete Book of Elves.
Yes, but the sentence just before that is also key... "During this time, they are aware of their surroundings, but they cannot act to influence them any more then a human can while asleep. "
"Only by an act of will can an elf tear herself from reverie, and she will be confused for a short time, just as a human would be who has torn himself from sleep."
So, while they will take a few seconds to be fully aware, they are aware and can force themselves to come out of reverie if they in this example, see someone breaking into their room or sneaking around.
Also, does your group have any healers? If so, when do they pray for their spells? Quite a few pray for their spells at midnight. If that is the case, one of the PCs could be awake, when the assassins arrive, praying for their spells for the next day. Again this works only if they are following a god/goddess who's clerics/druids pray at night.
As for trying to silence them, killing is not the only way to silence someone. As suggessted earlier, a dagger or some other way to make it clear to the PCs that they could have been killed if they wanted them dead, should make the PCs try and figure out why someone is sending them a message. Look at movies and books where someone calls or leaves a note as a threat, telling the character that they best be quiet or telling them that they better not contact the authorities if they know what's good for them.
You also do not have to directly threaten their well being. If the PCs have family, you can have the Zhents leave something from the PCs family's house as a sign that if they don't keep quiet something bad could happen to the PCs family. This time it was only a necklace or piece of recognizable clothing, next time it might be their head... |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 22 Apr 2008 : 03:43:24
Ah, but we're talking 2e elves here, who are in reverie and take as long to wake up as humans coming out of a deep sleep. It's in the 2e Complete Book of Elves. |
| Portella |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 22:02:10
Elves do not sleep as most other creatures do, instead falling into a four-hour restful trance. Consequently, elves are unaffected by sleep-inducing spells and effects, and are able to remain active far longer than other races.
so if you have elfs in the group they may be in their trance able (may be) to wake up
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| Hoondatha |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 18:21:49
We try.
To expand on Wooly's ideas, this is a great way to humble the PC's and scare the begeezus out of the players. *They* will certainly understand that they could have been killed (and, if you want to drive home that point, do something like leave a dagger thrust through a pillow next to a PC), and they'll be raring to avenge the insult. AND it'll be a long while before they take sleeping in an inn for granted. This is all in addition to whatever plot hooks you might want to throw the way Wooly suggested.
We're getting into killing five or six birds with a single stone here. Lots of fun. |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 18:01:08
Yes, very clever. Great ideas! As it stands, however, the assassins do not only want the letter; they also want to silence the PCs before they have a chance to speak to the authorities about what they have discovered. I'll give it some thought. |
| Aravine |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 17:24:09
Very clever... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 17:14:35
That's a really good point. If there isn't a need for the PCs to be attacked, you really only need one person to sneak in to grab the letter. That makes things a lot easier.
You could compound the issue for the PCs by having them lose all or some of their gold. Stealing items is generally something DMs should avoid, but having the thief grab a convenient bag of gold still gets the PCs' attention without pissing off the players.
And for more fun, the thief could also grab a single dagger or something. The dagger, a recently-found bit of treasure, was something the PCs thought was non-magical and not worth overly much. But when it gets stolen, the PCs realize there is more to it... Perhaps it was lost by someone prominent who will be embarassed by it turning up, or perhaps it's going to be used to confirm the identity of a possibly false noble, or perhaps it's the key to a Sword Herald refuge... Doing something like that, you can get a couple of plot hooks out of a simple theft.  |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 16:47:26
I agree with Zanan. In this case, the NPC's aren't trying to kill the characters, they're trying to get a letter back. Very different thing. Here, I wouldn't even try to attack the PC's at all. Just slip in, grab the letter, and slip out. They only get into a fight if the PC's wake up and start one, and it's probably a rear-guard action where one flees with the letter while the others block pursuit.
And since we're no longer looking at insta-kill, you don't have to fake die rolls or have creaky floorboard plot devices or anything. If the PC's set no watch and no one rolls to wake up, then they lose the letter. They wake the next morning to discover it's gone (or not, depending on how sloppy they are), which means they either have to go get it again, or they write it off completely. Either way, they learn a valuable lesson in paranoia any blood necessarily having been drawn. |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 14:53:03
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
How much magic do these assassins have access to, anyway?
None, per se. A couple of them have magical items, but none are magic users. |
| Zanan |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 14:24:31
Good good. So in essence, they could just sneak in, try to get the letter and "only" if the PCs wake up, they would get the fright of their lives* and face a deadly attack**. The best thief is the one that does not make his/her presence felt / know under any circumstance. If they have a darker intend, I'd arrange it that the letter-thief is the only Zhent who knows something, while the others are just hired blades paid for just this one thievery and potential blood-letting.
*And rightly so, because they are not half-as paranoid as it would suit a decent adventurer 
** Dito! |
| Karzak |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 14:04:45
How much magic do these assassins have access to, anyway? |
| Afetbinttuzani |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 14:00:17
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Need the "assassins" be rogues?
Again I reveal my newby status. The "assassins" I've been talking about are not really assassins in the class sense. They are rogues on the lower rungs of the Zhentarim ladder who are trying silence the PCs and recover from them a letter. These Zhent agents know full well that, if the letter remains a secret, they stand to become wealthy and powerful in the region (they believe), whereas if, in their incompetence, they allow the letter to fall into the hands of the authorities and thereby reveal part of a plot that has been years in the making, they will almost certainly suffer a long and torturous death at the hands of their masters. In other words, these "assassins" are actually self-interested rogues working together out of necessity. While they are not incompetent, they are not professional assassins.
Afet |
| Zanan |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 10:05:28
Need the "assassins" be rogues? I mean, one or two may be, others need not too.
Many pro's an con's. The common killer will simply try to sneak in and slit the throat. The average "assassin" (PrC) can easily (as in EASILY) get himself a potion of silence, take 10 or 20 on Move Silently / Open Locks checks (time is on his/her side), study each victim three rounds and DA it. Of course, by common sense, a sleeping character is helpless and as the DMG says, a dagger through the eye is, no matter what the rules say, a dagger through the eye.
If the players deserve it, they should be prepared (paranoia, alarm spell, guards and watches)? If they go unprepared, I still would not kill the entire group straight away, but leave a final and lethal reminder.
Speaking of which, check the 3,0Es Song and Silence for the various garrotes ... nasty tools. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 03:42:05
Karzak, check your PMs. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 03:29:12
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I think PCs should always set up a watch at night, or at the very least take reasonable precautions with regards to their soon-to-be vunerable, sleeping forms.
I don't agree. Not all celebrities in real-world post a guard at their bedroom door at night. Sure, they have alarms, dogs in the yard, and a 15-foot wall with security cameras, but that's at home... when they travel, and go to an hotel, the only security they have sometimes is to be booked under a false name. I would expect that famous heroes would do something similar, and not fall prey to a constant paranoia... (*some* celebs are paranoid, but I'd say the majority are not, and have learned to live with it...) |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 03:29:12
I may be biased since my other RPG of choice is Shadowrun, but in my mind, if the PC's have screwed up big enough to have assassins sent after them, they deserve whatever they get. And that's coming from a game where all you need to kill someone is a high-powered rifle and a window (I should know, I played a sniper character for years).
That said, there are varying levels of assassins, and some are better at sneaking than actually killing. If you want to use this attack more as a "boy we really must be onto something here!" emphasis point, I'd cut the number and level of assassins. 2-3 of level 1-2, for instance. After all, the PC's are supposed to be asleep, and haven't shown any real amount of competence to the bad guys (probably), so why would they pay top coin for the best there is? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 02:56:06
I think PCs should always set up a watch at night, or at the very least take reasonable precautions with regards to their soon-to-be vunerable, sleeping forms. |
| GoCeraf |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 02:50:55
[whisper]...Dude! Quit while you're ahead![/whisper]
Incidentally, in a game I've played with some friends, we had an apartment that was essentially our base of operations. Unfortunately, EVERY villain in the game knew where we lived, so if we felt like advancing the plot, we just slept there. With a combination of alarms on all the entrances, or just plain leaving the next morning if nothing happened, we were prepared for all the fights involving assassins carrying "writs of execution."
Maybe you should go for something different, like a wizard amongst a group of mercenaries who starts the encounter by just blasting the inn with a fireball. Then, it becomes an exciting ditch to get out of the building, either by diving through a window or making one's way to the bottom floor. If the mercenaries are waiting outside, it'll be a memorable battle involving daring accounts of escape, rescue, and battle!
And once the fire reaches the beer barrels in the basement... |
| Karzak |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 02:33:54
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Railroading is not a taboo. Accusing someone of railroading when there is no reason to make that call is something I find irksome, though. And some of your other posts have been overly sarcastic and elitist, so that was why I made that statement.
Then perhaps it would be better to address your statement to posts of mine where it is relevant? At this rate, I half-expect you to see my name and immediately react with "DON'T BE SO ELITIST AND SARCASTIC HERE IS A LINK TO CODE OF CONDUCT" even if my comment consists of nothing more than "I like pie."
Also, seconding what Kentinal said. That is why I found the whole "my players will most likely have their throats slit" thing more than a little iffy. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 02:24:48
2nd DMG quote:
Overuse of assassins can often result in bitter feelings and outright feuding—player vs. player or player vs DM. Neither of these is fun or healthy for a game. Finally, it is a very risky business. Assassins do get caught and generally have no compunctions about confessing who their employer is. Once the target learns this, the player character will have a very dangerous life. Then the player character can discover the joy and excitement of having assassins looking for him!
No DM should be sendind assassins after PCs unless they have reasonable warning that an act of theires would cause the problem. A PC party knowing assassins might be coming clearly would at minimun have one awake at all times (or magic alarm). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 01:40:20
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Make them roll a save versus railroading. =p
Oh, please. Was that really necessary? Just because the PCs are attacked by assassins, that doesn't mean they're being railroaded -- especially since the poster is asking how to give them a chance to wake up and fight back! There is absolutely zero indication of any railroading.
This is a community where we try to help each other out. And the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct mandates that we treat each other with courtesy. It would be nice if you could try to be friendly instead of sarcastic or elitist. 
Wow. That was meant lightly; I'm sorry if "railroading" is such a huge taboo to you that it can set you off to this extent. Also, it'd be nice if you could use the word "elitist" precisely. This, sarcastic? Quite, albeit it wasn't meant maliciously (and I apologize if anyone read it that way). Elitist? Now that's just bizarre.
Railroading is not a taboo. Accusing someone of railroading when there is no reason to make that call is something I find irksome, though. And some of your other posts have been overly sarcastic and elitist, so that was why I made that statement. |
| Karzak |
Posted - 20 Apr 2008 : 22:32:56
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Make them roll a save versus railroading. =p
Oh, please. Was that really necessary? Just because the PCs are attacked by assassins, that doesn't mean they're being railroaded -- especially since the poster is asking how to give them a chance to wake up and fight back! There is absolutely zero indication of any railroading.
This is a community where we try to help each other out. And the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct mandates that we treat each other with courtesy. It would be nice if you could try to be friendly instead of sarcastic or elitist.
Wow. That was meant lightly; I'm sorry if "railroading" is such a huge taboo to you that it can set you off to this extent. Also, it'd be nice if you could use the word "elitist" precisely. This, sarcastic? Quite, albeit it wasn't meant maliciously (and I apologize if anyone read it that way). Elitist? Now that's just bizarre. |
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