| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Rhewtani |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 21:40:53
So, with the advent of 4e, I keep thinking about differences between versions. I got into the Realms in the midst of the 3e timeset, so I missed a lot of the shiftings from 1e to 2e and 2e to 3e.
So, what could you do in 1e that you couldn't in 2e? What couldn't you do in 1e the you could in 2e? And so forth.
My understanding is that at one point Dwarves couldn't use spells. When was this, when did it change?
Someday I'm going to run a series of campaigns using 4e rules but using 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition adventures. I want to keep the limits in though, so that the adventures will be true to their times.
Throw some info at me, please. |
| 3 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Faraer |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 00:25:55
There are race/class/level limits if you go literally by the book, but DMs aren't supposed to follow them slavishly, except in tournaments. To have an exceptional dwarven wizard, you just have one, as an exception -- this is what 3E ideologues call 'DM fiat' and I call normal DMing. And Realmslore doesn't follow them slavishly: many pre-3E sources feature characters not strictly according to the rules.
In contrast, Wizards decided that to fit the new ruleset, dwarven wizards had to be not only possible but normal. This thinking -- similar to making all halflings adventurous so your PC wasn't unusual any more, or the influx of tieflings in the 4E Realms -- was never explained.
If you want to be true to something, don't be true to their times, be true to Realmslore. Those adventures readily 'broke' the rules when the lore contradicted them. Cases where setting elements are inadvertently distorted by inapplicable rules are called rules artefacts. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 22:44:22
quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
My understanding is that at one point Dwarves couldn't use spells. When was this, when did it change?
In 2E (and I believe 1E, as well), dwarves didn't have much to do with arcane magic (as opposed to divine magic). They could be clerics, but not mages. While there were a couple of odd cases of dwarven wizards in the Realms, they were very much in the minority. In 2E rules, dwarves could not become Wizards (which included regular and specialist mages). Further, dwarves using magical items had a chance of failure (20%) unless the item was keyed to their class.
One notable thing about 2E was class and race restrictions. Only humans could have unlimited advancement in any class (except for half-elf bards), and only humans could be paladins. The flipside was that humans couldn't multiclass (though they could dual-class, which mean abandoning a prior class for a new one; you had to have good stats to do it). All other races could multiclass, but there were restrictions on the multiclass combinations (for example, elves couldn't be fighter/clerics, but dwarves could). And there were level caps, meaning that you could only advance past a particular level if the DM allowed it. Dwarves could make level 15 as a fighter, 10 as a cleric, and 12 as a thief -- and those classes were all dwarves could take.
While some specific campaign worlds (notably Krynn) changed these restrictions, these restrictions covered every setting unless otherwise noted.
All class and race restrictions were chucked out the window in 3E. With 3E, everyone could multiclass in any combination imaginable, and every race had unlimited advancement in all classes.
In the Realms, the sudden ability of dwarves to use magic was one of many changes wrought by 3E that the designers never deigned to explain. They even had the perfect vehicle to do it, too -- the Thunder Blessing, which explained why a race previously in decline suddenly started thriving again. And yet, they simply brushed aside the opportunity to explain this change, as they did with so many other things in 3E. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 22:03:19
OK, basic changes from 1st to 2nd edition...not that many, Assassins and Monks weren't playable anymore, the Cavalier and Barbarian were dropped, and those characters using those classes were either dead (most assassins), gone off to be NPCs (Monks), or became Fighters (Cavaliers and Barbarians). The basic concept in 1st and 2nd edition was the same.
2nd to 3rd edition. More dwarves, every race has its casters (both arcane and divine), monk and barbarian returned as playable classes.
As for running 1st and 2nd edition modules with 3e, relatively easy, as you usually have to just replace the monsters (screw CR) work out a little in terms of NPCs etc, and set the traps anew. 1st and 2nd edition in terms of modules was basically interchangeable.
I doubt you can run older modules with 4e without some serious planning and preparation as the parameters have been completely changed.
If you wanna play 4e, go with the new releases, because the older stuff will not readily work with the new rules. |
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