| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Slaygrim |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 21:28:16
In the last adventure, the PC's battled an assassin hired to slay them. When he first made his move, he Death Attacked the wizard when he wasn't paying attention and of course the wizard, having a weak fortitude save, died. The players managed to kill the assassin despite all of his hiding and stealthing, but that didn't help the poor elf wizard.
The point is, after the battle-which took place in Waterdeep-the player of the elf wizard wanted to be resurrected rather than make a new character. How would you handle a situation like this?
I allowed it, because I don't want to alienate the players in a way that makes them no longer want to play, but I don't like it. I think it takes away from the game when there are no consequences for dying other than paying a cleric to bring the deceased back. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Khaelieth |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 08:36:32
Usually, trying to get ressurected is fairly difficult in my campaigns. Very little could persuade me to leave Paradise (or the equivelant). So unless they can persuade the dead to return, it's not happening. |
| Gwydion669 |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 12:06:04
Hmmm ... I really like that list of 13.
In our gaming group, it varied (but was fun for all).
Resurrection was cheap and easy for our paladin, Mezra Theygood. It became part of his character concept ... part of his charm. Bards would sing of his heroic fourteenth (or was it fifteenth?) death in the Mere of Dead Men.
For everyone else, it was sheer hell.
1. Take the stiff to a cleric with the same deity of a level sufficient to cast the spell. "
Somebody grab that wolf! It's got Lornea's leg!"
2. Cleric asks how much gold the party has. Casts augry to verify. "What do you mean 'That's the downpayment'!"
3. Cleric tasks party with some mission for his church. "What do you mean you always wanted to serve beholder stew on your High Holy Day!?!"
4. Group trudges off on mission with resurrected character who is 1 level lower.
That was for deaths resulting from player stupidity. In heroic and/or extenuating circumstances, we might get off a bit easier.
As in no wolves ... or at least we'd catch the wolf before the leg was digested. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 03:21:09
Status is still "dying" yes... |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 19 Jun 2008 : 08:42:59
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Psionic Revivify = Revivify (the only difference is that the psionic one lets you add rounds between the death of the victim and the casting of the spell, which is too powerful IMHO)
Thanks for the info.
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Delay Death ==> as an immediate action (which you can do in response to someone getting whacked below 0 hit points...) the target does not die at -10 any longer (the spell removes that limit and the target can take any amount of damage and not die during the spell's 1 round/level duration); so you can have a character be a -1000 hit points and not die, provided you heal him to -9 or higher before the spell expires!  This spell only prevent death from hit point damage: death attacks, coups de grace, energy drain, constitution damage or drain can still kill the character.
Best cleric spell ever.
Now that actually sounds like fun. But I don't quite understand what the status of that person is? 'Dying', 'disabled' or still alive and kicking?! |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 19 Jun 2008 : 04:48:31
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Delay Death
Cleric 4
Spell Compendium
Best cleric spell ever!
As I said above I don't have my Spell COmpendium at hand atm. Any chance you could share this 'best cleric spell ever' with me? Thanks in advance.
And any thoughts on differences/similarities of Psionic Revivify vs. Revivify (see above) would be highly appreciated as well.
Ergdusch
Psionic Revivify = Revivify (the only difference is that the psionic one lets you add rounds between the death of the victim and the casting of the spell, which is too powerful IMHO)
Delay Death ==> as an immediate action (which you can do in response to someone getting whacked below 0 hit points...) the target does not die at -10 any longer (the spell removes that limit and the target can take any amount of damage and not die during the spell's 1 round/level duration); so you can have a character be a -1000 hit points and not die, provided you heal him to -9 or higher before the spell expires! This spell only prevent death from hit point damage: death attacks, coups de grace, energy drain, constitution damage or drain can still kill the character.
Best cleric spell ever.
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 22:38:02
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Delay Death
Cleric 4
Spell Compendium
Best cleric spell ever!
As I said above I don't have my Spell COmpendium at hand atm. Any chance you could share this 'best cleric spell ever' with me? Thanks in advance.
And any thoughts on differences/similarities of Psionic Revivify vs. Revivify (see above) would be highly appreciated as well.
Ergdusch |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 22:32:51
Delay Death
Cleric 4
Spell Compendium
Best cleric spell ever! |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 14:43:09
On my hunt to find the stats for the Revivify-spell I stumbled across Psionic Revivify
quote:
Originally from the 3.5 SRD - Psionic Powers List:
Psionic Revivify
Psychometabolism (Healing) [Good]
Level: Egoist 5
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Dead creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: Yes (harmless)
Power Points: 9, XP
Psionic revivify lets a manifester reconnect a corpse’s psyche with its body, restoring life to a recently deceased creature. The power must be manifested within 1 round of the victim’s death. Before the psyche of the deceased has completely left the body, this power halts its journey while repairing somewhat the damage to the body.
This power functions like the raise dead spell, except that the affected creature receives no level loss, no Constitution loss, and no loss of powers.
The creature has -1 hit points (but is stable) after being restored to life.
XP Cost: 200 XP.
Augment: For every 100 additional experience points that both you and the subject pay, the manifestation of this power can be delayed by 1 additional round.
Could someone possibly compare this to the 5th lvl cleric spell from the Spell Compendium and let me know about any differences.
Thanks, Ergdusch
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 07:53:18
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Hey, revivify is canon! it's in the Spell Compendium! 
I can't find my Spell Compendium anymore. Have I lent it out to somebody? Mmmh!!? 
Be that as it may, I would like to have excess to this spell anyhow. Does somebody know a link or might be so kind and post the stats and spell discription here?
Thanks in advance. Much appreciated.
Ergdusch |
| GRYPHON |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 11:50:19
quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir--
The DM I am currently playing with does not let PCs die, unless the player wants them to, but I told her if my character messes up and does something that should result in her death (without DM interference), including just a bad roll, then let whatever happens happen. I LOVE my character and am really attached to her, but life happens. She would not want to be resurrected and will not be. Guess she just better not do anything stupid.
True...I do not let PC's die...unless they do something catastrophically stupid. As to whether or not they want the character resurrected...well, that is up to them. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 29 Jan 2008 : 23:26:40
Raising the Dead in Charles Phipps' Faerun
I made it a point in my games that Resurrection does exist but it's a lot less common in my games than people think. Basically, in my realms, most churches aren't made of Spellcasting priests to begin with and levels are more like Eberron.
I.e. 13th level is fairly High Level in my Faerun.
But in addition to all that. Raise Dead and its variants are only granted as "Special" Gifts from One's Deity. Thus, only like 13 guys in the whole of Faerun have the ability to raise the Dead and most of them don't do it for money.
A short list for my games is provided here.
1. Fzoul Chembyrl (See FRCS)
Conditions: Only resurrects worshipers of Bane or members of the Zhentariam. Fzoul Chembyrl will often do this service for "free" if the operatives are especially valuable to him. Fzoul has been known to Speak with the Dead first to see if a powerful adventurer is willing to become a Banite if he's brought back, if so, he's been known to raise enemies and charge them a quest.
2. Cadderly (See Silver Marches)
Conditions: Cadderly will only resurrect children, innocents that have been murdered, and individuals who have perished on a quest that needs to be completed. Part of his powers as Chosen of Deneir means that he automatically knows the Alignment and disposition of a subject who wants to be raised. Cadderly shells out the cost of the Diamond Focus out of his own pockets in the case of kids. Deneir Clerics also can 'work it off' at the Spirit Soaring Cathedral by doing healings and other jobs.
3. Grand Harvester of Souls Merlyn the Second (LN Female Half-Elf Priest of Kelemvor 17)
Conditions: Will only ressurrect "Heroes" of Good or Neutral alignment. They must be of exceptional fame (13th level or above) for her to consider any that do not worship Kelemvor. One must make a donation equal to twice the cost of the diamond and destroy a sentient undead creature as a sacrifice as part of the ceremony. She will not attempt to resurrect anyone who died of natural causes or a particularly glorious death.
4. Elminster of Shadowdale (See FRCS)
Conditions: Technically not a Priest but one of the few granted the power to Raise the Dead by Mystra. Elminster can be entreated to do so, begged, bribed, or pleaded with to no avail or might simply raise the dead on a whim. Bizarrely, there's a 20% chance he'll do it if one presents him a barrel of pipeweed though.
5. Dawnmaster Gavin Brightstar (Baldur's Gate NPC, NG Male Human Priest of Lathander 18)
Conditions: The head of the Church of Lathander outside of Bereghost and self-styled Patriarch of all "true" worshipers of Lathander, Gavin will only raise the dead if one spends up to twenty minutes flattering him. A donation is required equal to the cost of the diamond and an additional twice as much. Gavin's hatred of Cyricists actually means he'll wave the donation and half the diamond's cost if one can bring him proof of a slain High Priest of that God.
6. Dawnmistress Alexia Soulkeeper) (N Female Half-Priestess of Lathander 16)
Conditions: The Dawnmistress of Waterdeep has been blessed with Lathander's power ever since they spent the night together. Dawnmistress Alexia Soulkeeper refuses to raise Evil NPCs or anyone who doesn't worship Lathander, unlike her counterpart in Bereghost. She only charges the cost of the Diamond, however. The Raised are expected to go on a quest in Lathander's name afterwards.
7. Grand Justicar Foehammer (LG Male Dwarf Priest of Tyr 15)
Conditions: Grand Justicar Foehammer will only resurrect LG worshipers of Tyr normally but will make an exception for Dwarves of Good Alignment due to his racial loyalty. The Grand Justicar will automatically refuse any request that brings up the painful subject of his being a Dwarf that doesn't worship the Dwarvish pantheon. He charges nothing but a quest to do something that strengthens the Justice in the North.
8. Manshoon (See FRCS)
Conditions: Provided one can get an audience with one of the Manshoon clones (The Vampire Manshoon being the exception) and one is sufficiently grovelling, the former Lord of the Zhentariam can be persuaded to Clone a subject. It will require a fairly massive bribe in spell books, magical items, and gold (equal to ten times the cost of a Resurrection Diamond). He will also expect a "favor" in the future with the implicit understanding he'll incinerate anyone who welches. Manshoon only needs a piece of the subject's flesh and is talented enough that post-death doesn't matter.
9. Lord Darkness Volthume (NE Male Elf Priest of Shar 15)
Conditions: The Netherese missionary Volthume will resurrect any Shar worshiper that is willing to pay twice the cost of the diamond and will raise a Shadow Weave user that doesn't worship Shar in exchange for three times the cost. Volthume will only raise Neutral or Evil subjects as a general rule. Volthume has rather demonic tastes and will require the offering of a Young Maiden as part of the ritual for his own use then sacrifice (Mystra or Selune female clerics will have Volthume wave the fee). Finding him will be a problem since he wanders the Realms but a message can be left for him in Shade.
10. Witch King of the Hidden Blood Acturus (NE Male Lich [Dwarf] Priest of Velsharoon 18)
Conditions: Acturus is an insanely evil and twisted Necromancer that had no real talent for magic but is grateful for Velsharoon's ascension. A former Acolyte of Orcus, he's almost completely amoral and will only raise Evil individuals. Acturus requires a blood offering of ten sentient humans or humanoids in exchange for the ressurection plus the Diamond's expenditure. However, he has no problem performing the act as often as the individuals require so long as they pay. Acturus has a 10% chance of bringing them back as Mummies or Vampires however.
11. Aelyse (CG Female Priest of Llirra 15)
Conditions: A bright, happy, and bubbly woman whom absolutely adores the world around her. Aelyse is blessed with the power of raising the dead and does so without the requirements of the diamond. Her requirements are usually that a person be both Chaotic and Good though she's made exceptions for Neutral and Chaotic Neutral individuals before.
Aelyse, does however usually only help those out to help the world in some suitably romantic and dashing way. She often insists that they go forth on a quest to prove themselves as well, though she may do a resurrection on the spot anyway. Serious individuals have very little chance of getting help but, bizarrely, due to a past relationship with Kelemvor the God she will raise his followers for free.
12. Great Druid Robyn Kendrick (see FRCS)
Conditions: Will Reincarnate a sincere worshiper of the Earthmother into a Demihuman race of their choice. The subject in question must set forth on a quest to slay some horrible monster of the Moonshaes before the ritual stabilizes though, this represents death.
13. The Lord Coin Jobison: (Human Male Priest of Waukeen 10)
Conditions: Only knows the Raise Dead Spell but will perform the act purely for a flat fee of x5 the cost of the Diamond and Travel expenses with no questions asked. The Lord Coin can be bargained with down to x2 but is aware that his services are well desired. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 23:49:59
Well, 25,000gp is pretty hard to come by if you play most published adventures out there. One PC in my campaign has been raised three or four times in its 20-level progression, and this PC now lags two-three levels behind the rest of the party, and about 300,000gp behind the average gp-worth of the rest of the PCs (should be just 50K to 100K, technically, but his absence were oftentimes during treasure allocation, and I guess when you're dead, you don't always get the choice meats! ) |
| AlorinDawn |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 18:19:09
I've been thinking about this topic for some time. We haven't used a raise dead type spell in our campaign in a rather long time save for an high profile NPC who got the best, the 25000 GP diamond True Resurrection. I am going to suggest to my co-DM that we remove all of the raise dead spells save for True Resurrection, the spells that bring folks back a few rounds after they have been dead only (revivify or something like that), and reincarnation. I'm also considering tacking an XP penalty on these spells. Now that I think about it, maybe the True Resurrection should have the effect (penalties) of the current Resurrection spell. I just want these spells and dying to mean something. |
| Brynweir |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 13:01:23
quote:
Originally posted by LordArcana
Ok this might sound "buttholish" but there is no point to playing D&D if there is no risk vs. reward. If players want treasure, fame and honor without risk then they should read a book. That is something i stress as both a player and a DM. As a player i hate more than anything out of character use of information as well whining at the table.
I agree it sucks to have your character killed but its important to play "in character". Would the character want to be brought back? Would an ELF want to be brought back? If the group cleric didn't have access to revivify then death becomes a moral issue that should be taken seriously.
As a player i have had characters i absolutely loved. characters i had done such cool things with and worked hard to develop. It hurts when they die but not wanting to be cheesy i just let them die with honor and let their heroics become that of songs and legend. Then again i have had characters that i justified wanting to return because they were killed in a manner that didn't do them justice.
I have to say that I agree with this completely. I love the idea of "realistic" danger. If there is no danger in the character dying, then where is the rush? I almost always refuse OOC iformation too (unless it is necessary to move the campaign forward past something I can't see) I love the DRAMA involved and the mystery in being the character trying to figure it all out. This works best for ME if I am also tryng to figure it out- lol.
The DM I am currently playing with does not let PCs die, unless the player wants them to, but I told her if my character messes up and does something that should result in her death (without DM interference), including just a bad roll, then let whatever happens happen. I LOVE my character and am really attached to her, but life happens. She would not want to be resurrected and will not be. Guess she just better not do anything stupid -
|
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 02:56:48
Hey, revivify is canon! it's in the Spell Compendium! |
| Faraer |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 00:59:24
The closest thing to KnightErrantJR's revivify in the D&D canon is the 3rd-level cleric spell death's door in Unearthed Arcana, which stabilizes a character at -1 to 1-9 hp. (In 1E, going below 0 hp is more serious than in later versions of the game, and means death unless you use an optional rule.) |
| Grehnar |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 15:53:00
One of the quirks of the Realms is that it doesn't generally work unless the recently deceased was a follower of a (living) deity. Sometimes the answer is 'no'. This could become a common problem in the future for a lot of wizards. |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 13:17:02
BTW, I started a similar discussion a while back - The Realms and raising the Dead. We talked about diamonds and their availability as well. You might want to read throught it. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 11:08:04
I think theres been one case of Resurrection being cast in any of my campaigns. I must admit that I never encouraged the use of the spell either. I cant remember what price the group had to pay the priest, but it was some sort of quest. The character in question had a minor breakdown because of the return from the dead and was more or less taken out of the campaign. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 23:53:37
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yeah, should have cited that one . . . it appeared in Dragon magazine, the Spell Compendium, and the Miniatures Handbook. The last group I DMed for, the cleric had one scroll for each of the party members.
IMC, I allow clerics to cast all "Conjuration (Healing)" spells spontaneously, including Close Wounds, Revivify, "Raise Outsider", etc. Mass Heal at 9th is especially handy...
Edit: I DM a group of 20th level PCs... granted, when they were 3 or 4, there were more casualties. Now they are a party of 7 and not every major fight "kills one of them." Nevertheless, I find that my particular group does not prepare often, and enters most fight half-cocked... |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 21:21:27
Yeah, should have cited that one . . . it appeared in Dragon magazine, the Spell Compendium, and the Miniatures Handbook. The last group I DMed for, the cleric had one scroll for each of the party members. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 21:14:36
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
One of my favorite inventions was the Revivify spell, which is 5th level and essentially is a Raise Dead that has to be cast within one round of someone dying, and has no long term effects on the character.
It feels much more like a "I saved him just in time" spell than it does a "I brought him back from the dead" spell, and still has an expensive component.
That's a great idea. If that was never an official spell, it should have been. |
| LordArcana |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 21:01:16
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
I actually encourage resurrection IMC. I hate to waste my DM time on character creation. Long-standing PCs make for a better story: new PCs showing every other game cheapen the story IMHO (because, frankly, you're not a good DM at high levels if at least one PC does not die at the end of a major boss fight...)
~::: Personally i would hardly say that is true. Being a good or bad DM doesn't have the requirement of killing off PC's. Any DM "can" kill even high level PC's with just a single goblin but it doesn't mean you have to. I would think a "good" DM would do everything in his power to simply play the NPC's appropriately and in bounds of their knowledge. If the PC's prepare well for an encounter with the big bady and the dice are with them, i think its hardly appropriate to kill one of them just because its what a "good" DM does.
**EDIT**
I have found, at least in my groups, the vast majority of times a PC dies is due to that players desire to show one-up over another player that has done someing "cool" recently. The warrior that walks alone trying to be billy bad ass today...or the rogue that sneaks off trying to set up position to get sneak attack instead of just moving into flank. Rarely do PC's i have seen die without making mistakes as players. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 20:00:30
I actually encourage resurrection IMC. I hate to waste my DM time on character creation. Long-standing PCs make for a better story: new PCs showing every other game cheapen the story IMHO (because, frankly, you're not a good DM at high levels if at least one PC does not die at the end of a major boss fight...) |
| Ozzalum |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 19:11:07
quote:
One of my favorite inventions was the Revivify spell, which is 5th level and essentially is a Raise Dead that has to be cast within one round of someone dying, and has no long term effects on the character.
It feels much more like a "I saved him just in time" spell than it does a "I brought him back from the dead" spell, and still has an expensive component.
That's a good one. I also like the spell "Reanimate" from Oriental Adventures. The person comes back to life, but only has 1 hp, can't do much, and will die again in a short time (after 1day/caster level?) unless other measures are taken, like a Raise Dead. It's like an advanced Gentle Repose. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 17:08:33
One of my favorite inventions was the Revivify spell, which is 5th level and essentially is a Raise Dead that has to be cast within one round of someone dying, and has no long term effects on the character.
It feels much more like a "I saved him just in time" spell than it does a "I brought him back from the dead" spell, and still has an expensive component. |
| Ozzalum |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 15:56:36
quote:
Without the players knowledge i talked to the DM and converted my character to a ghost using the rules in the Monster Manual, which i thought was a freaking awesome idea on my part...completely within the bounds of reason given the situation.
I've always wanted to do this. Too bad it didn't work out in the long run but it must have been satisfying to reach out from beyond the grave to demonstrate to your ungrateful companions just how worthless they were.
I actually prefer the option of coming back as some form of undead to the typical raise dead/resurrection. It feels less gamey to me. |
| Slaygrim |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 15:35:50
The player in question has shown interest in making a new character, so this may turn out better. I let him do the resurrection despitebeing an elf because of the circumstances of his death, but he realizes how unlikely his character would return. So after speaking with him last night, he showed interest in perhaps making another character. If he does do this, we can assume he was never resurrected to begin with, as when we did it the adventure was pretty much over for the night. That was the last thing they did.
|
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 10:50:24
It is always difficult when a PC dies and cannot blame his own stupidity for it. That is how I experienced it. Every time a PC died because of his own actions it was fine. No whining and crying and the group took every burden to bring the loved PC back to the game. And I mean anything even a quest and a pact with a demon.
However, a death that the PC did not see coming in the first place gives him the sense that he was left no chance against an uber-powerful mercyless DM. Like deadly traps, assassinations or the like. Therefore, in those circumstances I was easier with the resurrection. Therefore, in your case, with the dead wizard, I would have been similar generous.
However, in future games I will handle the resurrection/raise dead very strictly to encourage my players to be more careful in the first place. Like Hoondatha said: 'Your in-character actions lead to in-character consequences, and if you do the action, you better be able to live with the consequences.' This should be discussed with a gaming group of course, so that everyone at the game table is happy.
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| Hoondatha |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 01:09:06
I also play in a Shadowrun game, which is far harsher than any D&D campaign I've ever been in (possibly excluding Dark Sun). There, there are plenty of ways for a character to get killed. My first, which I worked on for months, was killed in the first gaming session. More recently, another PC has been flirting with annoying a couple of groups enough that they'd send assassins after him, and the DM (a good friend of mine) and I had a conversation about what would happen if that actually occurred. Because in SR it's REALLY easy: even a guy with an average sniper rifle can one-shot just about anyone, anytime. I should know, the character I made after my first died did exactly that. It got to the point that in one battle the DM stopped rolling, and simply asked which two people I wanted to kill that turn.
What he said about the assassin was that if the game gets to that point, where you've annoyed people enough for them to send dedicated assassins after you, you deserve whatever you get. You should have played smarter, either not annoying the senders, or anticipating the assassin. Your in-character actions lead to in-character consequences, and if you do the action, you better be able to live with the consequences. |
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