| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Slaygrim |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 21:10:59
(I know I am starting a lot of threads here...)
What is your feeling on having "Magical Item Stores"? The players I game with like to ask (while in Waterdeep for instance) if they can stop by a store like the Xoblob Shop and see if there are magical items for sale. Would you allow this? If so what kind of items would you say the store has?
In my other thread I mentioned how the PC's have too many magical items. I don't know why I allow it, but I have allowed them to shop before, but I usually try to severly limit what is sold. I usually load the shop with just useful things, such as bags of holding or +1 weapons & armor. What is your take on this, as this can clearly get out of hand.
In addition, what about hiring a wizard to enchant your items? How difficult should this be, or should this even be an option? |
| 26 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| rjfras |
Posted - 26 Jun 2008 : 17:58:43
quote:
Originally posted by kraegor
Sorry to dredge up an old thread.. but.. this subject really bothers me.
If there are thousands of adventurers in the realms (and yes, there are). And they all have unwanted items.. who do they end up selling them too?
Especially in a city.. there's gotta be someone saying.. hey.. I could start up a verrrry lucrative business here, buying items for 7500gp and then selling them for 10,000gp.
I'd honestly think that every major city would have one or two magic shops just for this reason.
Humans are greedy you know.
See the reply above, specifically this part:
There are much, much more people with money or other valuables on their hands than folks capable of creating permanent magic items, even if only one-shot magic. Merchants, nobles, temples, governments, rulers, administrative bodies, other individuals like retired adventurers, etc... the list is almost endless. All these guys and girls will want magic, even if they can not use an item. In these cases, they'll see it as excellent barter object or investment. Like gems, magic doesn't go bad and concentrates huge sums of monetary value in small volumes. Since everyone wants magic, you'll garuanteed to have demand in the future
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| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 26 Jun 2008 : 07:45:10
In the campaign I play and when im DM'ing, we have magic shops, and potions stores. We use the Wizard guild in waterdeep as a fairground for all the +2,+4,+6 items. Yes this is powerful stuf, but someones in a city as big a waterdeep, with around 1.000.000 people in the city at all times items are in our view, not that hard to come by, when we are known adventures with thousands of gp. We know where to get it at how. but again we are lvl 20... in the begining we couldn'y even get a +1 sword. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Jun 2008 : 02:20:43
quote:
Originally posted by kraegor
Sorry to dredge up an old thread.. but.. this subject really bothers me.
If there are thousands of adventurers in the realms (and yes, there are). And they all have unwanted items.. who do they end up selling them too?
Especially in a city.. there's gotta be someone saying.. hey.. I could start up a verrrry lucrative business here, buying items for 7500gp and then selling them for 10,000gp.
I'd honestly think that every major city would have one or two magic shops just for this reason.
Humans are greedy you know.
Not many customers can afford that kind of price... And asking for those amounts of gold is like hanging out a sign inviting the local thieves' guild to pay you a visit. |
| kraegor |
Posted - 26 Jun 2008 : 02:05:52
Sorry to dredge up an old thread.. but.. this subject really bothers me.
If there are thousands of adventurers in the realms (and yes, there are). And they all have unwanted items.. who do they end up selling them too?
Especially in a city.. there's gotta be someone saying.. hey.. I could start up a verrrry lucrative business here, buying items for 7500gp and then selling them for 10,000gp.
I'd honestly think that every major city would have one or two magic shops just for this reason.
Humans are greedy you know. |
| Vangelor |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 04:10:44
In the Night Market, not far from Madame Three Pearl's Guest House, is a small shop without any sign at all known to those in the neighborhood simply as "Jolenthe's', after its half-elven proprietor. The boutique sells curiosities from across the Realms, and some of these are enchanted, but Jolenthe does a brisk trade, and is always making room for new stock, so there is not telling what she may have at any time.
Most of these items are second-hand. Wands may not have full charges, items may not function perfectly, and so on. But for adventurers needing a little something extra, Jolenthe usually can supply a trinket or two to meet demands. |
| tauster |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 16:21:32
quote:
Originally posted by ErgduschGuess investors lost quite some money due to the Spell-plague! Ouch!   
they could have as well made a fortune by going short in magic or buying put options!    |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 15:43:55
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
[...]In these cases, they'll see it as excellent barter object or investment. Like gems, magic doesn't go bad and concentrates huge sums of monetary value in small volumes. Since everyone wants magic, you'll garuanteed to have demand in the future. [...]
Guess investors lost quite some money due to the Spell-plague! Ouch! |
| Sian |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 15:09:02
i'm (sadly) prone to give my players some magic shops ... but i would like it i got them in a place where they at best could get masterworked items somewhat easily ... 'lucky' that i'm DM'ing Savage Tide ... as soon as i get them away from their starting city then i should have a much easier way to lock their shopping down (which i'll allready try to keep in line by haveing placed a tax on 5% on everything magical ... 'bonus' is that no of the characters have an easy way to get them back to the city |
| tauster |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 11:22:47
I agree with crazedventurers, and would add the following. It's my personal opinion, the way I see the "market for magic" working in the Realms.
I would keep Magic Item Shops as rare as possible, limiting it to people with really good connections to mages guilds in large cities like waterdeep or governmental bodies like cormyr's war wizards.
The reason why magic is not for sale so easily, and least of all not for sale for the prices in the game books:
Demand ALWAYS outstrips supply. Always and everywhere.
There are much, much more people with money or other valuables on their hands than folks capable of creating permanent magic items, even if only one-shot magic. Merchants, nobles, temples, governments, rulers, administrative bodies, other individuals like retired adventurers, etc... the list is almost endless. All these guys and girls will want magic, even if they can not use an item. In these cases, they'll see it as excellent barter object or investment. Like gems, magic doesn't go bad and concentrates huge sums of monetary value in small volumes. Since everyone wants magic, you'll garuanteed to have demand in the future
Situations where there's more magic for sale than the potential customers would buy should be:
- so rare that the roleplaying session should be remembered in years to come,
- have a shady/sinister background (adventure hook) and smell really fishy,
- not located on Faerun (other worlds or even other planes come to mind).
That said, IF (mind the capital "if"!) you have magic for sale, always multiply it's price several times over the standard price. Don't look at the creation costs, instead look what the market would bear. And if there is nobody rich enough there at the moment, everyone smart enough to create magic items would wait or travel to where enough rich people (i.e. DEMAND) are. Of course this implies there is no such thing as a "magic shoppe in a small village"...
[slightly off-topic]
One of my campaigns goes on for more than 6 years now, bringing the PC from level 1 to (yet) 11. Most of them have about on average a dozen magic items with them. Apart from a few potions (90% of them healing potions, and all bought from really good contacts they acquired during the game), nothing was outright bought. Almost everything was loot from hoards (shadow dragon, behir, colony of grell and other really tough monsters) as well as from winning over hostile NPC parties who were equipped according to their level, so after winning the battles (which were never easy), their magic equipment was "regular loot".
So even without magic shops I begin to have a monty haul-problem, as the players only VERY rarely give magic away. They dont abuse the magic accumulation, but in the meantime they have a hard time remembering all of their stuff, which takes away the sense of wondrousness. 
I think one solution would be to give them opportunities to give away the items they dont really need anymore (like some "+1" weapons & armor) to contacts that can help them in other ways, like getting them informations.
Another solution I use with some success is introducing a "low-level secondary party" of characters. They grew up nearby my party's "playground", admire the PCs as heroes and try to emulate them. Not only is this wonderful for my player's egos, it also gives them the opportunity to solve a few story threads for which the original party doesn't have enough time. Campaigns with multiple and multilayered stories are usually bound to "lose" some of these stories because the players have to chose which way to go. Having a "second row" of heroes can at least mitigate that.
...plus, it is an opportunity to get rid of magic stuff a level 10 warrior doesn't really need anymore!  Giving away a magic sword, even with a minor charm, is also a sure way to ensure the lasting loyality of a henchman.
When only a few of your players have time to roleplay, you can use this secondary party. Going on adventures with "the young blades", the players can even have fun with their old magic items once again! |
| crazedventurers |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 18:59:37
quote:
Originally posted by Slaygrim
Crazedventurers, thanks bro!
My pleasure - glad I could help
The players in the ongoing campaign may moan about the 'lack' of magic, but what they have they cherish because they have worked for it.
Don't get me wrong some of the long lived (in other words some characters they have been playing on and off for 20 years now, since the OGBS was first released), have lots of contacts they have developed and if desperate have the coin, favours and lesser magic to trade up quickly and little fuss is made of this, and they are good players and never expect the same treatment for their lower level/new characters they are currently playing on a regular basis.
So sometimes they can buy potent items, but only from a select few sources (The Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors (WOMP) in Waterdeep is the first port of call).
I have also 'auctioned' off magic items in Waterdeep and Ordulin where any character from my ongoing campaign can buy what they like if they can afford it (and outbid the various NPC's that also want said items). I use this as an adventure hook to meet new folks and hear new clack that might create other adventuring opportunities for them to partake in. This has happened twice in the last 20 years and the second time there was LOTS of interest with the low level adventuring companies clubbing together to out bid the 'leading lights'  , much fun and games ensued as ridiculous prices where bid for a girdle of hill giant strength and a fight broke out between various characters and NPC's in the middle of the WOMP auction hall with spells going off and wards sparkling and summoned monsters running amok - ahhhhh great memories
Cheers
Damian |
| Slaygrim |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 17:20:00
Crazedventurers, thanks bro! |
| crazedventurers |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 11:51:52
quote:
Originally posted by Slaygrim
Yeah, I think the stores will be stocked with tiny little things such as bags of holding, potions, scrolls, etc but no magical weapons or armor beyond +1.
As far as hiring a wizard, I think instead of charging the PCs the DM's Guide Market Price x 2 for enchanting, I'll charge the money but also demand a quest or service that will be given upon completion of the quest.
Seems very sensible to me. My take is that their has always been 'hedge wizards' making potions and 'minor' trinkets to sell (once a day spell brooches/rings that do blur/bless/fog cloud lasting 10 rounds or so etc similar to Quaals Feather Tokens) to fund their further researches into magic and certainly in larger more propserous cities guilds/cabals and individuals that for the right price will make something more substantial. However, the cost of the 'more substantial' would not only involve payment of money/magic but potentially a service as well i.e party approaches Jhondryn 'Longeyes' war wizard and spell warden of Evenvale (the lands of the Starwater gorge that extend north of the Stonecliff into the Stonelands).
You want a sword of giant slaying? excellent well pop into the Thunderpeaks and slay Grangog the Brute and any of his servitor giants and bring back all the hearts and brains you can as well as 3 quarts of blood and all the toe nail clippings you can muster (etc etc etc). Oh and you will need to buy some specially prepared containers to preserve them in, so pop down the road to Maglor the Alchemist and see if he has any Turmish blueglass for sale, if not, then ask him to order it for you and make sure he knows what you need it for so he can order the correct size, telling him I will pay for it. Then come back and see me and we can discuss how you are going to pay for the blueglass....
(adventurers dutifully return, hopefully shocked at the price of the blueglass) hmmmm the trolls are back in the Cavern of the Claws, perhaps you wouldn't mind resolving that little issue first? I will consider your debt paid for the glass if you slay them all however, take these vials and get as much warm troll blood as you can and get the brains of at least one of them in this (much larger and bulkier glass bottle) first, before burning the bodies to ash as we don't want them coming back now do we? Well, why are ye are still here? get gone and do some bloody bladework!! We will discuss the fee for the Giant Slayer Blade once you have killed the trolls......
So that way you get two adventures out of the party wanting to buy a single blade, as well as inserting some specific magic lore that the wizards and priests will hopefully pick up on  and of course the PC's not only have to get to where they are going without breaking the glass, but also back again and they know they must protect the glass containers at all costs, which makes 'random' encounters very interesting.......
Hope this helps
Damian |
| AlorinDawn |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 20:27:36
I think some shops might sell magic items, but to exist to only sell magic items is kinda far fetched to me.
You can only make as many items as your XP allows, so I would suggest that most item crafters would make a few items here and there as the need arises for themselves or friends, and when the cash flow is low, might make a few items known to sell well (potions, scrolls, and minor items), or an item to order and go back to doing whatever it is they do.
Casting spells for hire seems a far better way to make coin than selling crafted magic. For example, if someone wanted a suit of +4 armor or a weapon that had all kinds of neat magic gadgetry on it I would think finding am artificer who had nothing better to do with their time would be difficult at best. Finding someone to locate & steal such an item would likely be easier.
That's my 2 coppers. |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 19:23:14
I am not for magic shops at all. Even a seller of real potions should only be available if there is something the DM feels they really will need. There could of course be an item found at a market or sold to the players be a mysterious stranger approaching their table, but this would in my campaign be a plot-hook of sorts with the characters as suspicious or curious as they should be in a situation like this. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 19:15:51
quote:
Originally posted by Slaygrim
What is your feeling on having "Magical Item Stores"?
They're a nonsense. Remember that the place in Leiber's 'The Bazaar of the Bizarre' is a joke based on incongruity. It's as incongruous in the Realms as it is in Lankhmar.quote:
The players I game with like to ask (while in Waterdeep for instance) if they can stop by a store like the Xoblob Shop and see if there are magical items for sale. Would you allow this?
Only if the characters had heard of the place, which is unlikely. It's a secret to discover and build plot threads around, not a well-known magic item source.quote:
If so what kind of items would you say the store has?
Plot hooks along the lines of Ed's "Treasures rare and wondrous" in Dragon #80, and whatever catches your fancy.quote:
In addition, what about hiring a wizard to enchant your items? How difficult should this be, or should this even be an option?
An option, yes, but it should be more difficult than finding magic the traditional way, unless you want to motivate your players to go shopping for commodities rather than adventuring, and focus on customizing their characters' arsenals over who they are and what they do. For instance, such an artificer wouldn't have all the needed components to hand: the PCs would have to find some of them. |
| Matthus |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 17:26:48
In my experience the players are always greedy and insatiable. This is very understandable, as anybody would like to see his or her character becoming more powerful, stronger, better … This is part of the game and part of the fantasy. Still, I quitted giving a lot of magic items to my players when I had to justify a + 4 leather armor. The player thought that his ranger would have been able to carry studded leather - and wanted to persuade me of the need of better armor. That the item had (even before the talk) an acid resistance and a bonus to attack and still this wasn’t enough – I think it could have been endless.
You might be interested to give them a slim chance that some useful items are available at the store. But as I’ trying to explain to my players – why would any mage produce items without explicit order – what might be available is what other adventures sold – normally things they thought abdicable. If they like to buy this “wastage”…
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| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 15:34:38
I'll allow very minor items to be sold, potions, scrolls, one shot "spell gems" (or something like that).
If you want anything better than that you're going to need;
A bunch of gold.
A friendly wizard (or priest).
The material components for the item in question (yay! 3-5 sessions before you can gather everything *g*)
This allows me to limit what items are available, gives a whole ton of roll playing material and provides fodder for a few games (at least).
And I love the look on my poor players faces. Especially when it's one of them that's the friendly wizard. "What do you mean I need dried beholder eyes???" :D |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 11:05:15
In my games it depends on the place the PCs are at. In a case of a metropolis or a heavy-on-magic city or a palce with a Red-Wizards-enclave I limit the available magical items to a base price of 2000 gp or lower by roling d% - 70% and lower and the items is for sale. That already is very generous IMO but furthers the game play and the character motivation (at least in my game where I am very restrictive with magic items to loot). For any items of up to 5000 gp base price I make the check more difficult. 15% or lower and the PC is lucky. Any items above 5000 gp are never for sale anywhere. BTW, the availability of any items depends on the season as well, in winter the chance to find items is even lower, that is items of 2000 gp require a 30% check and others a 5% check.
This basically leads to the situation that only minor magic items and weapns of (only) +1 are for sale. If the PCs want to have better gear they have to go adventuring or create them themselves. Worked for me pretty well. |
| dirtywick |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 00:41:07
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I would only have the odd, occasional item in a store, and it wouldn't be anything overly powerful. Magic item shops are more of a video game concept.
I agree, for a lot of reasons I won't really get in to.
Anyway, as a more video game focused...I guess you could call me a DM...here's what I do:
When designing a store, the first thing I take into account is what type of city it is (and from there what kind of store it is since I have to actually make each store, however probably not strictly necessary in PnP) as to what kind of items will be available and at what cost. A small village isn't going to have a huge selection, and what's available will probably be simple weapons with a few martial weapons, and few made of metal. Probably someone in the city will have some ranger/druidish potions, scrolls, and wands, and if there's a wizard some scrolls and wands on the arcane side of the coin. They'll also be considerably more expensive (~150%) than market value due to the rarity and obscurity of the village.
Likewise, if they're in a major dwarven city, I'd broaden the selection and include more martial weapons, but less non-dwarf feeling stuff like leather armor and daggers in exchange for breast plates and battle axes, you see what I'm saying. Whatever's good for the area, and the % expense will be a little lower in a major city than an out of the way place (but greater than 100 always)
Once I know what type and selection I'm going to put in there, then it's actually choosing the items. What I typically do is get an average value for the items in a random treasure table for the approximate level of the PC by grabbing a few random items and doing some math, and anything more expensive won't be in the stores. So even if you're handing out a lot of gold and treasure that's getting sold, the extra profit isn't going to get them anything absurdly powerful for their levels and they're paying through the nose.
Then I start putting the stores together by picking the items and putting them in.
It works in games, couldn't tell you how it would work in PnP. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 23:30:03
quote:
Originally posted by Slaygrim
I like them because it makes things a lot easier. The PC's can actually carry the gold they find in a dragons lair, or something like that.
I could always downgrade the bag and have a pouch of holding or something, with a 100 lbs limit.
The flipside is that it makes things easier for the PCs, too. Extra weapons, extra potions, extra scrolls, all sorts of weather-related stuff, dead bodies (yup, a character of mine temporarily stored the corpse of a fallen NPC in one!)... It's your call, but extra-dimensional spaces can be readily abused. When the characters can carry around a moving van without having to worry about space or weight, some will take very great advantage of it. |
| Slaygrim |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 22:58:55
I like them because it makes things a lot easier. The PC's can actually carry the gold they find in a dragons lair, or something like that.
I could always downgrade the bag and have a pouch of holding or something, with a 100 lbs limit. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 22:49:30
I think even a bag of holding would be too much -- simply because of how much stuff can be crammed into one. |
| LordArcana |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 22:24:50
Agreed. Try giving your cities a gp limit of items they can outright purchase. From there double the limit to things they can find with a [Gather Information DC 20] check. This allows for good roleplaying if a rogue has contatcts in a city. |
| Slaygrim |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 21:47:46
Yeah, I think the stores will be stocked with tiny little things such as bags of holding, potions, scrolls, etc but no magical weapons or armor beyond +1.
As far as hiring a wizard, I think instead of charging the PCs the DM's Guide Market Price x 2 for enchanting, I'll charge the money but also demand a quest or service that will be given upon completion of the quest. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 21:33:38
Magic stores, likely would have no more then thrird level, potions or misc items no matter the level of a party, in my view.
Hiring a Wizard (or other spell caster) to enchant clearly is posible, often the part of py is a magic item or quest plus wealth. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 21:30:10
I would only have the odd, occasional item in a store, and it wouldn't be anything overly powerful. Magic item shops are more of a video game concept. |
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