| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Charles Rampant |
Posted - 05 Nov 2015 : 12:23:15
Hey all,
So the current edition of D&D is built around low magic - not many magic items get dropped by the DMG (even on high level hoards, you can easily get none or only a couple of potions), and you can't buy them. Now, from what I know, FR has generally been a high-magic setting, with various societies explicitly defended by magical/magically empowered forces more than raw troop numbers. (I'm thinking of the 3e guide's description of Silverymoon's mages, etc). With this in mind, would you allow magic item buying in your FR games?
The price list that could be used - since the DMG is mostly silent on the issue - is this one: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8XAiXpOfz9cMWt1RTBicmpmUDg/. It seems relatively easy to use, even if it refuses to price up many of the more gonzo items.
I ask partially because I am currently running PotA, and one of my players is a Berserker Barbarian; that class struggles with Exhaustion, and one of the few ways to handle it for him might be to buy Potions of Vitality. Expensive, but an option.
Thanks for your thoughts! |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 23 Nov 2015 : 16:05:18
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
What the Realms doesn't do well is actually figuring out how magic can play havoc with the economy, when some enterprising wizard can become a salt or metallurgy kingpin, or can flood the market with magical items.
I always thought that the destruction of an in-game economy was always related to the unusual pricing of chickens. 
Chicken stealing is definitely a good activity for bandits and low level PCs.
SQWAAAAAAAK
|
| JohnLynch |
Posted - 22 Nov 2015 : 04:02:37
There is very little edition specific information in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical when it comes to the rules for creating magical items. They can easily be used in any newer edition, with the only potential issue being a lack of permanency spell (or a permanency spell that doesn't discourage casters from creating magical items). Once you tweak/create permanency the rules are good to be used from that point forward. |
| Faraer |
Posted - 21 Nov 2015 : 16:02:49
Insofar as the magic items in 3E books are based on wealth-by-level guidelines, they're simple rules artefacts, products of the distorting lens of imposing temporary game conventions on the underlying setting lore -- which in this case is clearly set out in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical. Sometimes rules reflect settings relatively transparently, but in this case 3E supposed far easier magic-item crafting than exists in the Realms.
Let's also remember, once more, that Fritz Leiber's 'Bazaar of the Bizarre' is an absurdist satire of consumerism. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 21 Nov 2015 : 03:21:16
quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
In my (non-D&D/non-Realms but darkly magical in the sense of medieval history + a dash of epic fantasy) campaign one of the PCs has been wielding a sword for the better part of five game years (ten real life years!) and he still doesn't know what makes it special (beyond the steel being red) :D
In my ever-expanding notes I've written a few triggers that would allow the PC to discover the secrets of the blade, but so far no luck hehe.
I'd recommend he reads through the Red Steel books then. That is a pretty well documented item type :P |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 20 Nov 2015 : 19:04:09
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Is there actually an ingame reason why Magic items are less common in the realms in 5ed? Did the Weave collpsing during the Spellplague nulify alot of Magic items?
Was there ever an in game reason why magic items were more common in 3rd edition? Were the Thayan Enclaves new in the 1370s (rather than a retcon)? If there was an in game reason, then the Spellplague would certainly be a good excuse (I can't find any reference to Thayan Enclaves in the FRCG).
FRA essentially updated the Realms to 2E, it described the changes to the lands and peoples (and game rules) after the Time of Troubles. Red Wizards were apparently unstoppably powerful in 1E era, and apparently much less powerful in 2E - the in-setting explanation being that they once had collective access to a "powerful artifact" destroyed during the ToT. The rules of magic changed - some magic continued to work, some magic worked differently, some no longer worked at all - the loss of an unspecified "powerful artifact" provided plausible setting continuity.
Another Mystran interregnum was catalyzed by Netheril's Fall. No goddess no magic, new goddess new magic, a period of crazed magic disruption, old magic then reformatted to the new rules. (Although I feel the disposition of "inert" quasi-magical items and artifacts was never properly resolved, which created some unanswered questions after the return of Shade.)
My interest in D&D began to wane before 4E was introduced, and the SpellPlague killed it entirely. I confess that I probably won't even give 5E a fair chance. New rules of magic seem to be more about new books to sell, not about new events in the Realms, and there's really only so many times the same Mystra-died-again plot device can be recycled before it becomes a dull footnote in Realmslore. |
| Caladan Brood |
Posted - 20 Nov 2015 : 18:05:29
In my (non-D&D/non-Realms but darkly magical in the sense of medieval history + a dash of epic fantasy) campaign one of the PCs has been wielding a sword for the better part of five game years (ten real life years!) and he still doesn't know what makes it special (beyond the steel being red) :D
In my ever-expanding notes I've written a few triggers that would allow the PC to discover the secrets of the blade, but so far no luck hehe.
|
| Diffan |
Posted - 20 Nov 2015 : 14:45:44
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I prefer ed's explanation that the realms is high fantasy not high magic, so magic items are not ten a penny, but when you get them they are awesome.
Of course after 30000 years of magical history you can probably find a magic item of some kind in every ruin (most are probably magic light sources though) but it's guarded by all kinds of nasties and every item is unique with a name and history.
True, I'm partial to magical items being interesting and fun and not just ye ol' boring +1 Battleaxe. I also don't see magical items as things "normal" people have any great access to. Your "common" +1 Battleaxe is still $2,310 gold pieces, a staggering amount if you're a common person. The thing is, 95% of Realms stories, adventures, and movers aren't anywhere near common. The vast majority of magical items are often in the hands of people who are part of an Organization (Zhents, Eldreth Veluuthra, Harpers, Knights of Myth Drannor, or a soldier for a church) or have had grand adventures that have greater access to magical items than your farmer, farrier, blacksmith, innkeeper from the Friendly Arms Inn or Phlan or some other smaller town.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 Nov 2015 : 14:35:01
I prefer ed's explanation that the realms is high fantasy not high magic, so magic items are not ten a penny, but when you get them they are awesome.
Of course after 30000 years of magical history you can probably find a magic item of some kind in every ruin (most are probably magic light sources though) but it's guarded by all kinds of nasties and every item is unique with a name and history. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 20 Nov 2015 : 14:24:32
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Realms can't be flooded with magic items.
Sure they can. Pick up pretty much ANY 3e Realms supplement, especially the adventures, and you'll find many, many, many, MANY NPCs and Monsters that are leaden with magical items and trinkets. From potions to scrolls to loads of rings of protection +1 and +1 longswords that I feel they're fairly common in a setting where there's practically two or more +5 level Wizards in any given town, hamlet, or city. In all actuality, it'd be stretching my suspension of disbelief if there WEREN'T that many magical items compared to the amount of spellcasters...
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Not if you use the item crafting magic that the "real" Realms uses - refer to Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.
Sorry but there's no such thing as "real". We have the mechanics that the designers publish as "official" to go by. Ergo, the Realms MUST be filled with magical treasures.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The magic crafting concepts enshrined in the 3E rules are abominable.
-- George Krashos
Meh, a bit melodramatic for my tastes. I wouldn't say abominable. I feel they were just convoluted in terms of the Maths and what could/couldn't be crafted (which was pretty much anything you can think of) that should have been toned down. Many spells shouldn't have been put into wands (Knock, Find Traps for example) that alleviate whole class concepts or crafting things like Quicken True Strike that was abused early on. But DM's quickly learned what to allow and not allow within the confines of the rules.
There's also VERY easy alternative: Don't use the Wealth-by-Level system OR use it as a simple tool OR use it as a guide that tells you when to give out bonuses. There was a site, can't remember which, that basically gave you a table of when a Character should get a bonus to Attacks, Damage, Saves, etc. that was in concert with the WBL table. By using this a DM was no longer bound to add in random "+" items to keep up with intensifying monster CRs and instead focus more on consumable items and items with better properties and materials. Of course it's all homebrewed but it was definitely better for certain campaigns than having to put X-amount of magical gear just so the PCs don't all die from CR-equivalent encounters. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 Nov 2015 : 13:43:01
I wouldn't go as far to call them abominable, having a system to craft magic items isn't a bad idea, it just needs a bit of work, but it's a solid basis. When I finally finish my AARGS: Fantasy rules it will have a system where you can add individual abilities with their own number of uses etc and the costs will be such that even a plus 1 item will be a treasured heirloom.
More attention should have been paid to the economy of the game in 3e. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 20 Nov 2015 : 13:37:10
The Realms can't be flooded with magic items. Not if you use the item crafting magic that the "real" Realms uses - refer to Volo's Guide to All Things Magical. The magic crafting concepts enshrined in the 3E rules are abominable.
-- George Krashos |
| moonbeast |
Posted - 20 Nov 2015 : 13:10:47
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
What the Realms doesn't do well is actually figuring out how magic can play havoc with the economy, when some enterprising wizard can become a salt or metallurgy kingpin, or can flood the market with magical items.
I always thought that the destruction of an in-game economy was always related to the unusual pricing of chickens. |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 17 Nov 2015 : 18:37:57
Thanks.
Two cursed items came up this year in my online Birthright game. Both were scrolls.
One was a scroll of sex change. Inconvenient for the PC, as he was soon to be married! But the curse was lifted/reversed afterward. Sadly, the player didn't get to RP the change much, because he had to drop out due to real life super busyness.
The other was a teleport trap scroll, a deliberate trick by a powerful enemy.
|
| Diffan |
Posted - 17 Nov 2015 : 15:38:33
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
Magic item shops make sense given how awash with magic items and spellcasters published FR quickly became.
But would I actually use them in play? Nope, not really, with rare exceptions.
And some of those exceptions would involve tricks and curses. I'd give the literary inspirations, but I wish to avoid spoilers.
An item might show up in the hands of a dealer in antiques and curios.
I'm kind of curious why stipulations like tricks and curses are needed? Even from a setting perspective the vast majority of magical items we've seen have little of either. Is it a sort of "gotcha" thing a DM roes? What purpose does it serve?
Tricks and curses can be loads of fun in play, sure. They do not need to be deadly to be effective. Indeed, many of the really fun ones don't kill characters.
You see fewer curses and tricks in the published 3E/4E stuff because the overall trend was oriented towards powering up the PCs and toning down on misfortunes and mishaps. More lenient failed saving throw effects, fewer cursed items, healing surges (in 4E),and generally a greater emphasis on 'make the right choices and win your reward.' I am not saying that this playstyle is badwrongfun. I just prefer a more old school approach.
Fair enough. The way I read your earlier statement was that cursed/afflicted items came up on a more regular basis than non-cursed ones. Sorry for my misunderstanding.
As for published adventures in 4e, I do agree that cursed items and things of that sort were in short supply. The edition certainly had many of them in supplements, but in the adventures...not so much.
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
As far as why someone might sell a cursed item:
To get rid of it. Many cursed items cannot simply be abandoned. But depending on the nature of the curse, they might be claimed by another to free the owner. (This device shows up in literature, as you are probably aware)
The seller does not realize the item is cursed. "It's a magic sword. See how it shines!"
The seller is a cultist of Beshaba. Indeed, I imagine that making sure cursed items get into the hands of do-gooders, rival villains, and other fools is a major activity of Beshaban cultists.
Want to buy some magic beans? We take dairy cows.
The item is useful, but has nasty or unexpected side effects. Artifacts are normally like this, but even lesser items may carry such effects. Who says magic needs to always be convenient and easy?
Maybe that magic sword does indeed help the wielder in combat, but also drives him berserk at inopportune moments?
etc.
Those are some great ideas. I agree there is definitely a place for such things in a campaign, I guess the it more or less depends on its frequency. |
| KanzenAU |
Posted - 17 Nov 2015 : 06:22:30
Coming off the back of 4e, my players and I had a bit of magic item exhaustion. Players demanding items that their builds required and so forth got old, so the low-magic item policy of 5e was very welcome. Everything just feels that much more special and unique.
I did struggle a bit to reconcile that idea with the high-magic Realms, though. I came up with the excuse that Mystra's death in 1385 had sundered the Weave in a way to make the old ways of creating magic items impossible. This continued up until her rebirth in 1479, whereupon the Weave was recreated, but differently - the old methods still don't work, but it is possible to make magic items again using new methods, yet undiscovered. However, that was only ten years ago, and wizards are only slowly learning the ropes. Of course, you still have a lot of magic items created before 1385 around, but they're way rarer and even more expensive than before.
I have powerful wizard groups such as the Red Wizards, the Watchful Order, and the Arcane Brotherhood slowly uncovering the secrets of Mystra's "new" Weave, and so far they've learnt to create +1 weapons and +1 wands of the war mage, available for sale in major cities only at a high cost. That and some potions are all that's around for purchase (and the odd pre-1385 item), with the extra high price due to the far more intensive process of creation these days (ie. in 5e). The Red Wizards of course are still undercutting everyone else - in fact the Red Wizards always seem to be at the forefront of magic item creation, a fact which has led to many cities re-allowing Thayan embassies within their walls. Everyone wants the latest stuff the Red Wizards are making, and is willing to forget that they're ruled by an undead megalomaniac.
Just a personal take. |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 17 Nov 2015 : 00:53:03
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
3e was so beloved that Pathfinder became a thing. 3e sparked off character optimization and character development in ways that the previous editions couldn't hope to duplicate, with the sheer wealth and breadth of character options practically guaranteeing that a character could be anything they wanted.
Magic items didn't really change that in any way. What the Realms doesn't do well is actually figuring out how magic can play havoc with the economy, when some enterprising wizard can become a salt or metallurgy kingpin, or can flood the market with magical items. Dragon magazine once did an issue with 3e D&D analogues to laptops and PDAs; can you not imagine some bored wizard becoming Bill Gates with magic?
I would prefer to play GURPS if I were really hankering for that much optimization and crunchy mechanical stuff. It's built for it.
That said, I have certainly played and run 3E and had a blast. It is not my favorite edition, but I like pretty much all D&D and am not an " edition warrior."
My long term Ravenloft game on Fraternity of Shadows was run with 3.5/OGL rules.
I hope the edition related tangent to which I have contributed hasn't derailed things too much. It is relevant to how magical items are handled in the game.
In AD&D, as was pointed out by another guy up thread, items are harder to make. Or rather, one has to reach higher level in order to create them. In 3E the effective requisite levels are lower. And it is true that the 3E CR system assumes wealth by level.
It sounds as if the 5E approach is more like pre D20 editions of the game.
Note on item creation in earlier editions:
I think Holmes may allow magic users to make scrolls from low levels, but you should check that with a guy who has played Holmes Basic. I'd love to give it a spin, but I have never even seen a copy.
|
| LordofBones |
Posted - 17 Nov 2015 : 00:36:01
3e was so beloved that Pathfinder became a thing. 3e sparked off character optimization and character development in ways that the previous editions couldn't hope to duplicate, with the sheer wealth and breadth of character options practically guaranteeing that a character could be anything they wanted.
Magic items didn't really change that in any way. What the Realms doesn't do well is actually figuring out how magic can play havoc with the economy, when some enterprising wizard can become a salt or metallurgy kingpin, or can flood the market with magical items. Dragon magazine once did an issue with 3e D&D analogues to laptops and PDAs; can you not imagine some bored wizard becoming Bill Gates with magic? |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 23:00:26
TANGENT ALERT
The OGL-enabled D20 'splosion saw tubs of third party books released. Some of those were crud. Some were brilliant. Some were cruddy but brilliant.
I don't know if it brought in all that many new players or not. That's perhaps hard to measure.
I am not convinced it increased the variety of fantasy stuff all that much. There was plenty of non-European stuff out there all along. It just wasn't all the same rules system. The Nineties saw a lot of different systems on the market. And indeed, many systems are available out there now, including free ones.
But OGL has helped online gaming, I think. The hypertext is convenient.
And OGL has been used to make retroclones. I'm cool with those as long as nobody is trying to cash in on the hard work of TSR designers while presenting old games as new. But who does that? None of the OSR guys I know about. They are all huge TSR fans.
|
| Brylock |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 21:57:48
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
I'd never allow players to buy magical items. However, I also wouldn't be a stingy DM and make them SUPER rare either.
I dunno. In my past DMing, I didn't mind selling or providing occasional access to disposable (e.g. limited use) magic items such as potions and scrolls.
But selling magical hardware such as magic swords and magic staves? Nah. I'm just as stingy as you. D&D campaigns tend to end prematurely if you spoil and Monty-Haul the PCs way too early with an abundance of magic loot.
Indeed, I do this too.
With potions you don't even need to be a Wizard or anything, you can just go to an herbalist or alchemist or apothecary who has the right ingredients and they'll brew you up some potions with them, though the effectiveness of the potion depends on the ingredients and skill of the individual in question of course. |
| Brylock |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 21:54:46
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The OGL was also a huge boon to gaming; Wizards told the world, "Here's our ruleset, make your own settings and material, just make sure people know they gotta buy our books!" That freed up a lot of 3rd party designers to go straight to making their own settings or supplementary content for D&D, and helped expand the base of D&D players by attracting folks thru things other than the standard, quasi-medieval Europe set up.
Ironically the OGL and d20 System also probably caused 3.5e and 4e to not do as well as they financially could and were also almost certainly the primary cause of the huge slump the gaming industry fell into in the mid/late 00's with the massive glut of poor-quality d20 products everywhere.
I think the idea at Wizards was to allow everyone to use d20 and so everyone would need to buy a PHB, DMG, and MM for their games in settings Wizards didn't have to publish, not realizing that most groups would only really need to buy one of each and wouldn't need to buy new ones just because they bought a new knockoff setting book.
I think someone needed to explain to them that you can't really sell gaming books like MtG booster card packs and keep people regularly buying them like that. |
| moonbeast |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 21:47:28
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
I'd never allow players to buy magical items. However, I also wouldn't be a stingy DM and make them SUPER rare either.
I dunno. In my past DMing, I didn't mind selling or providing occasional access to disposable (e.g. limited use) magic items such as potions and scrolls.
But selling magical hardware such as magic swords and magic staves? Nah. I'm just as stingy as you. D&D campaigns tend to end prematurely if you spoil and Monty-Haul the PCs way too early with an abundance of magic loot. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 20:40:53
The OGL was also a huge boon to gaming; Wizards told the world, "Here's our ruleset, make your own settings and material, just make sure people know they gotta buy our books!" That freed up a lot of 3rd party designers to go straight to making their own settings or supplementary content for D&D, and helped expand the base of D&D players by attracting folks thru things other than the standard, quasi-medieval Europe set up.
As for magical items... The very first issue of Dragon Magazine that I bought was 163. That issue has an article on magical item quirks -- little quirks likes a scroll that glows, or items not functioning in certain particular environs (outside, more than 100 feet underground, underwater, etc) or other odd things like an item that buries itself in the owner's pack or that levitates when not restrained. Something like that could be a fun twist on any item.
Another thought that I once had: perhaps stuff sold at Red Wal-Marts isn't standard -- maybe the magical items can serve as a focus for scrying by Red Wizards, or they have a command word only known to the Reds that makes them inert, or there is some other sort of unknown booby trap that the Reds can use at any time to put the adventurers in a bad spot. |
| Brylock |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 19:00:46
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
quote:
Originally posted by Brylock
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Brylock
Magic wasn't magical anymore, it was just a bunch of random numbers you constantly tried to get higher like a guy buying as many Magic the Gathering booster packs as possible so you could get the "winning" character build, and stupidly the way AC, HP, and monster stats and abilities worked meant that this was how you HAD to play to be an effective non-caster if you wanted to use the core products. All sense of treasuring magic items we had in the prior edition gradually faded, and it wasn't until one finally embarrassing game of 3e that I won't even elaborate on here we realized just how little any of us actually cared about the actual PLAYING of the game anymore, just how we could "win" D&D.
This is exactly right. Its what I've thought about all the game systems since 2nd Ed. To me they seem to be a hack and slash game generator, not an in depth roleplaying system.
It helped to not play fantasy games, though it's a suggestion some might not like.
D&D is a huge influence on almost all but the very oldest, and 3e was easily the most popular D&D edition by sheer sales and product volume, so it's gonna have left it's mark.
Other genres or settings often used entirely different roleplaying systems simply because the D&D style of mechanics didn't really work for them at all.
I am not sure that 3E was quite that huge. Do we have sales figures? I would have thought that AD&D (first edition) likely outsold it.
And core 3E (3.0, that is) would be the likely number two seller.A big influence, as you say.
Third Edition was HUGE.
Before 3e D&D was a niche thing, something you generally had to go out of your way to go and find players for a lot of the time. WotC advertised the CRAP out of 3e, and they did so using their single most successful product; Magic the Gathering.
So by sheer volume you're seeing a lot more people get into D&D around 3e because Wizards spammed "by the way, have you played our awesome new roleplaying game that's fun and easy to learn" ads in every box or booster pack they sold as well as what would be considered at the time a very heavy digital advertising effort.
Here's some rough estimations;
https://www.acaeum.com/library/printrun.html |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 14:44:44
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
Magic item shops make sense given how awash with magic items and spellcasters published FR quickly became.
But would I actually use them in play? Nope, not really, with rare exceptions.
And some of those exceptions would involve tricks and curses. I'd give the literary inspirations, but I wish to avoid spoilers.
An item might show up in the hands of a dealer in antiques and curios.
I'm kind of curious why stipulations like tricks and curses are needed? Even from a setting perspective the vast majority of magical items we've seen have little of either. Is it a sort of "gotcha" thing a DM roes? What purpose does it serve?
Tricks and curses can be loads of fun in play, sure. They do not need to be deadly to be effective. Indeed, many of the really fun ones don't kill characters.
You see fewer curses and tricks in the published 3E/4E stuff because the overall trend was oriented towards powering up the PCs and toning down on misfortunes and mishaps. More lenient failed saving throw effects, fewer cursed items, healing surges (in 4E),and generally a greater emphasis on 'make the right choices and win your reward.' I am not saying that this playstyle is badwrongfun. I just prefer a more old school approach.
As far as why someone might sell a cursed item:
To get rid of it. Many cursed items cannot simply be abandoned. But depending on the nature of the curse, they might be claimed by another to free the owner. (This device shows up in literature, as you are probably aware)
The seller does not realize the item is cursed. "It's a magic sword. See how it shines!"
The seller is a cultist of Beshaba. Indeed, I imagine that making sure cursed items get into the hands of do-gooders, rival villains, and other fools is a major activity of Beshaban cultists.
Want to buy some magic beans? We take dairy cows.
The item is useful, but has nasty or unexpected side effects. Artifacts are normally like this, but even lesser items may carry such effects. Who says magic needs to always be convenient and easy?
Maybe that magic sword does indeed help the wielder in combat, but also drives him berserk at inopportune moments?
etc.
|
| Diffan |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 13:37:21
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
Magic item shops make sense given how awash with magic items and spellcasters published FR quickly became.
But would I actually use them in play? Nope, not really, with rare exceptions.
And some of those exceptions would involve tricks and curses. I'd give the literary inspirations, but I wish to avoid spoilers.
An item might show up in the hands of a dealer in antiques and curios.
I'm kind of curious why stipulations like tricks and curses are needed? Even from a setting perspective the vast majority of magical items we've seen have little of either. Is it a sort of "gotcha" thing a DM roes? What purpose does it serve? |
| combatmedic |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 12:49:27
quote:
Originally posted by Brylock
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Brylock
Magic wasn't magical anymore, it was just a bunch of random numbers you constantly tried to get higher like a guy buying as many Magic the Gathering booster packs as possible so you could get the "winning" character build, and stupidly the way AC, HP, and monster stats and abilities worked meant that this was how you HAD to play to be an effective non-caster if you wanted to use the core products. All sense of treasuring magic items we had in the prior edition gradually faded, and it wasn't until one finally embarrassing game of 3e that I won't even elaborate on here we realized just how little any of us actually cared about the actual PLAYING of the game anymore, just how we could "win" D&D.
This is exactly right. Its what I've thought about all the game systems since 2nd Ed. To me they seem to be a hack and slash game generator, not an in depth roleplaying system.
It helped to not play fantasy games, though it's a suggestion some might not like.
D&D is a huge influence on almost all but the very oldest, and 3e was easily the most popular D&D edition by sheer sales and product volume, so it's gonna have left it's mark.
Other genres or settings often used entirely different roleplaying systems simply because the D&D style of mechanics didn't really work for them at all.
I am not sure that 3E was quite that huge. Do we have sales figures? I would have thought that AD&D (first edition) likely outsold it.
And core 3E (3.0, that is) would be the likely number two seller.A big influence, as you say.
|
| combatmedic |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 12:46:50
Magic item shops make sense given how awash with magic items and spellcasters published FR quickly became.
But would I actually use them in play? Nope, not really, with rare exceptions.
And some of those exceptions would involve tricks and curses. I'd give the literary inspirations, but I wish to avoid spoilers.
An item might show up in the hands of a dealer in antiques and curios.
|
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 09:11:59
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I don't see the correlation between more magical items and any apparent lack of role-playing.
Hear, hear. You can have great roleplaying with a ton of magic items, and you can have great roleplaying with no magic items.
If/when players fail their saves vs munchkinism, they can (in my opinion) play a game where they can indulge that for a while, like an MMO. Eventually it always gets boring, and it's good if it's some Other game or setting they get bored of, rather than the Realms.
Worst idea: force a low-magic game on a player who is in munchkin mode.
Anyway, just tossin in my coppers. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 07:32:50
I will say that magic-marts have been apart of my Realms games for over 15 years and I doubt that will change anytime soon. I do, however, base what sort of magical items on the size of the city or town its in. So a place knee Waterdeep will have nearly most items available but a town or homlet will have mostly potions and maybe a +1 weapon |
| Diffan |
Posted - 16 Nov 2015 : 07:27:40
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Brylock
Magic wasn't magical anymore, it was just a bunch of random numbers you constantly tried to get higher like a guy buying as many Magic the Gathering booster packs as possible so you could get the "winning" character build, and stupidly the way AC, HP, and monster stats and abilities worked meant that this was how you HAD to play to be an effective non-caster if you wanted to use the core products. All sense of treasuring magic items we had in the prior edition gradually faded, and it wasn't until one finally embarrassing game of 3e that I won't even elaborate on here we realized just how little any of us actually cared about the actual PLAYING of the game anymore, just how we could "win" D&D.
This is exactly right. Its what I've thought about all the game systems since 2nd Ed. To me they seem to be a hack and slash game generator, not an in depth roleplaying system.
I don't see the correlation between more magical items and any apparent lack of role-playing. |
|
|
