| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 07:40:00
Im looking for ideas and inspiration for Netheril. Things like organisations, plot hooks, history etc to help make the place come alive |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Baltas |
Posted - 15 May 2015 : 08:23:43
Very interesting thing you found dazzlerdal, this may really be the case. Although Ed said, that in his home Realms, Lurue is the deity of Magic. Although she may be more a primordial connected to it, or personifying it. Lurue is revered by the elves as Yathaghera, the Winged Queen, so no elf might have tried what Avrauntra did, as they would find having ones conciousness merged with the Weave, and in a way taking over it, as very heretical.
Although some sages theorized that Lurue personifies raw magic, and Mystryl/Mystra the Weave. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 14 May 2015 : 09:45:00
Just had a weird thought about Netheril and Mystryl and the Weave and Avrauntra.
So in Elminster's Forgotten Realms, Ed details a female magic user who he says is the first and greatest Netherese Arcanist of Netheril. It then details how she trained other arcanists creating the foundation for Netheril's magocracy. That certainly makes her the most influential, but not necessarily the greatest.
Then it states that ultimately she merged with the weave becoming a weave ghost, increasing the strength and extent of the weave. Again that does not necessarily make her the greatest, it just makes her the most long lived and probably the first non elf to do such a thing.
Now thinking about the history of the realms, the Weave came into being in order to prevent lesser creatures from being burned alive by the raw magic that saturated Abeir Toril.
The legends state that Mystryl was created by the war between Shar and Selune and thus the weave and the goddess were born at the same time, but what if that isnt true.
There is little to no indication that Mystryl existed outside of Netheril. There have been other gods of magic (racial pantheons for instance) but there was no overarching pantheon that dominated the majority of the planet until the modern age and probably half way through that, so is it likely that there existed a god who looked after the weave of the whole planet and yet was only worshipped by a single nation.
So alternative thought is this. The Weave was indeed created eons ago, possibly by the Baetith (the Nether Scrolls are the anchor of the weave holding it all together). I'm thinking that Abeir-Toril was saturated with magic, but this did not affect primordials. Over time the magic gets used up (flashy displays, huge magical workings etc), which deplete it enough to allow the creator races to exist, and the Baetith create the weave/Nether Scrolls and boom an explosion of lesser lifeforms occurs.
The goddess of the weave didnt come into existence until Avrauntra merged herself with it. Her personality became the foundation for a spark of intelligence in the weave that would ultimately coalesce into Mystrl, the first goddess of the Weave. (yes other creatures might have merged with the weave before, namely elves, but they are not as rash or as reckless, and probably merged themselves in a different manner, kind of like elves adding on different modules but Avrauntra merging with the whole operating system).
So there have been plenty of deities of magic over the years, one for each of the various pantheons, but none of them had control over the weave. Only following Avrauntra's merger did a god of the weave come into existence.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 23 Sep 2014 : 08:41:24
Well i'm glad you like the idea.
I am going to write up articles piece meal style for my fan mag.
So one article will have important places, another will have a brief overview of Seventon, another will have a descriptive history, another will have a timeline.
Once im finished though i think i might release a special edition of the fan mag and write it all up in a sourcebook style.
As with everything i do for the alternate dimensions project, it will be recognisable as Netheril, but it will be somewhat different. Mostly it started out as me fixing the timeline because the creation of settlements and the ordering of events was all over the place and disjointed (they managed to spread out awfully quickly from a geographical point of view before settling the lands inbetween).
All the major events are still in there. THe Nether Scrolls, Ioulaum, Karsus, etc, its just a little bit different.
If anyone is at all interested i could do with someone to read through what i put together to make sure it hangs well from a thematic, continuity, and lore point of view. As a bonus you get a sneak peak of the information before its released. |
| neuronphaser |
Posted - 23 Sep 2014 : 00:38:03
I have nothing useful to add at the moment, but want to say that this is great material to work with. I'm planning to run a campaign in Netheril for my 4e game because it kinda works as a default "magic-rich" world/rule-set, so I've looked at Netheril through that lens (adding Dragonborn and some other 4e-isms). What I found helpful was using Lost Empires of Faerun as the basis, and just adding a few locations/people from the Netheril box set, rather than the other way around. Of course, I'm also basing one of the Enclaves (not sure which one yet) on Eberron's city of Sharn, but otherwise doing as you did and limiting most other Enclaves to being small communities or even singular keeps under the control of a single powerful Arcanist and maybe a few of his/her apprentices.
Anyway, just wanted to say that I like this! |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 21 Sep 2014 : 08:25:33
Sounds sensible, and is somewhere along the lines of what I was thinking.
By the time of thauglor and my proposed Netheril dragon overlord though they are probably approaching the 20th generation of overlord and the shrines and empires have been torn down so often that they dont even bother building them anymore.
So what you are left with is a dragon claiming territory over a large area and if gathering tithes from vassal dragons (if he allows them).
Perhaps the territories of modern dragons could be used to figure out the locations of old dragon empires and perhaps like in cormyr the elves and then humans even kept the boundaries when forming their nations.
Slightly off topic but I think a large dragon claiming territory over the entire basin is not unusual. His death then sparks the sudden appearance of wyrms looking to claim his lair, horde, and lands. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 21 Sep 2014 : 03:41:28
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think it depends all upon the personality of the dragon.
Going by a few modern examples we have Iyrauroth who is a hoarder. His reason for hoarding is unusual (he wants to collect magic to power a ritual), but he is definitely a hoarder. He has a number of servants (half dragons and full dragons) but he has no grand structure to live in, instead he inhabits vast tunnel complexes beneath Thar.
Then we have Tchazzar, an empire builder, again his reason for empire building is unusual in that it is to attain or maintain godhood. He has a nation of human servants and they do build him grand structures (although his main lair is unknown).
More ancient is Thauglor the purple dragon of Cormyr. I'm not sure of his personality or the nation of his domain but from the few snippets it sounds like he was a dragon supremacist (i.e. he only wanted dragons living in Cormyr) and there is no evidence of any dragon ruins in Cormyr so any structure he built was probably in the Stormhorn mountains (although he may just have had a very large mountain lair).
I think the first dragon overlords were all empire builders, probably emulating the creator races and the giants that came before them. When the dracorage ended many of them other dragons took over who in turn lost to others until it was essentially a free for all of smaller kingdoms ruled by any dragon big enough to hold the land for a time.
As the elves and then humans arrived on the scene the dragon domains became smaller and smaller.
The Netheril basin is probably the exception in that there were no inhabitants organised enough to challenge a dragon (until Netheril). There is no evidence of any draconic ruins so I'm going to assume his lair was the grandest structure in his empire. Perhaps it was located in the Channel Mountains, its isolated, difficult for anyone but a dragon to get to, and the Netherese have a major fight with giants in that area and probably wake the dragon up.
Bear in mind with modern examples that they may be overlords, but its flimsy... not like those of old where they didn't have much in the way of competition. The dragons of old probably saw themselves much like the ancient Pharaohs, etc.... and would have wanted shrines to their greatness built. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 20 Sep 2014 : 23:27:48
I might suggest a different tack for your write-up of Netheril.
Instead of starting with the Netheril boxed set, go back and look at the picture painted of Netheril before the Netheril boxed set. Things like clearly the Narrow Sea was supposed to run where the Frozen Sea is located if you look at FR13 - Anauroch, etc. Look at Ed's Wyrms articles, when they refer to Netheril, etc. Focus on mantles and scepters, not goofy names, floating enclaves, and history that's not integrated into the setting.
I think you'll be happier with the result.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think it depends all upon the personality of the dragon.
Going by a few modern examples we have Iyrauroth who is a hoarder. His reason for hoarding is unusual (he wants to collect magic to power a ritual), but he is definitely a hoarder. He has a number of servants (half dragons and full dragons) but he has no grand structure to live in, instead he inhabits vast tunnel complexes beneath Thar.
Then we have Tchazzar, an empire builder, again his reason for empire building is unusual in that it is to attain or maintain godhood. He has a nation of human servants and they do build him grand structures (although his main lair is unknown).
More ancient is Thauglor the purple dragon of Cormyr. I'm not sure of his personality or the nation of his domain but from the few snippets it sounds like he was a dragon supremacist (i.e. he only wanted dragons living in Cormyr) and there is no evidence of any dragon ruins in Cormyr so any structure he built was probably in the Stormhorn mountains (although he may just have had a very large mountain lair).
I think the first dragon overlords were all empire builders, probably emulating the creator races and the giants that came before them. When the dracorage ended many of them other dragons took over who in turn lost to others until it was essentially a free for all of smaller kingdoms ruled by any dragon big enough to hold the land for a time.
As the elves and then humans arrived on the scene the dragon domains became smaller and smaller.
The Netheril basin is probably the exception in that there were no inhabitants organised enough to challenge a dragon (until Netheril). There is no evidence of any draconic ruins so I'm going to assume his lair was the grandest structure in his empire. Perhaps it was located in the Channel Mountains, its isolated, difficult for anyone but a dragon to get to, and the Netherese have a major fight with giants in that area and probably wake the dragon up.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 20 Sep 2014 : 09:00:49
I think it depends all upon the personality of the dragon.
Going by a few modern examples we have Iyrauroth who is a hoarder. His reason for hoarding is unusual (he wants to collect magic to power a ritual), but he is definitely a hoarder. He has a number of servants (half dragons and full dragons) but he has no grand structure to live in, instead he inhabits vast tunnel complexes beneath Thar.
Then we have Tchazzar, an empire builder, again his reason for empire building is unusual in that it is to attain or maintain godhood. He has a nation of human servants and they do build him grand structures (although his main lair is unknown).
More ancient is Thauglor the purple dragon of Cormyr. I'm not sure of his personality or the nation of his domain but from the few snippets it sounds like he was a dragon supremacist (i.e. he only wanted dragons living in Cormyr) and there is no evidence of any dragon ruins in Cormyr so any structure he built was probably in the Stormhorn mountains (although he may just have had a very large mountain lair).
I think the first dragon overlords were all empire builders, probably emulating the creator races and the giants that came before them. When the dracorage ended many of them other dragons took over who in turn lost to others until it was essentially a free for all of smaller kingdoms ruled by any dragon big enough to hold the land for a time.
As the elves and then humans arrived on the scene the dragon domains became smaller and smaller.
The Netheril basin is probably the exception in that there were no inhabitants organised enough to challenge a dragon (until Netheril). There is no evidence of any draconic ruins so I'm going to assume his lair was the grandest structure in his empire. Perhaps it was located in the Channel Mountains, its isolated, difficult for anyone but a dragon to get to, and the Netherese have a major fight with giants in that area and probably wake the dragon up.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 Sep 2014 : 23:11:09
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Im wondering about the Netheril Basin being home to a Dragon Overlord at some point in the past.
Sarrukh died, then the tearfall happened, then dragons appeared, warred with the giants and then nothing. Jhothun appears to have existed in the far northern reaches of the basin (The High Ice). But following the fall of Isstessofifil nothing appears to have lived in the basin until the Rengarth arrive (probably of Icehunter stock).
Of course a Dragon Overlord tends not to build many structures and just lives in his cave hoarding wealth and possibly having draconic vassals come and pay him homage every now and then. Some are active and recruit lesser races and experiment on them and build actual empires, but others are just content to be the biggest and baddest thing living in whatever territory they can grab.
The Netheril sourcebook makes numerous references to dragons in the history Gembright, Embercoat, Lightningdance, Brightstrike. The adventure for Netheril details 2 really old gold dragons. All these dragons appear to be very old and they all suddenly start becoming active from -2000 DR onwards (during the Golden Age when Netheril was full of enclaves) particularly after -1000 DR.
So perhaps the dragon overlord had been in charge there for quite some time (after all something must have kept Thauglor the purple dragon in Cormyr - the elves kept him out of Cormanthor, what kept him out of the Netheril Basin). Old dragons sleep for hundreds maybe even thousands of years.
Then we have the Morueme clan of Blue dragons (and there were mentions of at least 5 blue dragons in the Netheril sourcebook).
The legendary dragon Morueme was said to have ruled over the Silver Marches during the time of dragons. I presume the elves finished him off and drove his clan out of the north towards the Nether Mountains and the Netheril Basin. Maybe when Netheril killed the Dragon Overlord it was the Morueme clan that eventually claimed the spoils of the basin.
Gonna disagree here a small bit. Draconic overlords won't just live in a cave. They'll have their human vassals build them a beautiful structure to live in. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 19 Sep 2014 : 16:33:00
Im wondering about the Netheril Basin being home to a Dragon Overlord at some point in the past.
Sarrukh died, then the tearfall happened, then dragons appeared, warred with the giants and then nothing. Jhothun appears to have existed in the far northern reaches of the basin (The High Ice). But following the fall of Isstessofifil nothing appears to have lived in the basin until the Rengarth arrive (probably of Icehunter stock).
Of course a Dragon Overlord tends not to build many structures and just lives in his cave hoarding wealth and possibly having draconic vassals come and pay him homage every now and then. Some are active and recruit lesser races and experiment on them and build actual empires, but others are just content to be the biggest and baddest thing living in whatever territory they can grab.
The Netheril sourcebook makes numerous references to dragons in the history Gembright, Embercoat, Lightningdance, Brightstrike. The adventure for Netheril details 2 really old gold dragons. All these dragons appear to be very old and they all suddenly start becoming active from -2000 DR onwards (during the Golden Age when Netheril was full of enclaves) particularly after -1000 DR.
So perhaps the dragon overlord had been in charge there for quite some time (after all something must have kept Thauglor the purple dragon in Cormyr - the elves kept him out of Cormanthor, what kept him out of the Netheril Basin). Old dragons sleep for hundreds maybe even thousands of years.
Then we have the Morueme clan of Blue dragons (and there were mentions of at least 5 blue dragons in the Netheril sourcebook).
The legendary dragon Morueme was said to have ruled over the Silver Marches during the time of dragons. I presume the elves finished him off and drove his clan out of the north towards the Nether Mountains and the Netheril Basin. Maybe when Netheril killed the Dragon Overlord it was the Morueme clan that eventually claimed the spoils of the basin.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 19 Sep 2014 : 08:43:33
Well i havent come up with any names like Conch or Monikar, but i can't seem to find a theme with Netherese names to allow me to systemise generating new ones.
Plus i am not getting a sense of what is crud or not with the names - probably because i made them up (i quite liked Rdiuz and Meigg, but thats because they were in GHoTR and not in the Netheril boxed set which im naturally biased against).
All i know is that i dislike almost all the names in the Netheril sourcebook, except for Vandal Station and Harbourage as they are more descriptive of their function than a name.
I changed Delia to Delianis.
Zenith to Xentith
I have an enclave named Tecanaton (but i think it sounds crud and a bit too Old Empires which i have been working on a lot lately and probably encountered a bit of mental overlap.
Earsome to Almerisomme
The Marsh of Simplicity to Ssessimplissiti Marsh
Algid to Allesgild
Canlespiere stayed the same as its not total crud
A new enclave of Ashtarith, later renamed to Amundar's Tor and over time corrupted to Maunator
Monikar to Ssemuonikaress'k
Conch to Connoselchar (sounds a bit crud, might change it)
Imbruar to Ilmesbruald
Vandal Station remains as Vandal stations after the Vandaldt tribe of Rengarth barbarians.
Rdiuz i kept along with Meigg, Runlatha and Rasilith/Kismet
The other named enclaves are still there although may not get much info because this writeup is actually about the nation of Seventon and the enclaves are not really a part of that nation
Thankfully since im starting again with Netheril and its for my alternate i dont have to provide justification for the name changes (the original Netheril sourcebook was too bad to save so i'm pretty much rewriting it), although i couldnt resist coming up with an origin for Amaunator and his name
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 19 Sep 2014 : 07:01:12
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I am however open to suggestions if you have alternatives. I may have mentioned before but i suck at names.
 You and slade have a bunch in common then!
The simple rule is if it sounds like crud, change it and justify the change.
-- George Krashos |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 18 Sep 2014 : 14:15:10
Anybody know where Azirrhat came from.
It lies just below what i believe to be Shadowtop Mountain in the Netheril sourcebook but there is nothing below it in the sourcebook, just the Desertsmouth Mountains.
Now given Azirrhat's shape and other information about it i have a clue as to what it might be, i was just checking whether we have anything official or for any alternate theories. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 18 Sep 2014 : 11:56:05
Well Barze created the kingdom of Barze so i figured Rdiuz created Rdiuz.
It was either Rdiuz or Meigg (the fortress he created).
I am however open to suggestions if you have alternatives. I may have mentioned before but i suck at names. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 18 Sep 2014 : 11:48:59
Rdiuz is a really terrible name.
-- George Krashos |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 18 Sep 2014 : 11:43:13
Well i had a sneaky glance at some of the 5E products in local book stores.
Man they are generic, find 3 objects in one adventure, find 4 elemental keys in the red wizard adventure, find 5 dragon masks in Tiamat.
However i did notice some more stuff about elemental links in Netheril in the red wizard adventure, some noble family called Amagur or Amagul or Ama something who worshipped elemental lords and were given these elemental keys (for no particular reason - i hate generic fantasy).
But it got me thinking. The Age of Discovery is all about Netheril's expansion into other places not on Faerun (mostly because they kept getting their backsides handed to them), so during this period you probably got a lot of Archwizards and Arcanists that made pacts with extraplanar creatures for more power.
I would imagine that Rdiuz seizing towns in the Outlands which sparked the Seven Sigils War (I hope people like my alternate justification for it being called that) was probably because the Archwizard (who i called Rdiuz) was manipulated into conquering a few Gate Towns in the Outlands for his extraplanar allies (i bet yugoloths or baatezu would be very interested in those places).
Unfortunately Rdiuz bit off more than he could chew and the whole of Netheril got involved. They still couldnt win and got other extraplanar beings involved. A mini war raged in that area for a century as the extraplanar armies fought one another until the Netherese turned up and banished them all (Karsus having just recently discovered heavy magic which he used to great effect in the Far Forest).
Anyway thats my take on the Seven Sigils War. It cause Netheril to lose a large part of its armed forces which weakens it even more and means they cant deal with the emerging threats effectively. I would imagine that a byproduct of this event is that collaboration with extraplanar creatures is now actively discouraged in Netheril driving it underground.
However you could then use the Seven Sigils War to provide justification for that House Ama-whatsit) to be given the elemental keys to hide them (knowing someone or something nasty was after them) in return for the aid the elementals provided during the war. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 11 Sep 2014 : 13:33:34
Having more musings on Netheril.
I'm noting a few instances of exploration of the outer planes and summoning of planar creature by the Netherese.
Meigg and the Cats Gate is the most famous event wherein the Netherese tried to conquer an outer planar realm in the Beastlands I believe. They underestimated their enemy and had to resort to summoning creatures from the elemental planes in order to combat them.
Of course Maram of the Great Spear is one of the powerful elemental creatures summoned presumable from the elemental planes.
Then we have that fire/earth primordial creature supposedly imprisoned beneath Gauntlgrym that (according to George Krashos' lore, which I love) a Netherese arcanist (or maybe a student of one) helped tap into his power for whatever reason.
I'd never really considered having any other forces have a guiding hand in the formation of Netheril (other than the Terraseer), but during the Golden Age and Age of Discovery there were attempts to expand into other planes (the far realms I believe was another one - something to do with the Kaorti's I think), so perhaps that whole period of expansion was under the guiding influences of outer planar beings of various kinds (the Netherese after all could create gates and portals that would allow them free entry into the prime material plane).
I wonder if there is any information regarding elemental or demonic cults arising in Netheril. I wonder if the Netherese weren't manipulated into opening the Cat's Gate under false pretenses which then got out of hand and a bunch of powerful elemental lords were summoned to Toril exactly as they had planned. The Netherese managed to banish all but one of these escaping elemental lords.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 08 Sep 2014 : 20:02:53
Well the handy thing about doing an alternate version of something is I can do things that weren't in the original, so im putting in a few consequences to their magical hubris so that the moment of them bringing about their own downfall was inevitable, everything was building up to that moment.
And as to the extent of a mythallar. The size of a city can be very large indeed, certainly the mountain of Hark's Finger is supposed to be the remnants of Jiksidur and that was meant to be a mountain top enclave like the others so it must have been huge to be mistaken for a mountain itself (unless it crashed on another mountain).
I also got the idea for the mythallars having an effect on the environment from the Netheril information already out there.
This quote about the Narrow Sea shows they used mythallars to affect large swathes of their environment (I don't know the source unfortunately).
quote:
Netheril put more and more mythallars along strategic point in hopes of curbing the freezing effects of the ice age.
Once Netheril fell, most of the mythallars ceased functioning, and the glaciers moved southward like soldiers. Its approach turned everything in its path into a frigid wastelandincluding the Narrow Sea. This large body of water froze over, finally transforming into a thick glacial sheet within 300 to 400 years.
Using mythallars to control the weather and temperature looks to have been common in northern Netheril, it was used in Vandal Station and Runlatha.
Lathery used a mythallar to teleport fish in the Narrow Sea beneath the enclave.
So if a mythallar encompassed a city sized radius that could still mean it affected a 10 mile radius circle (although im no geographer).
Pop a bunch them around the northern borders of the Narrow Sea and it no longer freezes over in winter. Pop another 10 in the sea itself and turn it into a food factory.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Sep 2014 : 17:12:51
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
So anyone have any ideas for side effects of excessive magic use.
I have used the mythallars to increase the breeding rates of fish in the narrow sea. This results in a number of dragons plaguing the basin to feed on the fish.
Of course the innate spellcasting ability of Netherese is one side effect. Im talking about those citizens on the enclaves that have lived for generations within the radius of multiple overlapping mythallars which results in people being born with the ability to cast simple cantrips without the need for study (kind of like what is happening in ravens bluff in 1370 with the annasherion).
So anyone have any other ideas.
I want to get across that the fall of Netheril was inevitable and was all their own fault. So I have enemies from outside and within rallying against the Netherese because of their actions, but I also want pressures brought about by their excesses that are more a response of the natural world (so too much food attracts dragons, etc).
Given the limited reach of mythallars (they did not go much further than the edges of the city), and the fact that most of them were on flying cities, I would expect their environmental impact to be negligible. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 08 Sep 2014 : 16:44:43
I don't think it was inevitable. I think Karsus' Avatar was a 'perfect storm' of arrogant overreaching. I think had he cast the spell, trying to steal pretty much any other god's portfolio, that the results would have not led to such disaster. I also think that had he a better understanding of the weave - like say, the Srinshee - and had cast the spell to steal Mystril's power it would have had better results. Karsus was the epitome of the Netherese way of using magic, which pretty much ignored the weave and instead just grabbed at the power. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 08 Sep 2014 : 12:32:02
So anyone have any ideas for side effects of excessive magic use.
I have used the mythallars to increase the breeding rates of fish in the narrow sea. This results in a number of dragons plaguing the basin to feed on the fish.
Of course the innate spellcasting ability of Netherese is one side effect. Im talking about those citizens on the enclaves that have lived for generations within the radius of multiple overlapping mythallars which results in people being born with the ability to cast simple cantrips without the need for study (kind of like what is happening in ravens bluff in 1370 with the annasherion).
So anyone have any other ideas.
I want to get across that the fall of Netheril was inevitable and was all their own fault. So I have enemies from outside and within rallying against the Netherese because of their actions, but I also want pressures brought about by their excesses that are more a response of the natural world (so too much food attracts dragons, etc). |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 21:14:30
Well I was only going to loosely imply that taboo and only the once.
As for Jhothun. The Perilous Gateways series for Portals of the Frozen Wastes says the following.
quote:
Long before the rise of the first elf kingdoms of Faerūn, Jhothūn stood as the capital of a small but mighty empire
This indicates it existed during a time anywhere between the time of Ostoria and the first crown wars. Which works if it was a subkingdom of Ostoria that came into being in its own right when Ostoria was broken up by the dragons.
quote:
Though the empire is long fallen -- sundered by rebellion among the provincial governors and rent by white dragons that made long war on the giants
So a long time ago (could be anywhere from hundreds to thousands of years ago), it was broken up by rebellious regional governors (the rulers of the city) and then finally destroyed by white dragons.
quote:
It fell to an army led by Netherese arcanists, and the army utterly annihilated every trace of its structures -- not even ashes remained.
The above quote refers to the city of Chosein in the High Ice. It indicates that the city at least was in existence during Netheril's time.
So I went with the following events. The giants of Jhothun go to war with Netheril (Strategor Malick dies). The Netherese beat back the giants to the High Ice, locate the city their and burn it out of existence. Then the remaining regions of Jhothun declare independence (a common event among vassals when your ruler's army is destroyed) and they fight among themselves. The dragons of Hoarfaern finally destroy the city of Jhothun itself sometime before the war with Dareth.
Of course there may be other interpretations of the quotes, and it may be that the empire of Jhothun dissolved and reformed several times over the millennia between -25000 DR and -339 DR. But im going with an empire of Jhothun fights with Netheril and loses. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 20:32:40
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
And does anyone think incest is taking the excesses of archwizards a bit too far?
It depends on how far you take it. Making it a societal norm would be going too far, in my opinion. Having a handful of supremely arrogant wizards who think such concerns are for lessers? Yeah, I can see it in that scenario.
You can also view it in the "Game of Thrones" context. Certain ruling families might go that direction based on a concern for preserving the bloodline and for avoiding entanglements with other noble families.
In other words, arrogant Netherese archwizards can probably rationalize any behavior. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 19:17:17
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
And does anyone think incest is taking the excesses of archwizards a bit too far?
It depends on how far you take it. Making it a societal norm would be going too far, in my opinion. Having a handful of supremely arrogant wizards who think such concerns are for lessers? Yeah, I can see it in that scenario. |
| xaeyruudh |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 18:35:40
I thought Jhothun was gone long before Netheril... where do you see them connected?
Edit: also I'm pretty sure we know from the Netheril box that at least some of the enclaves moved around... at least things like north in the summer and south in the winter, and others moved as unpredictably as possible to spy on or avoid rivals. So they can be pretty much wherever you want to put them on a particular date. |
| ericlboyd |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 18:04:11
Are you building off something in Giantcraft?
--Eric
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well i did a bit more brainstorming and a bit more research and got lucky and found a reference to Netheril and an empire of Jhothun.
So now i know where the giants that killed Malick came from. I have a reason for their invasion. And the invasion has a number of consequences that results in Netheril's decline.
The loss of the weapons of Aryvandaar being the most decisive consequence.
And i moved Thultanthar from Lake Heip to Holloway so i can link Thaeravel to shadow magic and Holloway was built in what would become the Farsea Marshes which would have been part of Thaeravel and so the archaeology expedition was actually looking for bits on shadow magic.
And does anyone think incest is taking the excesses of archwizards a bit too far?
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| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 16:26:58
Well i did a bit more brainstorming and a bit more research and got lucky and found a reference to Netheril and an empire of Jhothun.
So now i know where the giants that killed Malick came from. I have a reason for their invasion. And the invasion has a number of consequences that results in Netheril's decline.
The loss of the weapons of Aryvandaar being the most decisive consequence.
And i moved Thultanthar from Lake Heip to Holloway so i can link Thaeravel to shadow magic and Holloway was built in what would become the Farsea Marshes which would have been part of Thaeravel and so the archaeology expedition was actually looking for bits on shadow magic.
And does anyone think incest is taking the excesses of archwizards a bit too far? |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 09:10:00
Okay so using Wooly's idea.
Monikar = Ssemuonikaress'k (it's deliberately meant to sound like a reptilian name)
Imbrue = Ilmesbruald
Conch = Connoselchar
I suppose can live with Vandal Station and Harbourage and a few of the other places being named after their function or population or other geographical feature. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 08:18:48
I have done away with the nonsense of the Netheril boxed set, so there is a definitive nation with expanding borders and of course nothing exists within the nation that is not part of it (with the exception of secret hidden settlements usually of the enemy).
So i need names for these settlements which are now all run by natives of Seventon (although the population can include Talfir from Thaeravel, Rengarth barbarians and the occasional demi-human like gnomes).
Unnamed settlement number 1 wouldnt really look good in a writeup of the history where those settlements have an effect on the rest of the empire. So for instance Harbourage is crucial to netherese expansion west across the Narrow Sea (and is also where they discover the gnomes). Harbourage is also one of the settlements most affected by magic drain as it gets frozen over each winter.
Monikar is not part of the nation but is the centre of a religion dedicated to the destruction of Netheril, and out of there operate a group of assassins that specialises in killing archwizards. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 01:38:07
I would assume that he was called "The Finder" not just finder. His other accomplishments never amounted to much so he is remembered by the description of his great accomplishment - finding the scrolls. |
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