| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 09:02:40
Hi All!!
Today I want to discuss, if a mining group uses a charmed umber hulk to dig out the mineral / rock out of the veins it follows, would this not speed up the whole mining process like crazy?
I mean the tunneling speed of an Umberhulk is like 50x or 100x faster than any normal digging....
They could, as a secondary use, be also diggin vast underground tunnel complexes if guided by a mage / priest within just a few days.
Looking forward to your opinions.
Best
Jakuta Khan |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| jazirian reborn |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 22:23:23
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
or just get the wizard to polymorph into an umber hulk rather than trying to charm/dominate one perhaps?
Cheers
Damian
Most of the native Elemental Earth plane folk like xorn ( who can retrieve and vomit up your loot) , pech mounted on stone flyers and others would also make great miners. Especially since most of these types dont actually need to dig at all.
Hard part is delivering something of value to them. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 01 Jul 2012 : 18:49:24
Well, yeah, but for anyone except Neogi it's a high-risk "improvement" - hulks are hard to domesticate, strong and have gaze attack.
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
or just get the wizard to polymorph into an umber hulk rather than trying to charm/dominate one perhaps?
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
I think umberhulk tunnels can or do end up collapsing behind them. I'd get a Pick of Earth Parting. Can carve out a 10x10x60 tunnel per round. This is from Tome of Magic 2E book however.
As well as Claws of the Umber Hulk spell.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Jul 2012 : 05:21:49
As for the SJ mentions - I do recall that conversation, Sage. The designers tried to get SJ references past editors as much as they could
Makes you wonder who was trying to sneak around who (because its pretty obvious that at least Rich Baker is a fan of SJ). Who was the one (or two) 'bad guys' that were adamaent about keeping it out?
Not that I care about SJ - one of my least favorite settings. It was too cartoony for my taste (and I have very low standards in that regard).
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I think kobolds are probably the best miners. Stone giants and dwarves are pretty good, too ... but you can whip and kick and punt the kobolds around to ensure maximum productivity, and there's always plenty more kobolds to be found. Don't worry about preventing cave-ins and such, they'll figure it out for themselves.
You ever play WoW?
Warcraft Kobolds are good miners. They also get really pissed when you steal their head-candles.  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Jun 2012 : 07:16:06
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I get that they didn't want to play up the spelljamming angle. I just think if they didn't want to play it up, they shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.
I think it was Brian James who told me -- over on the Wizards boards some years ago -- when a similar discussion came up, that this was largely due to some designers wanting to slip as much about spelljamming and spaceborn travelling as they could into the lore and getting past the editors... without directly referencing it as spelljamming.
If and when Brian sees this, I'm hoping he can either confirm or deny whether I'm recalling this conversation properly. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Jun 2012 : 05:50:21
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, since the original neogi were all spaceborn (unlike in that 3E book where they made groundling neogi, admitted they used flying ships, and then brushed that "minor" detail aside).
It's not really that it was brushed aside. As we know, spelljamming and sapceborn-travellers, weren't really a dynamic Wizards wanted to explore in late-3e products. So the emphasis on such options, was specifically toned-down in the core-lore.
Well, as I said then, it's a little odd to have a gaming supplement that says "these guys are usually in flying ships, but we're going to talk about the ones that aren't." If flying ships are mentioned in a fantasy source, it's usually something that is prominent, because few things will catch the imaginations of players like a flying ship. It doesn't have to be a tricked-out hammership; it could be your average not all that swift or maneuverable Halruaan skyship.
That's what bugs me: they mentioned this wondrous detail, and then brushed it aside. It's like saying, "Hey, I've got bikini pics of your absolute, all-time favorite female celebrity! But instead, I'm going to show you pics of my family vacation to the Biggest Ball of Twine in Minnesota."
I get that they didn't want to play up the spelljamming angle. I just think if they didn't want to play it up, they shouldn't have brought it up in the first place. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Jun 2012 : 01:47:41
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, since the original neogi were all spaceborn (unlike in that 3E book where they made groundling neogi, admitted they used flying ships, and then brushed that "minor" detail aside).
It's not really that it was brushed aside. As we know, spelljamming and sapceborn-travellers, weren't really a dynamic Wizards wanted to explore in late-3e products. So the emphasis on such options, was specifically toned-down in the core-lore. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 30 Jun 2012 : 00:43:12
I think kobolds are probably the best miners. Stone giants and dwarves are pretty good, too ... but you can whip and kick and punt the kobolds around to ensure maximum productivity, and there's always plenty more kobolds to be found. Don't worry about preventing cave-ins and such, they'll figure it out for themselves. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Jun 2012 : 00:37:29
Yeah, SoFS specifically states that they have trouble with Earth-like gravity (theres some stuck on an island there). I guess the 3e ones are a sub-race that have adapted to life planet-side. 
There is a base of them in the Tears of Selune - they were covered in Rich Baker's novel Corsair (sadly, they were portrayed very comical). They had some kind of deal with those Moonsea pirates.
And they had Umber Hulks with them (just to keep this relevant). They didn't do any mining with them though. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Jun 2012 : 22:52:16
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Neogi also use Umber Hulks - I wonder if there is a connection.
Well, since the original neogi were all spaceborn (unlike in that 3E book where they made groundling neogi, admitted they used flying ships, and then brushed that "minor" detail aside). Not much tunnelling to do in a deathspider or mindspider, and the neogi haven't shown much interest in mining -- only in slaves.
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Jun 2012 : 21:24:14
Neogi also use Umber Hulks - I wonder if there is a connection. |
| Jakuta Khan |
Posted - 29 Jun 2012 : 19:58:50
Hehe, good one Markustay.
I imagine the bis evil wizard, controlling the umberhulk in direction etc, and scores of kobolds, goblins etc just hurrying to get all the debris away, nice picture. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Jun 2012 : 03:24:37
What do they do with the dirt? 
(or other debris)
It stands to reason they are tunneling and pushing the 'waste' behind them, effectively sealing the tunnel behind them. Unless, of course, they are instructed to do otherwise, and have some place to dump it (which then slows them way down from just digging).
And if Umber Hulks can be used for mining, then how come illithids aren't rich? (or are they? They do seem able to purchase slaves whenever they are available). |
| BEAST |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 21:27:18
You might want to limit the umber hulks only to the initial tunneling to get to the ore lodes, but then bring in other races to shore up the tunnels and actually do the fine detail work. Let the hulks do "the heavy lifting", so to speak. These monsters generally don't make neat, tidy, little tunnels, nor do they concern themselves with the longterm viability thereof after they've passed through. And if you weren't careful, they would probably significantly damage the mineral veins, preventing you from being able to render larger cut jewels from them. Use them to get your finer miners in close, and then use your miners for the nitty-gritty.
MM (1E) - They burrow through stone/loam with their claws.
MM (3.5E) - They rampage continuously, leaving destruction in their wake. Often leave deadfalls and pits. Do not leave viable tunnels, unless they choose to. There are networks of such tunnels across the Underdark.
MM (4E) - They leave rough-hewn tunnels in their wake. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 17:58:35
Umber Hulks may tunnel at a fast rate, but what do they know of the engineering and technical skills required to keep the tunnel from collapsing after the fact? I would just hire some good ol' dwarves to do it. |
| Kyrel |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 17:49:23
Personally I'd say that an Umber Hulk will leave behing a tunnel, but whether or not it stays up, depend entirely on the local geographical situation. However, using a charmed Umber Hulk to slowly dig out a tunnel, and then having a bunch of miners following along to support the tunnel and keep it from collapsing, should be a real posibility.
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| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 17:15:05
I don't know off the top of my head if (in 3.5 D&D) an Umber Hulk's burrowing ability is like an elemental's earth glide ability or not, in that "its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other signs of its presence."
I would think for the sake of the DM wanting flavor and fun that mind-controlling an Umber Hulk for tunneling would be a good idea, but then lead to disaster such as digging into a beholder hive or maybe faerzress + charmed umber hulk brains creates a psychic resonance that echoes through the Underdark and attracts illithids.
If it’s a player’s idea to use Charm Monster or Shapechange, let them. Just be mindful that just because you can tunnel, it doesn’t follow it’s safe to tunnel everywhere. By this I mean cave-ins and tunnels collapsing. Just because you’re an umber hulk doesn’t mean you’re immune to tons of rock landing on your head.
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| crazedventurers |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 16:53:35
or just get the wizard to polymorph into an umber hulk rather than trying to charm/dominate one perhaps?
Cheers
Damian |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 09:55:43
I think umberhulk tunnels can or do end up collapsing behind them. I'd get a Pick of Earth Parting. Can carve out a 10x10x60 tunnel per round. This is from Tome of Magic 2E book however. |
