| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Kuje |
Posted - 07 Aug 2007 : 15:46:02
Earlier in the week I posted this in the Dungeon/Dragon close down thread but I decided to open a new topic for news about Gleemax.
As I said on the 4th of August: "The first one has me concerned because of the legal problems that this might cause so I'll give warning about anything that is republished from the Compendium, because we still publish it on the net and thus it is published. So, since Gleemax is going to change their ToS, I'm a bit concerned about material showing up over there because the ToS says anything published over there cannot be published elsewhere.
http://www.gleemax.com/articles/announcement010.html"
There's some new info about this.
From Randy Buelher: "A couple of points we have changed/clarified, largely based on the conversations on these boards:
1) The Official Game Info Pages will be covered by a different policy than the rest of the site. On those official pages, users give us a much more limited license that doesn't give us much of anything except the right to have that content posted on our site.
2) Our lawyers won't let us have that policy apply to the rest of the site because there's too much danger that we will independently invent a game, or a mechanic, or a card/feat that someone else posted to the site without us even noticing and then sue us. Our lawyers will, however, allow me to tell you that we have no intention to knowingly publish anyone else's content (not without contacting and compensating them anyway) ... it's just that we expect it to happen by accident fairly often so we're obliged to cover for that.
Note that anyone who doesn't trust us enough to post their original intellectual policy to their personal page can always jump through the hoops and get an official game info page ...
Randy"
http://69.8.198.225/showthread.php?t=901463
More quotes from Randy: "There's no one blanket answer to your question, but I think I can address it anyway. I know that the D&D guys are planning to use Gleemax to help them find new writing talent. They still intend to pay writers for magazine-style content and the easiest way to find those writers is going to be to browse the user-generated content portions of Gleemax and see who the audience is rating highest. That's also a good way to find the content itself.
There's no kind of automatic compensation guarantees built in because one thing that happens all the time is that multiple people will think up the same idea. I constantly see "new" Magic cards online that I know are already in our database. In the Great Designer Search there were several times when a designer submitted a card that was already in an upcoming set that we had signed off on but had not yet published.
So we're not promising any sort of compensation because we don't want to wind up in a position where someone is demanding compensation that isn't called for. However, we do believe in identifying and rewarding talented contributors and we'll definitely be watching the community to see who we might want to work with as contractors or even, hypothetically, as employees."
This bottom one has me going hmmmm.
And from Scott: "I don't see fansite policy changing. IMO they serve a valuable function for promoting a product like D&D. In the past other companies effort to shut down fansites have really backfired from a consumer goodwill and PR standpoint. That being said we need to look at each and make sure that our interests are being maintained (an example is to have more clearly defined fansite policy)."
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=896542 |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 14:24:30
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Although I feel much more sorry for his wife's family, I do take some pity for WotC, because I know this hit them out of left field.
I agree--the wife was the one who was murdered. The man we are talking about was the murderer. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 04:36:31
It really all depends upon how much the WotC guys like to micro-manage, and from what I have seen, no-one's been steering this ship for quite some time.
I can fully believe that one person in charge of a dept. could have snowballed the game and novels guys for months on end, considering how little they know about coding, they would have eaten up everything he was telling them.
I've had experience with this sort of thing - he probably kept telling them "it will be great... just you wait and see!" at every meeting, and then spent most of his time stalking. Since they trusted him fully to run his dept., the other parts of the company would have no clue how bad things really were.
Can one man completely drive a team or even a whole company into oblivion? For an example, I give you Daikatana - I'm still not sure to this day if John Romero actually managed to convince himself it was great, or he just got so tired of lying to everyone else he started to believe it himself.
I have nothing to base any of this on beyond pure conjecture, which is why I wanted to avoid speculation. Although I feel much more sorry for his wife's family, I do take some pity for WotC, because I know this hit them out of left field.
If they roll out the full DDi and Game Table and all the goodies as-promised over the next couple of months, then obviously I was wrong, and for once, I certainly hope I am. If not...  |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 19:41:06
MT: I'm no union worker, but I suspect unions believe someone with a work ethic couldn't enjoy management. 
I agree with all y'all that one person in a mental health crisis did not kill an entire product. If nothing happened on the team, upper management should have inklings. There's always someone who tattles, backstabs, or B&Ms before the team goes down in blaze of glory.  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 19:07:06
In answer to this -
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not saying this guy was one or the other, I'm just saying that regardless of his circumstances, things should have still been getting done.
I give you this again -
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The worst I can say at this point about WotC is that they make poor employee choices (and that they need to really crack-down and look at what each individual is REALLY producing).
While you are quite correct, and a team of good employees will continue to plod forward despite a boss's 'sub-par' performance, I have also seen situations wherein which the boss was a piece-of-crap, and everyone followed suit.
If you come back from lunch ten minutes late, and no-one yells at you, it is human nature to try for 20 the next time. Not everyone is like that, but it has been my experience that bad employees will try to get away with as much as they can (like plagerizing another companies code) if no-one is at the helm.
You are lucky to be part of a good team Wooly - I have had to work with both ends of the extreme.
And if you don't like working with people who don't want to actually do anything for their pay, avoid working for the union - I've been a member of two. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 18:43:16
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
While that is a possibility, the fact remains that he was one man on a team. Even if he wasn't at his best, his team should have still been productive.
And before someone says it, I have been part of a staff where we ignored our boss to get things done when they had to be done. More than once, I've had bosses who were obstacles to work, not facilitators.
I'm not saying this guy was one or the other, I'm just saying that regardless of his circumstances, things should have still been getting done.
I fully agree with this, because as I said above, WotC is a professional company that has a vested interest in putting out quality products. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 18:41:37
I never thought the DDI delays (which we kind of benefit from, as WotC's online content has stayed free longer than I expected) had anything to do with maliciousness on the part of WotC employees. As I mentioned before, I don't think it's rational to immediately assume that when we don't get what we want, it must be because of maliciousness.
That said, I still find it hard to believe that DDI was totally dependant on this one guy (that is, I don't agree with the people saying, "WotC, take as much time as you want!"). WotC is a professional company--they still have to get their products out in spite of setbacks (or just cancel them). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 18:39:46
While that is a possibility, the fact remains that he was one man on a team. Even if he wasn't at his best, his team should have still been productive.
And before someone says it, I have been part of a staff where we ignored our boss to get things done when they had to be done. More than once, I've had bosses who were obstacles to work, not facilitators.
I'm not saying this guy was one or the other, I'm just saying that regardless of his circumstances, things should have still been getting done. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 18:20:13
I said I didn't want to speculate, but here's my take -
I'm not saying the OUTCOME is what caused WotC's Gleemax/DDi problems - that was merely there conclusion (and a very sad one it is).
However, it is painfully obvious to me that this guy has been preoccupied for months, and was probably spending nearly all of his time tending 'personal matters', rather then getting the work done that he was being paid for (I've had a personal experience with working with someone demonstarting this sort of obssesive behaviour).
If he has just been "yesing" the higher-ups to death for the past half-year or so, they may have been completely blind-sided by the fact that nearly no progrees has been made on ANY of their digital initiatives.
I offer you the problems they had with the Gaming Table as proof - someone posted content from another company's version of a gaming table as WotC's. That tells me right there they they were trying to snowball the suits into thinking it was nearly complete, when I gather very little was actually done (otherwise, why would they need someone else's artwork?) WotC had to apologize and remove the plagerized content from their site as a result.
As it turns out, they have reached their deadline, and now don't have anything to show us for it, not because of any sort of duplicity on THEIR part, but rather because they trusted in an individual that turned out to be emotionally disturbed.
The worst I can say at this point about WotC is that they make poor employee choices (and that they need to really crack-down and look at what each individual is REALLY producing). |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 19:26:04
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I wonder if THIS had anything to do with their new focus?
Utterly bizzare, and I can do all sorts of speculating ATM, but it would be HIGHLY inappropriate.
Just sad.
That's a very sad story. The guy in question sounded like a crazy stalker but he must have been a very confused soul underneath. Although that still doesn't justify what he did.
As for the effect it has had on WotC's web strategy I don't know enough to comment. I should imagine that his restraining order meant he wasn't fully focussing on his job and had probably delegated some of this work. That is all speculation though and of no help to anyone. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 16:44:18
OK, that's pretty horrifying.
At the same time, I agree that it would be strange if the entire DDi project was riding all on this one person. |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 16:14:29
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
We in the US call them buzzwords too.
I'd be more inclined to call it infernal . |
| The Sage |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 14:28:34
I'm inclined to agree.
And, also, I'd imagine there was a support staff working with the project head. Could they not have simply carried on? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 14:20:56
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I wonder if THIS had anything to do with their new focus?
Utterly bizzare, and I can do all sorts of speculating ATM, but it would be HIGHLY inappropriate.
Just sad.
It is very sad... But that happened this week. The web issues have existed for a while, and I don't think a company would change something successful due to the loss of a project head. |
| Pandora |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 07:16:37
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Man that Gleemax crap was useless... perfect example of a big company hiring a marketing company to do something "cool", with no real aim or purpose behind the hiring...
I always saw it as the effect of the hobnobs of WoTC coming back from some strategy-seminar where terms like "web 2.0" and "user-generated content" was bandied about a lot but didn't quite know what they meant. (Okay, so they could probably figure out "user-generated..." My four-year old cousin can do that, and he won't be able to speak English for another four or five years.
Ahh ... the "art" of conversation (or in this case: "feeling important"): Talking without saying anything. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Aug 2008 : 20:53:20
I wonder if THIS had anything to do with their new focus?
Utterly bizzare, and I can do all sorts of speculating ATM, but it would be HIGHLY inappropriate.
Just sad. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 14:27:41
We in the US call them buzzwords too. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 09:19:18
We also call them buzzwords. Although actually what we really call it is bulls**t bingo. Which is a great game to play for tedious meetings and lectures. Every player takes a card and jots down ten buzzwords they expect to hear. The winner gets a drink bought for him or her. Of course, if the winner actually shouts "bingo" it's funnier and they get more drinks.
Anyway, to get back on topic after reading some of the latest press releases/blog entries from WoWfans of the Crust it's clear they speak like this all day. At the bottom of the pile are a bunch of people with no direction and no motivation as a result of realising how badly their dream has turned out to be. Incidentally, that reminds of Monte Cook's blog. That's a good read and a nice insight into behind the scenes. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 07:52:22
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I don't think these guys really speak English either. They probably use terms like "leverage" "core market expansion" "negative customer satisfaction" "brand" and other such Business Speak.
Business Speak is a bit like Orwell's NewSpeak full of acronyms, jargon and double-think. (A bit like my signature really.)
In Canada we often refer to your Business Speak as "Buzzwords." Buzzwords not only include your above examples, but more annoyingly, also include: play ball, let's touch base, power lunch, core value and marketing research (the latter example being an oxymoron). |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 07:03:47
I don't think these guys really speak English either. They probably use terms like "leverage" "core market expansion" "negative customer satisfaction" "brand" and other such Business Speak.
Business Speak is a bit like Orwell's NewSpeak full of acronyms, jargon and double-think. (A bit like my signature really.) |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 31 Jul 2008 : 05:09:31
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Man that Gleemax crap was useless... perfect example of a big company hiring a marketing company to do something "cool", with no real aim or purpose behind the hiring...
I always saw it as the effect of the hobnobs of WoTC coming back from some strategy-seminar where terms like "web 2.0" and "user-generated content" was bandied about a lot but didn't quite know what they meant. (Okay, so they could probably figure out "user-generated..." My four-year old cousin can do that, and he won't be able to speak English for another four or five years. |
| Kyrene |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 07:32:04
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Now, now Markus. Such glee in the face of others' misfortune is unbecoming.
Actually it is kinda funny!
I have to agree! 
Could we say his 'glee' is at 'max'?
Oh, and kudos Kiaransalyn. That blog was one of the funniest/scariest things I've read in a long time. The wit is indded mightier than the sword. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 00:56:25
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Now, now Markus. Such glee in the face of others' misfortune is unbecoming.
Actually it is kinda funny!
I have to agree! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 00:11:07
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Now, now Markus. Such glee in the face of others' misfortune is unbecoming.
Actually it is kinda funny! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 23:53:13
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And in the news... Gleemax is CANCELLED!!!
Now who didn't see this coming?
Bit off more then they can chew, much? 
Yes, considering the current state of their online endeavors, so far.
I'm not into Facebook/MySpace, and so was never that interested in Gleemax anyway. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 23:36:59
Man that Gleemax crap was useless... perfect example of a big company hiring a marketing company to do something "cool", with no real aim or purpose behind the hiring... |
| monknwildcat |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 21:19:16
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I also suggest an allowed account name change to NostraMarkus...
Word!!!  |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 21:15:50
I also suggest an allowed account name change to NostraMarkus... |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 21:15:07
Maybe it will get a better name if they decide to try it again after (lol, an "if" really on this also) they every get the online D&D stuff worked out. |
| Quale |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 20:12:32
I like that it's gone
I imagined Gleemax very Cthulhu like, with that awful skin
wasn't on WotC boards for a year, when I came back there was Gleemax and 4e/Spellplague announcements and everything went downhill afterwards
I also did ask (not so directly) what the designers are doing all day other than writing novels, but Rich didn't answer that one, he only mentioned his hopes for FR articles per month |
| EytanBernstein |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 18:42:46
Gleemax ate my brain. |
