| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Diffan |
Posted - 08 May 2013 : 02:46:51
Well, the title says it all. Here's the link:
Warner Bros. Aquires Rights to make D&D movie
I can only hope with every fiber in my being that it'll succeed. That it'll fall in the footsteps of great fantasy movies like Lord ot the Rings and the Hobbit. I only see problems because both of those are iconic and people already know the story. D&D, by itself, is a mish-mash of cultural and individual identity that doesn't really have a "CORE" plot (which was the original D&D movie main flaw amongst others).
We'll need to connect with these people in a personal way to have any success and the tropes played will need to be easy enough for people who don't play D&D to follow.
It's a large task but lets hope WB is up for the challenge. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Jun 2013 : 01:27:01
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Not that it really matters in relation to the point Markustay is making, but GAME OF THRONES is on HBO.
One issue you're going to have to contend with if you try to make Drizzt or any FR property into a TV series is just how expensive it's going to be. GAME OF THRONES is workable because there aren't all that many monsters and no flashy D&D-style magic. At that, if it weren't VERY popular, HBO would likely have pulled the plug on it by now as they previously did with ROME and as Showtime just did with THE BORGIAS.
There would have to be a LOT more T&A to attract HBO or Starz or Showtime. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 19:10:03
I was thinking maybe movies for "The Icewind Dale Trilogy" and "The Dark Elf Trilogy", and if they absolutely wanted to keep bleeding the storyling dry, a TV series for the remaining books. Maybe it would work out to one book mini-series per season of the show?
But frankly, I would rather end the story with Drizzt and the gang happy at Mithral Hall, per the end of The Halfling's Gem, and not milking it any further than that. Wrap it up with a neat little bow, even though the books, themselves, don't end succinctly like that.
I would want to see other Realms novels given the bigscreen treatment at that point. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 18:41:26
Not that it really matters in relation to the point Markustay is making, but GAME OF THRONES is on HBO.
One issue you're going to have to contend with if you try to make Drizzt or any FR property into a TV series is just how expensive it's going to be. GAME OF THRONES is workable because there aren't all that many monsters and no flashy D&D-style magic. At that, if it weren't VERY popular, HBO would likely have pulled the plug on it by now as they previously did with ROME and as Showtime just did with THE BORGIAS. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 15:29:30
Maybe, but it would have to be insanely good. Movies only need some explosions an CGI monsters to be popular these days, but TV series - bizarrely - have become more 'cerebral' (not talking about the plethora of 'reality shows' we have now - I am thinking more about the kind of programming AMC does).
Perhaps, when AMC is done with Game of Thrones, WotC should approach them regarding Drizzt? |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 11:57:12
A TV series would definitely be a better option for the Drizzt novels.
For an FR movie, I would use the Threat From the Sea trilogy. Fantasy films usually don't have such a focus on undersea things so it'd be fairly original. Also, you've got big battles for the CGI freaks, a menacing antagonist in the form of Iakhovas, a great protagonist in Jherek Wolf's-Get (dark history, newbie adventurer torn from his family, brave, honourable and with mysterious powers as well as gods constantly telling him that he has a big ol' destiny coming up), a powerful female character (which have become big with Game of Thrones) and love interest in the form of Sabyna, a comic relief character with the antics of the dwarf (I forgot his name). Not to mention the political rivalries and alliances with the Seros power groups, the sahuagin (who are represented particularly scarily by Mel Odom) and pirates! Everybody loves pirates.
However, the report says that script was written by the same guy who wrote the drek known as the Wrath of the Titans remake and the executive producer has never played the game so I don't hold my hopes too high. |
| carbos |
Posted - 12 Jun 2013 : 10:05:10
One thing that I could see being profitable would be making TV series out of Drizzt Books. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 23 May 2013 : 17:34:39
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Thanks again, THO!
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Everyone knows who Drizzt is... go with the branding that everyone is familiar with, with no past negativity attached. [bold added]
Ah, the irony of what you just wrote, right there!   
I can see that, but WE are looking at it as fans of The Realms, and as grognards on this site. Neraly everyone who plays WoW has heard of Drizzt, even if they've never read a RAS novel, or know what the hell 'The Realms' are.
Remember that trailer of the fake Drzzt movie? Something along those lines. You mention 'D&D', and you just slapped a whole can-of-negativity on it, before it even had a chance.
They need to move away from the D&D branding, and embrace The Forgotten Realms. Thats all I am saying. Pick something they know they own 100% and run with it. D&D has become something else... several somethings... and its no longer concrete enough to build your brand on.
I think Neverwinter was a great step in the right direction - thats precisely what I want to see. I have other.. reservations... about it, but not about their intentions. If they want to know why it will fail, they should download Game Developer Tycoon - a quirky little game (for only $10) that will teach them more about the video game industry then they ever wanted to know (and they will realize their mistake the same way I did while playing - marketing the wrong type of engine to the wrong audience).
However, their plan was good. They need to be a little bit better at picking employees (and development houses). I had more here, but after re-reading I decided it was in exceptionally bad taste (even for me). Don't change the plan - make better decisions within it. Stay the course, and 'think smart'.
Don't try to be D&D... prove you have moved beyond it. Thats how you grab 'the kiddies' these days. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 23 May 2013 : 17:00:24
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
This article details some of the reasons why the D&D movie rights are in contention and why Courtney Solomon may be able to fend off Hasbro's attempts to reclaim those rights.
http://www.examiner.com/article/why-courtney-solomon-will-retain-the-dungeons-dragons-movie-rights
Looking at this article, it seems as though they only have rights to the D&D name (and if Book of Vile Darkness is any clue all the fluff included in the core rules), but not Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, or any of the specific IPs. So I don't think we can expect it to be a movie from one of the non-Greyhawk (or generic) campaign settings. I wonder if that is a loophole WotC/Hasbro can exploit to make their own movie(s). |
| Xar Zarath |
Posted - 23 May 2013 : 06:37:35
They would have to get the script right and choose the right actors(Hells if i know who should play what) but if they decide to produce a movie,about say, Elminster or Drizzt, it would have to be very well marketed.
Even today most people think of DND as obese nerds living in their mom's basement...a lot of marketing is needed to change that preconception. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 23 May 2013 : 05:27:07
Here is a very interesting article
<http://web.archive.org/web/20110607011132/http://www.chud.com/6592/INTERVIEW-COURTNEY-SOLOMON-AN-AMERICAN-HAUNTING/>
on the history of the first D&D movie.
It talks about the personal connections that Solomon used/exploited to get the rights, as well as his ongoing struggles with TSR/WOTC during development.
To their credit, when WOTC first came on, they sensed the epic fail in the air and sued at that time, too, in order to try to kill the movie en utero. It didn't work, but at least they tried at their earliest possible opportunity.
Solomon also acknowledged that once the dust settled on that lawsuit, there wasn't much time left on his legal rights to the film. He had to cut his losses, and move forward with the resources on hand at that time, or else lose the rights.
I don't get it: why would the former TSR head's brother get Solomon in good with the company, and then the TSR head, herself, interfere with Solomon every step of the way from then on?
There are a LOT of film projects that wither on the vine, for lack of substantive progress during development/preproduction. And that's probably a very good thing, too. We don't need headstrong people pushing forward with any more D&D films until they actually have their ducks in a row (starting with a solid script!). Throwing whatever you have up at the wall to see what sticks, and then pointing the finger of blame at everybody who got in your way, does not count as having your ducks in a row. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 22 May 2013 : 17:32:24
Here is a link to where talk about the D&D movie begins. |
| Dark Wizard |
Posted - 22 May 2013 : 05:50:25
This article details some of the reasons why the D&D movie rights are in contention and why Courtney Solomon may be able to fend off Hasbro's attempts to reclaim those rights.
http://www.examiner.com/article/why-courtney-solomon-will-retain-the-dungeons-dragons-movie-rights
It helps to know the execs in the company and it helps that they didn't care enough about the rights to sign a terrible contract.
Also there's this video called Secrets of TSR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRqSQUL6734
Where TSR alumni talked about various things at a PaizoCon panel. Jeff Grubb mentions how the criteria for the movies were setup and the current D&D movies have never failed to meet those requirements, thus the rights remain out of reach of Hasbro.
How I see it, (though I'm not a lawyer) I think the only way Hasbro will get the rights back is to claim the original agreement was made in poor faith by persons either incompetent or with an agenda to disrupt the previous company/enrich themselves. If an agreement cannot be enforce, perhaps Hasbro has a recourse.
Or they could play hardball and use their existing trademarks to lock down all merchandising for any third party D&D movie. Make the movie unprofitable without supplemental revenue from cross-promotion deals and merchandise. As we know from other genre films like Star Wars, merchandising can pay several times more than the box office receipts. Of course Hasbro/WotC did allow the TSR trademark to lapse, and I believe the Mystara trademark as well at one time, though they might have renewed Mystara for the re-release of the arcade game.
Failing that, they could pay the current rights holders a large sum of money. Everything is for sale, just depends on how much the seller wants and how much you're willing to pay. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 06:06:27
Thanks again, THO!
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Everyone knows who Drizzt is... go with the branding that everyone is familiar with, with no past negativity attached. [bold added]
Ah, the irony of what you just wrote, right there! |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 00:19:51
If they were to make a D&D movie, as much as I love the realms, they really should do the Dragonlance Chronicles, because anyone that was big into D&D read and appreciated it. Unfortunately, they had someone start a dragonlance animated movie a few years ago, and it was never completed (it didn't completely suck, but it wasn't great). Its been about 5 years since then though. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 23:00:11
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Right, but all that aside, part of protecting one's IP is proving that you have continually protected it against 'unlicensed usage', and a big chunk of what the OGL did was throw a lot of their argument into a trash can. How can you say you are actively protecting something you gave most of away for free?
Ah, but they weren't giving it away. They were presenting the rules as more of a standard, saying "here, use these, but don't change them, credit us, and tell people to buy our stuff. They still own the name, and the rules, and all that -- they just allowed more people to use them. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 20:56:55
Right, but all that aside, part of protecting one's IP is proving that you have continually protected it against 'unlicensed usage', and a big chunk of what the OGL did was throw a lot of their argument into a trash can. How can you say you are actively protecting something you gave most of away for free?
Even without this movie thing - which is a BIG thing as far as a precedent goes (in the case of IP protection) - I used to have a list of dozens of instances of how they ignored flagrant violations, and also how quite a bit of 'their' IP was actually derived from other people's IP's (hell, the magic system is actually referred to as 'Vancian'... by people who work for WotC/Hasbro).
At last years Gencon, when I asked lots of young people if they "played D&D", they responded 'yes'... and then showed me their Pathfinder books. It doesn't matter whether a copy is really a 'xerox', or if my sawzall is really a 'reciprocating saw'... in the end, the court of public opinion truly decides these things. If WE consider D&D part of the public domain, there's not much they can do to change it.
Which is why they should opt away from the whole 'D&D' thing, and go with the stronger branding... the one that is better known to folks who have never picked up a P&P RPG... The Forgotten Realms.
Or Dragonlance... or Eberron... etc. Screw 'D&D', its not a branding anymore, its a category. RAS books sell. Neverwinter/Baldur's Gate VG's sell. Everyone knows who Drizzt is... go with the branding that everyone is familiar with, with no past negativity attached.
"THE FORGOTTEN REALMS... this ain't your dad's D&D"
I can see the ads now. The double entendre is that the 'old farts' are all still playing D&D... and thats become associated with PF. Turn a negative into positive... let them have the title, with all the baggage that goes with it. You want a fresh start, ditch the branding... its not doing us any favors at this point. |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 19:40:06
Don't quote me on this, because I've never seen the deal, but I have been given to understand that it was originally a sale of "Dungeons & Dragons" movie rights.
Sale, not option, so those rights are indeed "gone," so long as Sweetpea met all of its milestones (failing to meet one would be a "choke point" for killing a movie, though I'm not certain that would recover the rights...and suspect it would result in litigation, either way).
Whereas an option (by far the most usual way of handling movies, these days) is, as you mentioned, a time-limited thing.
Note that this situation does not mean Hasbro can't make, or license out (as they apparently have) rights to a Forgotten Realms movie, or Dragonlance movie, or Eberron movie...which are not "Dungeons & Dragons" movies, per se.
Standard disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, and not even an American - - and even American litigators disagree fervently over matters of U.S. law. That goes double for entertainment/Hollywood law.
love,
THO |
| BEAST |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 18:11:15
Thanks, THO!
So does this mean that he was able to secure open-ended, indefinite "rights"/options for all future films? Did TSR just sign away all of their movie rights, like that? |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 17:07:01
BEAST, Mr. Solomon ran out of money, not time, and the company that had posted the bond (think of it as insurance, a guarantee that the film would be finished) had to step in and finish the movie.
The CGA special effects and the most expensive/difficult scenes had been left until last, and so weren't done when the money ran out. They got mostly cut (that is, not made at all) because the bond company just wants to get the movie done most cheaply, not "tell the best story." So what you got (admittedly marred by some acting; e.g. the Jeremy Irons over-the-top evil wizard portrayal) was bits and pieces of a story, knitted together surprisingly well (considering what was missing). That didn't mean it was a particularly strong story, or that the end result was impressive - - I mean it surprised me how coherent the movie is, with so many important scenes just "not there."
Sweetpea (Mr. Solomon's company) actually made all of its milestones (sub-deadlines) during the process, so TSR couldn't quash the movie. It was his first project, and some wise cost-cutting decisions were made from the outset (i.e. film in Prague rather than create a lot of expensive sets), but to say it was "rushed" is to misread what went wrong with the project, IMO.
love,
THO |
| BEAST |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 21:05:32
I once heard that part of the reason why the first D&D movie sucked so badly was that the guy who made it had only bought the rights to make a D&D film for a set period of time (i.e., he optioned it), and he had had difficulty rounding up the money and the talent for most of that time period, so he was forced to rush actual production near the end of the option period.
If he actually had open-ended, non-expiring rights, then what's the real excuse for why it was so poor?!
This sounds like the Harmony Gold corporation claiming that they had the rights to cinematic and TV productions based on the Macross mecha anime property in all countries outside Japan, because of some obscure wording of the contract that allowed HG to adapt Macross as Robotech back in the mid-'80s. What a headache. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 20:57:52
*Nods* TSR sold computer gaming rights, it clearly is possible TSR or WotC sold trademark rights for movies.
Why it is in arbitration instead of court I am not sure, however many contracts do call for arbitration as first option (Some times the sole option). |
| Tyrant |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 20:25:35
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Just read that last news-blip... very interesting indeed. I have been maintaining since 4e came out that Hasbro doesn't really 'own' anything (in regards to D&D). Whether deliberate or accidental, the 3e team opened the floodgates for a world of arbitration. Funny how a lot of those guys are now working for Paizo. {smirk}
If Hasbro loses this completely, its the beginning of the end... their IP will be picked-apart one lawsuit at a time.
OGL did prevent, as I recall, use of the Trademarks. A Fantasy movie much like D&D clearly could be made though. A movie made following 3rd Edition rules actually might be legal if credit is given to WotC, there again I never saw a movie or novel that fully followed the rules.
Indeed it certainly should be interesting that another company claims rights to make a movie branded D&D. I do believe even if Hasbro loses on D&D, they still have secure FR which was not opening gaming licensed at all.
From reading the comments after that article I don't believe the OGL has anything to do with this dispute. It sounds like the guy that made the first movie owns the rights to make movies called Dungeons and Dragons with no severance clause. If that is the case, and one past round of arbitration seems to say it is, Hasbro never owned the movie rights to begin with. That is for "Dungeons and Dragons", not any of the worlds within the larger umbrella of the game, if the comments are correct. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 19:11:33
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Just read that last news-blip... very interesting indeed. I have been maintaining since 4e came out that Hasbro doesn't really 'own' anything (in regards to D&D). Whether deliberate or accidental, the 3e team opened the floodgates for a world of arbitration. Funny how a lot of those guys are now working for Paizo. {smirk}
If Hasbro loses this completely, its the beginning of the end... their IP will be picked-apart one lawsuit at a time.
OGL did prevent, as I recall, use of the Trademarks. A Fantasy movie much like D&D clearly could be made though. A movie made following 3rd Edition rules actually might be legal if credit is given to WotC, there again I never saw a movie or novel that fully followed the rules.
Indeed it certainly should be interesting that another company claims rights to make a movie branded D&D. I do believe even if Hasbro loses on D&D, they still have secure FR which was not opening gaming licensed at all. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 18:25:04
A D&D movie SHOULD take place on Oerth (Greyhawk setting). It should have Iuz the Old, Vecna, the City of Greyhawk, the Circle of Eight (with all its well-known names), etc. Then it could focus on big explosions and amazing CGI scenes, and be true to its origins. GH was 'story light', from its inception. It was all about Phat Lewtz and killing stuff (and blowing stuff up).
A Forgotten Realms movie should be different, and require a different license. Its more cerebral then mere 'D&D'. The story needs to hold its own without all the makeup and special effects.
I still think a series of movies based on the original RAS books would be well-received, and open the doors for other movies about the Realms.
EDIT:
Just read that last news-blip... very interesting indeed. I have been maintaining since 4e came out that Hasbro doesn't really 'own' anything (in regards to D&D). Whether deliberate or accidental, the 3e team opened the floodgates for a world of arbitration. Funny how a lot of those guys are now working for Paizo. {smirk}
If Hasbro loses this completely, its the beginning of the end... their IP will be picked-apart one lawsuit at a time. |
| Andrekan |
Posted - 17 May 2013 : 17:31:18
The "Falconfar Series", would make a great film for Warner. Battling it out with evil game corps and all. They shouldn't take Ed away from his current work on the Realms, though. It would also keep them out of the D&D stuff, maybe... Because this of course has nothing to do with Hasbro, Wizards, or TSR. Ed might like some extra coin. Then again maybe not... |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 15 May 2013 : 17:05:36
An interesting turn of events. |
| Plaguescarred |
Posted - 15 May 2013 : 07:33:32
Now there is Rights Battle On Dungeons & Dragons movie: Warner Bros and Universal/Hasbro Tangle
http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/rights-battle-on-dungeons-dragons-warner-bros-and-universalhasbro-tangle/ |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 15 May 2013 : 02:54:05
Och, we live in a world where the best stories are boldly emblazoned with AOL TIME WARNER DISNEY MCDONALDS COCACOLA ETC
I always consider it highly pompous whenever a movie scrolls off lengthy celebrity and production credits before even bothering to present its title. Like I really care about backstage bankrolling or who served coffee to the Driver of the Assistant for Tom Cruise's Assistant. But, hey, money makes movies so I'll save this impotent little rant for another time. |
| coach |
Posted - 15 May 2013 : 02:35:33
the BEST chance at a setting that will be recognized, a plot that is good enough for non-D&D fans, likeable characters, and having a trilogy of novels to attach it for additional sales to would be the Dragonlance Chronicles
unfortunately, looks like they only have one movie so not enough time to tell the story |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 09 May 2013 : 04:36:12
Meh, for some reason, I'm not too happy about this. And BEAST, once I was eager for a Drizzt movie, but now...not so much. |
|
|
