| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 20:31:26
Advanced Player's Guide
Okay, I literally *just* got the PDF from my subscription order. I'm got to page 12 of the book and I already decided that this one book has now replaced most of by 3.5 collection. And the book is pure crunch, no fluff. But that's a good thing.
Races
Each race gets a two-page spread detailing three things:
1) How they view each of the classes and how the class might best fit a character of that race. (Includes the six new classes introduced in the APG).
2) Alternate Racial Traits - these are a list of traits that can be swapped out for the normal racial traits (Dwarven Stonecunning, Halfling luck, etc.) In Realms terms, it's just become that much easier to play one of the demi-human subraces. Or create new ones.
3) Favored Class Options - Normally in Pathfinder, if you gain a level in a favored class, you gain an extra HP or skill point. Now, you can also choose other options, like the half-orc barbarian gaining and extra round of rage/day or the elven ranger getting a +1 per 2 levels circumstance bonus to confirm criticals with a chosen weapon.
Classes (Not going to go into great detail here, just for sake of time.)
Alchemist - Brew potions, make bombs, create personal mutagens. Works a lot like Artificer (imbuing potions with their magic, etc.)
Cavalier - This is the Marshall/Knight of Pathfinder. Each cavalier must be a member of an Order and gains benefits from that choice.
Inquisitor - Exorcist/Witch Hunter/Bounty Hunter type.
Oracle - Shaman/Favored Soul type.
Summoner - "I choose you, Pika-daemon!" Seriously, though, if you ever REALLY wanted Guenhwyvar without toting around that little figurine, this is the way to go.
Witch - Familiar? check. Cauldron? check. Hex? check. The fun part is she has to memorize her spells every morning. But with no spellbooks or divine prayers, where does she keep the spells? Her familiar teaches them to her.
Core Classes - This details alternate/new abilities for the core classes, plus some archetypes for them as well (for example: Barbarian's Drunken Brute, Bard's Detective, Cleric subdomains, Blight Druid, Fighter's Archer, DRUNKEN MASTER, Antipaladin, Urban Ranger, Rogue's Swashbuckler, Shadow Sorcerer, and new Wizard schools). They've managed to fit *all* the WotC splat books' Prestige Classes into 75 pages.
Chapters 3, 4, 5, 7: Feats, Equipment, Spells, Magic Items
I think you know what you'll find here.
Prestige Classes
Battle Herald - Leaders of armies.
Holy Vindicator - Ultra Paladin
Horizon Walker - Man vs. Wild
Master Chymist - Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. I'm serious.
Master Spy - Bard. Lem the Bard.
Nature Warden - Ultimate Ranger/Druid
Rage Prophet - The orc barbarian with the greataxe in the book describes this much better than I ever could.
Stalwart Defender - Replace Stalwart with Dwarven and remove the dwarf requirement.
New Rules
The last section of the book goes into greater detail and gives new options for Combat Maneuvers (Dirty Trick, Drag, Reposition or Steal), Hero Points and Character Traits.
Overall, the book is hefty. 333 pages of crunchy goodness. But at $39.99, it more than covers the cost of purchase. As I said at the beginning, I'm not going to need any of the Complete books and a good chunk of the Racial books are covered as well (I'll still reference them for Goliath & such, but that's about it).
Final review: Seven out of Seven Sisters.
Edit: Fixed link. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Diffan |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 15:12:13
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
But my biggest complaint (based on what folks have posted) is that they decided to go with the gawd-awful WotC Warlock for their own?
Does anyone even KNOW what a friggin' Warlock is anymore? 
Not that I mind the Warlock class (in either system), but I would definately go with a completely different name in my HB.
I'd call him an 'Eldritch Knight' or some-such. A warlock, IMHO, is the Mage who has specialized in summoning magic and holds sway over a coven. I really hate when a company applies a mythological/folklore term to a completely different creature/person.
I think the mechanics of the v3.5 Warlock were a bit misplaced. I'd have liked to see a sort of demon summoning mage with their invocations. What we got instead was a semi-striker (for lack of a better word) that sorta, kinda deals damage and has some useful invocations but lacks any direction what-so-ever.
A Warlock that has Eldritch Blast progression of +1d8 every odd level, class features that curse people (yes like 4E's version) AND has invocations with summoning powers....would be a very interesting class indeed.
Looks like I'll have to re-do the class and make it better!!
|
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 18:46:23
Ah, okay - thanks for the heads-up. 
Yeah, I re-worked the witch myself, and added some stuff from the sha'ir class of Al-Qadim (the gen is really just an Arabian-flavored familiar). Sounds like PF went the same route.
I started to create an entire set of rules just for Primitive Casters, which included 'natural talents' like Witches and Hedgewizrds, and classes that got help from 'outside sources', like Shamans & Witchdoctors. That branched into a set of rules just for familiars, which branched into yet-another set of rules covering 'special creatures' (Paladin's Mount, Animal Companions, etc).
I realized I was re-writing about a dozen classes from scratch (along with tons of other rules), and the thing was starting to look like a splatbook (just the notes!), so I trashed the project. Too much work for very little return.
Who knows? Someday it may become the basis for my own set of OGL rules.  |
| idilippy |
Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 02:20:11
Yeah I would say that the APG did not at all disappoint or fall short, the Tome of Secrets on the other hand might have been a bit of a letdown. I know I'm glad I didn't buy it, I read the Artificer class and was not all that impressed so I passed on the book. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 01:20:18
Sorry, the Warlock is in the 3PP Tome of Secrets, not in the Advanced Player's Guide. The APG has the Witch class, which is actually pretty cool (instead of a spellbook and study, they get their spells by communicating with their familiar every morning and Hexes). |
| Markustay |
Posted - 07 Nov 2010 : 22:14:22
Haven't seen it, although I hope to...
But my biggest complaint (based on what folks have posted) is that they decided to go with the gawd-awful WotC Warlock for their own?
Does anyone even KNOW what a friggin' Warlock is anymore?
Not that I mind the Warlock class (in either system), but I would definately go with a completely different name in my HB.
I'd call him an 'Eldritch Knight' or some-such. A warlock, IMHO, is the Mage who has specialized in summoning magic and holds sway over a coven. I really hate when a company applies a mythological/folklore term to a completely different creature/person.
And since I'm on this subject, rename the damn metalic-bull Gorgon and call Medusae Gorgons!!! Sheeesh!
IMHB (A new abbr. that stands for 'In My Home Brew' ), I think I will call them Taurodons. Awhile back we (the folks who helped with the Utter East thread) worked-out three different species of Gorgons - the Sthenoi (naga-like) and Euryalae (harpy-like), and Medusae (standard). I liked that so it will make it into my HB setting.
And once-again I have gone off on a tangent.... 
So the general take on this particular PF product is that it was a great idea that fell short?  |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 04:55:05
Ahhh, yes.
Artificer in ToS has Weird Science instead of Infusions, but they operate in much the same way. The BAB and Saves are different and they have other abilities (instead of a craft pool, they have Elbow Grease).
The Warlock has School Abilities based on the wizard schools and is more about Arcane Armor mastery and damage reduction. The Swashbuckler is a Dexterous fighter instead of a smart fighter and the Spellblade is ... a spellblade.
Like I said, they didn't impress me much with the book (okay, I really liked the artwork), but your mileage may vary. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 03:47:09
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I'll have to check the book when I get home.
Of course, that should tell you something in that I picked up the book for that class and can't remember how it stacked up to the original...
Your not helping my confidence here Ashe!! I think the main problems I had with the Artificer (Eberron version) was that the infusions spellcasting time was waaay stupid (like minutes) but had longer effects? I'm AFB right now so I can't check. Anyways, still useful to see how they re-vamped the Warlock who, honestly, needed some love to be a better class. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 20:09:59
I'll have to check the book when I get home.
Of course, that should tell you something in that I picked up the book for that class and can't remember how it stacked up to the original... |
| Diffan |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 19:06:36
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Well, I have the book and wasn't too impressed with it (sad, but true). I mostly picked it up because they had a build for the Artificer in it. If you really want to see what they did with stuff, definitely pick up the PDF first to make sure you like where they're going with it.
Probably what I'm going to do. I like PF's stuff, and buying PDF's are a really good choice when hardbacks aren't available.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart[/i
To me, most of the builds in there felt rushed. Remember, this was released at the same time the Core Rulebook came out, so they were updating feats/skills and trying to put together a "more balanced" class build to reflect the ideal behind Pathfinder's base classes. I felt they fell short on more than one class and haven't even touched the book since my initial read through.
That being said, it's all my own opinion of the book. I also feel I can "do it better" for the artificer and such, but what I think the classes should be like and what others do may be light-years apart. I can't say don't buy it, because I know some people liked it. It got an overall 3 out of 5 stars from consumer reviews on the Paizo site.
Hmmmm, pretty much what I figured. How's the Artificer in Tome of Secrets compared to the Eberron version? |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 18:24:15
Well, I have the book and wasn't too impressed with it (sad, but true). I mostly picked it up because they had a build for the Artificer in it. If you really want to see what they did with stuff, definitely pick up the PDF first to make sure you like where they're going with it.
To me, most of the builds in there felt rushed. Remember, this was released at the same time the Core Rulebook came out, so they were updating feats/skills and trying to put together a "more balanced" class build to reflect the ideal behind Pathfinder's base classes. I felt they fell short on more than one class and haven't even touched the book since my initial read through.
That being said, it's all my own opinion of the book. I also feel I can "do it better" for the artificer and such, but what I think the classes should be like and what others do may be light-years apart. I can't say don't buy it, because I know some people liked it. It got an overall 3 out of 5 stars from consumer reviews on the Paizo site. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 17:59:22
From the reviews I've seen on the Tome of Secrets, it might be worth getting for the PDF/$9.99 price instead of the $34.95. But still, im interested how they re-did the swashbuckler, shaman, warlock, and warlord. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 16:53:42
Officially, they can't 'convert' any of the classes from the splat books because they are trademarked, while the base classes were available through the OGL. Note that it's not the name that is trademarked, but the overall "build" of the character class (powers, etc.).
If you look at the Oracle and Knight classes, you can see similarities with Favored Soul and Marshall (respectively). There are some 3PP products out there with "unofficial" conversions, most notably Adamant Entertainment's Tome of Secrets, which does have a warlock and swashbuckler build in it. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 16:30:00
Any idea of they're going to convert the Warlock, Swashbuckler, and other classes from 3.5 stuff or if they already have a book for that?
Just wondering as I've only seen the stuff on the d20PFSRD and a few homebrew stuff (like for the Warmage which is a really, really good conversion).
I ask cuz I think the next campaign I run (besides the 4E/Us in the Realms one) is going to be the Council of Thieves adventure path for Pathfinder. |
| idilippy |
Posted - 10 Sep 2010 : 03:10:34
I bought it a few weeks ago and think it's great, now instead of worrying about converting a dozen feats or classes over for players in a Pathfinder game I can find the closest thing to it in this book and point that out to players instead. I also like the alternate racial traits and the Cavalier and Witch class a lot, the other classes I can take or leave. I really like the combat maneuvers, especially the wonderfully vague dirty trick and steal. All in all I would recommend this book to anyone playing or running a pathfinder game. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 10 Sep 2010 : 02:35:46
Finally got my copy, and while I love it, I do not agree that it invalidates the Complete/Races series. While some of the classes/races from those books can be near-replicated with the material in the APG, there are still many that I enjoy playing that cannot be replicated. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Sep 2010 : 21:40:36
This is going on my Christmas list, and making it that much harder for me to figure-out what rules I want to use for my next campaign (which I'm hoping t start within the next couple months). |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 20:15:45
I like how you think Diffan... |
| Diffan |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 19:16:25
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Heck, it fills in for Purple Dragons, Highknights, Elven Houses, etc., etc.
Yea, some really awesome ideas there. Maybe we should make a thread that could Realm-ify the Orders or do a sort of article that we saw for the 3.5, classes chronicles that Eytan did. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 17:16:00
Heck, it fills in for Purple Dragons, Highknights, Elven Houses, etc., etc. |
| Diffan |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 17:00:17
I am really interested in the Cavalier class. Looks like a great hybrid of the 3.5 Knight and Marshal as Ashe said. And the flavor of the Orders could easily be filled by Forgotten Realm elements (Knight of the Red Falcon) for example. Hmm...I'll have to get my friend to buy it. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 10 Aug 2010 : 22:30:21
I finally got my copy, and I have to say that I was surprised how good this book is. I have traditionally been *very* suspicious of splatbooks, and rarely worth the price, because usually we have picked only a handful of feats, spells, items and prestige classes from each book. Some of the stuff we've even outright banned. Not this time -- this book is pure GOLD!
There *are* some "glitches" in the book; for instance, some of the favored class benefits and feat names are weird or even bad ('Lucky Halfling'? 'Ray Shield'?) and the amount of errors is quite high. Apparently quite a few things got copy-pasted a bit too hastily and even at a quick glance one can already spot, for example, several favored class benefits that are in need of an official clarification or errata. I also would have wanted to see more "generic" prestige classes in this book; I don't think a lot of players (or GMs) will create a lot of Battle Heralds (you need to be a Cavalier/Bard) or Rage Prophets (you need to be a Barbarian/Oracle) -- especially in a game that encourages singleclassing.
However, this is an essential product that will add a LOT of options to your game, and if you're playing or running PF RPG I heartily recommend the buying this book!
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| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 22:02:44
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
As cool as the rest of it all is, that is what I was really hoping for, a fixed epic level section. That was one of my biggest beefs with 3.5, that they updated pretty much everything from 3.0 except for epic levels.
I just have to say that it doesn't matter that much to me. Before 3E/3.5, there wasn't any "Epic Level" (unless you count the Immortal D&D). So we're back to heroes that retire once they get to a certain stage in life. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 21:33:26
As cool as the rest of it all is, that is what I was really hoping for, a fixed epic level section. That was one of my biggest beefs with 3.5, that they updated pretty much everything from 3.0 except for epic levels. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 20:55:09
Alas, they do not. But the way Pathfinder is set, you can easily just continue leveling up after level 20 and just bring in the Epic Feats and such. Also, I can count on one finger the number of times I've played in an epic-level game in the last decade. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 20:44:31
But does it have rules for after level 20? |
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