| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 13:47:32
A new Realms article is up.
Explore Airspur: Villains and Vagabonds More Shady Characters of Akanul by Matt James
quote:
Explore Airspur: Villains and VagabondsMore Shady Characters of Akanulby Matt James
The city of Airspur is endlessly fascinating as a site for adventure and intrigue. In this article, you'll meet Alyshex, the half-orc weapons dealer; Kevrick, the Vistani elder; and Valshelar, a genasi whose ambitions and motivations are never clear. You'll also discover the beauty and majesty of Akanawater Falls -- and the mystery that lies beneath this crushing cascade.
The beauty and majesty of Airspur is rivaled by none with its colorful hues and gentle flowing water beneath breathtaking earth motes. It is that which stirs underneath the calm facade of this genasi city that brings the unseen, let alone understood, and the uncertainty of the night. As with each city in Faerün, there is always another side; one that many choose to ignore or are simply too afraid to acknowledge.
Looks good. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Matt James |
Posted - 03 Feb 2015 : 14:39:42
Kevrick was featured in some other FR content since this thread was made. I'll find it and try to update it. Reading back over this old thread, I can guarantee that if you have any questions about how Kevrick, and Vistani, are able to leave the domains of dread in Raveloft, he will be making an appearance at Gen Con ;) |
| Matt James |
Posted - 27 Nov 2009 : 00:20:26
Excellent. Let me know if you would like any other tid-bits relating to him. He is one of my favorite NPCs. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Nov 2009 : 23:39:33
Well, as it happens, I'm intrigued by the possibilities offered by exploring Kevrick's background. So I've decided to, at least for now, focus on his origins in my RAVENLOFT campaign, before moving him into the Realms. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 26 Nov 2009 : 18:09:51
Well, moving past the Vistani-Conspiracy...
Considering I had only 2k words to work with, I was sure to add some connections that bridged the 100 year gap. Namely a descendant of Khrulus, the previous half-orc leader of Airspur before the Spellplague as well as some political-talk of the Netherese. The "Explore" article's primary goal is to provide some plot leads for those running around the Realms. I hope those who use the content find it valuable. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Nov 2009 : 15:43:42
Ah, classic rock. Sorry. I'm more of a classical/baroque fan. Don't have much time for rock music.  |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 26 Nov 2009 : 13:49:39
Your second quote Sage. The Eagles. Hotel California. Now when ever I hear that song I will always think of Ravenloft! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Nov 2009 : 13:45:59
I'm not sure I understand the reference, Brimstone.
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| Brimstone |
Posted - 26 Nov 2009 : 13:41:31
"Their living it up at the Hotel California..."
Sorry, I couldn't resist it. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Nov 2009 : 00:16:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm in the same place as Shemmy -- it's the past Ravenloft lore, showing the demiplane as being almost impossible to escape, and the Vistani as some of its inhabitants, that makes newer lore contradicting that hard to swallow.
Well, that's part of the problem. The older RL material didn't always say that the Dreads Domains were impossible to escape from. A thorough reading of most of the published material suggests that, like Athaspace, entering and exiting the Demiplane of Dread should be difficult-to-near-impossible, but not completely impossible. Ultimately, it is left to the whims of the Dark Powers [sometimes identified as the DM], and the needs of the plot. Take Azalin's famous attempt to escape, for example.
quote:
I'll readily admit that there were past FR-Ravenloft connections, but those were all from the Realms, to Ravenloft. Kinda like a roach motel or Hotel California kind of vibe -- you can check into Ravenloft, but you can't check out.
Well, that is the essence of the RL setting, as it's informally referred to as "the prison plane."
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 22:45:24
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
So, it is valid for one-way travel only? Or is this a rebuke of all past Realmslore that encompasses these connections?
I'm really not sure how my comments invoke those questions of yours, particularly the second, but I'll try to explain myself better. On some level it is slightly jarring to me seeing a Vistani outside of Ravenloft, given their past portrayal within Ravenloft as being trapped, albeit not confined by domain boundaries. But 4e totally alters Ravenloft and changes the Vistani, so I have to gloss over the continuity dissonance. Any complain I have is more a rebuke of the 4e handling of such crossovers when they retcon a ton of stuff to fit the 4e core seemingly first rather than the FR or Ravenloft origins. But we can probably agree to disagree on the issue I suspect.
I'm in the same place as Shemmy -- it's the past Ravenloft lore, showing the demiplane as being almost impossible to escape, and the Vistani as some of its inhabitants, that makes newer lore contradicting that hard to swallow.
I'll readily admit that there were past FR-Ravenloft connections, but those were all from the Realms, to Ravenloft. Kinda like a roach motel or Hotel California kind of vibe -- you can check into Ravenloft, but you can't check out.
I'm certainly not trying to bash your work, especially since I've not read it (which is more from having issues with DDI than anything else). If Vistani are core in 4E, then I can't complain too much about their inclusion. It's just that coming from a 2E background, seeing a Vistani anywhere outside of Ravenloft is quite strange. |
| Shemmy |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 17:37:26
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
So, it is valid for one-way travel only? Or is this a rebuke of all past Realmslore that encompasses these connections?
I'm really not sure how my comments invoke those questions of yours, particularly the second, but I'll try to explain myself better. On some level it is slightly jarring to me seeing a Vistani outside of Ravenloft, given their past portrayal within Ravenloft as being trapped, albeit not confined by domain boundaries. But 4e totally alters Ravenloft and changes the Vistani, so I have to gloss over the continuity dissonance. Any complain I have is more a rebuke of the 4e handling of such crossovers when they retcon a ton of stuff to fit the 4e core seemingly first rather than the FR or Ravenloft origins. But we can probably agree to disagree on the issue I suspect. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 16:53:53
So, it is valid for one-way travel only? Or is this a rebuke of all past Realmslore that encompasses these connections? |
| Shemmy |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 07:01:49
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertIt's just that for me, the Vistani are something that is Ravenloft-only, and considering the difficulty of getting out of the Dread Domains, I wouldn't expect to see too many Ravenloft natives walking about elsewhere. So a Vistani anywhere other than Ravenloft simply doesn't feel right to me.
Likewise. I'm all for planar crossovers between campaign settings (admittedly I think it worked better prior to the 3e planar retcons and to a much larger degree the 4e retcons planar and otherwise that seriously, deeply muddy the waters), and I'm responsible for at least one cleric of Lathander in the gatetown of Ecstasy during the late 3.x era.
But the use of Vistani in this context, especially after the 4e changes to the Vistani and its changes to what Ravenloft is/was really comes across as a major disconnect for me. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 02:15:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's just that for me, the Vistani are something that is Ravenloft-only, and considering the difficulty of getting out of the Dread Domains, I wouldn't expect to see too many Ravenloft natives walking about elsewhere.
Well, we haven't, really. I mean, aside from the now infamous "Lord Soth" case and his eventual return to Krynn only to meet his demise during the War of Souls, there's been very few RL natives to ever find their way out of the demiplane. Unless it was part of those early adventure modules published for the setting, of course. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 02:07:39
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Perhaps I am very influenced by planar travel, including spelljammer and planescape, and I really like the idea of such; even in the Realms. Please don't hate me 
Oh, don't get me wrong... Spelljammer was my first love among D&D settings; just look at my username and sig! And I thought Ravenloft very interesting, though I didn't really want to play there.
It's just that for me, the Vistani are something that is Ravenloft-only, and considering the difficulty of getting out of the Dread Domains, I wouldn't expect to see too many Ravenloft natives walking about elsewhere. So a Vistani anywhere other than Ravenloft simply doesn't feel right to me. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 15:57:26
I couldn't agree more. I think it makes for a more dynamic and interesting world. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 06:23:17
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Perhaps I am very influenced by planar travel, including spelljammer and planescape, and I really like the idea of such; even in the Realms. Please don't hate me
You won't hear me arguing. You're combining three of my all-time favourites TSR settings, so anything official that continues that trend is alright in my well-worn book.
In fact, if you look over some of the really old scrolls here at Candlekeep, you'll find that I've long been a proponent of running campaigns that combine elements -- both major and minor -- from all three worlds. My own interpretation of the Realms, for example, is continually built upon a foundation that borrows heavily from both SPELLJAMMER and PLANESCAPE. [Along with a few other worlds too ]
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| Brimstone |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 05:51:22
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Please don't hate me
We will think about it.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 05:09:55
Since we're talking about two of my favourite settings...
Here are all the official ties between the Realms and RAVENLOFT:-
quote:
From: Forgotten Realms
Draga Saltbitter – was a pirate in the Sword Coast
Chardath Spulzeeer – from area south of Waterdeep (see: Castle Spulzeeer)
Gondegal – conqueror of Arabel and Knight of the Shadows.
Harkon Lukas – grew up in Cormyr, now in Kartakass
Hazlik – Red Wizard from Thay
Jander Sunstar
Salizarr the Meazel – lived under Cormyr’s catacombs now in Necropolis
Nova Vassa – from Vaasa and Hordelands
Von Kharkov – Lord of Valachan
From: Kara-Tur (Forgotten Realms)
Domain of I'Cath
Jahed of the Stalkers (see: MCII)
Mayonaka (see: MCII)
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| Matt James |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 05:07:45
TSR 9559 - Champions of the Mist
quote:
In truth, however, Gondegal's fate was very different. His flight from the armies of Cormyr carried him farther than even he could have planned. Moving into an area of foggy marsh to escape his pursuers, Gondegal found himself swallowed up by the Mists of Ravenloft. He eventually emerged in the domain of Falkovnia.
That's the most direct connection of the Realms and Ravenloft that I can find. I know there are some others, but I can't give you much more until I get back home. Perhaps I am very influenced by planar travel, including spelljammer and planescape, and I really like the idea of such; even in the Realms. Please don't hate me |
| Matt James |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 04:58:22
Gondegal ended up in Ravenloft. I'll find the reference, but the connections are there, as with other settings. A darker form of planar travel perhaps, but not unheard of.
(Cormyr (1994 sourcebook), p. 32-33) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 04:10:43
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, the fact that we had non-Ravenloft Vistani back in 2E is new to me.
It wasn't really a case of non-RAVENLOFT Vistani, more like a kender-in-the-Realms example -- with a Vistani [can't recall the tribe] finding herself outside the Domains of Dread for a time before being pulled back.
And it wasn't a big deal, as I recall. In fact, I think there was only ever one instance of it that was later subjected to a retcon in subsequent RL material. I know it wasn't maintained in the 3e RL sources published by White Wolf.
quote:
I do have to say, though, that I have a hard time separating the Vistani from Ravenloft -- I've never seen them elsewhere, and they seemed to me to be as much an aspect of that setting as kender are to Krynn.
Well, the entire premise of RAVENLOFT as a nearly-inescapable realm makes it harder to qualify how a Vistani could, conceivably, escape the Dread Realm. But we know other RL-specific characters have managed cross-overs between worlds and RAVENLOFT [and back again] before, so I can only imagine this Vistani instance of 2e was just another example of that.
...
*Sigh*
I'm going to have to dig through my old books. I can't help thinking I've forgotten something important about this, and I don't really like going from memory.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 03:38:57
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Wait, a Vistani? Is this a Ravenloft transplant, a member of a race that has nothing to do with a prior race sharing the name (like the dragonborn of 3E and 4E), or have the Vistani gone core?
Christopher beat me to it. The recent DRAGON articles on the Vistani pretty much re-establish their presence in D&D lore, after their notable absence during core 3e [after they were consigned to the White Wolf interpretation of RAVENLOFT].
There were a few instances of Vistani in core material during the days of 2e, as I recall, so this really isn't anything new. And given the multiversal aspects of the Great Wheel, which allowed extensive travel between settings, 'twas almost expected -- provided the Vistani was successfully able to leave the Dread Domains, of course.
Well, the fact that we had non-Ravenloft Vistani back in 2E is new to me. However, if that's the case, then I'll not complain about it. I do have to say, though, that I have a hard time separating the Vistani from Ravenloft -- I've never seen them elsewhere, and they seemed to me to be as much an aspect of that setting as kender are to Krynn. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 02:45:28
Whew, I am glad the Sage and Chris jumped in. I am on vacation right now with BRJ but I will try to provide some references when I get home if needed. I have always loved the idea of fantasy-based gypsy cultures. The Vistani are exactly this, in D&D. There is much more to Kevrick than his introduction in this article and is a vessel for many more stories, especially in the Realms. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 14:46:54
I was beginning to think that I had lost my mind for a second there Sage...
Makes sense to me. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 14:42:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Wait, a Vistani? Is this a Ravenloft transplant, a member of a race that has nothing to do with a prior race sharing the name (like the dragonborn of 3E and 4E), or have the Vistani gone core?
Christopher beat me to it. The recent DRAGON articles on the Vistani pretty much re-establish their presence in D&D lore, after their notable absence during core 3e [after they were consigned to the White Wolf interpretation of RAVENLOFT].
There were a few instances of Vistani in core material during the days of 2e, as I recall, so this really isn't anything new. And given the multiversal aspects of the Great Wheel, which allowed extensive travel between settings, 'twas almost expected -- provided the Vistani was successfully able to leave the Dread Domains, of course. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 14:38:43
I didn't even know that Christopher. |
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 14:33:22
Go, Matt, go! Fun stuff.
And congrats on hitting 1K, Brimstone!
Wooly, to quote the material that introduced the Vistani into 4E, the word does not (necessarily) denote "a race but a supernatural blood connection between folk of various races who have grown up in or joined Vistani clans." [Chris Sims. "A People Apart," sidebar: "Playing Vistani." Dragon #380 (October 2009): p. 76.]
The article (one of three about the Vistani) recomplicates the concept a couple of times and offers DMs lots of options on how to use the concept, so in individual campaigns the Vistani could be a single race, sure. The "Vistani in the Forgotten Realms" sidebar at p. 80 in that same article mentions several ways they could be introduced.
Cheers,
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| Brimstone |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 14:21:42
Thats what it says. In the article it says that the Vistani travel the known worlds. Plus its 4E D&D one Core now. Everything is interchangeable.
He is a Level 15 Elite Skirmisher...
Its a 6 page article.
Maybe Matt will come on by and share with us.
Post #1000 |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 14:15:06
Wait, a Vistani? Is this a Ravenloft transplant, a member of a race that has nothing to do with a prior race sharing the name (like the dragonborn of 3E and 4E), or have the Vistani gone core? |
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