| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 08:22:07
The PDF can be found here.
It is an article from Dragon 366 which is about one of the last bastions of lights in the Feywild which is proving increasingly hostile to the eladrin and their allies. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 18:37:07
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
For me this is just an excuse to allow everyone to play a "special race" (like Dragonborn and others) which become "common races" then. Everyone wants to feel special, right? But what happens when special becomes everyday stuff? It looses the "special tag" and simply becomes common.
I think it really is more about making a setting (not necessarily the FR--I'm talking core here) "Points of Light"--the whole point is that the civilized races live in islands of civilization among a sea of wilderness. According to the material I've read, the player races are (as races) quite familiar with each other thanks to the empires that brought them together in the past.
quote:
This is just one more piece of evidence that 4e is written for the "I wanna be a hero [=special] from level 1" crowd, fully ignoring the fact that most heroes only become heroes through challenges and not born as one.
I agree with that principle. However, I would like to remind you that even the 3E rulebooks liked to point out that even level 1 PC characters were "a cut above the rest of the crowd" or dare I say it, special. Telling the players that their characters are "special", whether that's desirable or not, isn't something new for 4E. |
| Pandora |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 10:38:30
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I would like to point out that one of the tropes of the 4E "Points of Light" setting is that all the civilized races have more or less fallen on hard times--the last great human empire has fallen, most of the world is untamed, and no one race is dominant (the "humans control the world" trope is non-existant, for example). With that in mind, the eladrin aren't really any more beleaguered than elves, humans, dwarves, tieflings, etc.
For me this is just an excuse to allow everyone to play a "special race" (like Dragonborn and others) which become "common races" then. Everyone wants to feel special, right? But what happens when special becomes everyday stuff? It looses the "special tag" and simply becomes common. This is just one more piece of evidence that 4e is written for the "I wanna be a hero [=special] from level 1" crowd, fully ignoring the fact that most heroes only become heroes through challenges and not born as one. Even Hercules had to prove himself worthy to be allowed into the Olymp and the heroes which are born as such have so ridiculous powers that they fit more into a comic-style game than into a fantasy game. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 09:05:22
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
the idea that elves are necessarily apart and often leaving goes back to the Nordic alfar and to Celtic faerie (as distinct form "fairy") tales.
With the Nordic and Celtic mythologies the elves had their own realm and occasionally visited the human realm. So in that sense they were apart but they were never leaving. |
| chance87 |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 01:33:37
I'm not overly thrilled with the way eladrin are handled as a PC race. The worst, of course, being the corruption of the eladrin as the CG outsider race of Planescape.
That being said, I could have lived with an elven race - call them Fey-Tel'quess for lack of a better term - which originated in Faerie/Feywild.
I think this race could be the "elder elves" from which all others are descended, if we say that elves are a race with an affinity for adaptation to their environment. The Fey-Tel'quess are the most akin to fey, while the green/wood elves have been on Toril the longest, and have changed to suit their natural environment. The gold and moon elves are mid-way between the two, having arrived on Toril much later than the first arrivals. The star elves would have evolved as they have due to the energies that permeate their demi-plane.
This could prove interesting, as sages debated over whether drow changed to fit in with their environment following the Descent, or if their current state is the direct result of Corellon's wrath.
This also gives rise to the question, what environment forced the avariel into their current form. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 00:22:14
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
I was bemused by the indication that the eladrin are a beleaguered race, something I hadn't gleaned from the stuff in the Player's Handbook.
If you read enough fantasy, you eventually realize that these elf-y races just never catch a break. They're always in Retreat, decadent, being pushed out of their ancestral lands by the worship of the White Christ, or some darn thing.
I would like to point out that one of the tropes of the 4E "Points of Light" setting is that all the civilized races have more or less fallen on hard times--the last great human empire has fallen, most of the world is untamed, and no one race is dominant (the "humans control the world" trope is non-existant, for example). With that in mind, the eladrin aren't really any more beleaguered than elves, humans, dwarves, tieflings, etc. |
| Chosen of Moradin |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 21:35:03
quote:
Originally posted by Ranak
I can't say I approve of the Tolkienesque name - I know a few of Realms Kindgoms use a few Tolkien inspired suffixes, etc. But Mithrendain? The elves called Galdalf Mithrandir. Too close for comfort.
Perhaps I am nitpicking...
Aglarond?  |
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 21:28:04
With regard to the point raised by Richard Lee Byers and addressed by Rupert about "elf-y races..."
I think there are two things at play here, and referencing Clute's and Grant's Encyclopedia of Fantasy illuminate both. First is an idea that we're all familiar with as readers of fantasy even if we don't have a term for it, which is what the encyclopedists call thinning in an article of the same name. That's the idea, more or less, that in much fantasy the magic is going away.
Clute wrote the article at page 942 and says: "Even in high fantasy--which tends to be ringfenced from time's arrow--the secondary world is almost constantly under some threat of lessening, a threat frequently accompanied by mourning and/or a sense of wrongness. In the strucutrally complete fantasy, thinning can be seen as a reduction of the healthy land..." He goes on to mention Tolkien and his elves explicitly when he says that "The Lord of the Rings comes at the end of aeons of slow loss. Within that text, local thinnings occur--those points when the elves are perceived as heading west, for instance..."
So a Shadowfell under threat of thinning, or maybe darkening, is certainly an old and rich theme.
Another thing to consider about threatened elfkind is the idea that, in one sense, that's what elves have always been for. Even before Lord Dunsany, Poul Anderson, and of course most successfully and completely, Tolkien himself, began the project of making literary "elves" into the 20th century adult repackaging of fairies (or what the Victorians had tamed and domesticated into fairies), the idea that elves are necessarily apart and often leaving goes back to the Nordic alfar and to Celtic faerie (as distinct form "fairy") tales. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 20:37:27
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
I was bemused by the indication that the eladrin are a beleaguered race, something I hadn't gleaned from the stuff in the Player's Handbook.
If you read enough fantasy, you eventually realize that these elf-y races just never catch a break. They're always in Retreat, decadent, being pushed out of their ancestral lands by the worship of the White Christ, or some darn thing.
It is a common theme, though I've seen one series that avoided it: the Riftwar books and their sequels, by Raymond E. Feist. He's got several flavors of elf, and only smaller groups of them (like the glamredhel, until they went to Elvandar) are diminishing. Larger groups -- particularly the eledhel (regular elves) and moredhel (dark elves who are nearly identical to regular elves) -- are doing just fine. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 20:36:10
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
The art is wonderful, especially the very first picture of the city.
Absolutely! It's like many things if you haven't got people hooked by the first page then you've failed. A decent picture really does more than a thousand words. |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 20:11:34
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Are Fomorians based on Irish mythology?
I think so. What you can read about them in the 3.5 MM II seems to be in accordance with Irish mythology. 4e doesn't seem to have change that.
The art is wonderful, especially the very first picture of the city. |
| Kiaransalyn |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 20:06:44
quote:
Originally posted by Ranak
I can't say I approve of the Tolkienesque name - I know a few of Realms Kindgoms use a few Tolkien inspired suffixes, etc. But Mithrendain? The elves called Galdalf Mithrandir. Too close for comfort.
Perhaps I am nitpicking...
I wonder what elves would have been called if Tolkien's works had never become so widely read? Would we have had names like Stardust Treedaughter, Feychap Bigbow, etc? Or would we have names based on the rather sinister Redcap? It often seems that with any setting designers can't resist the lure of Tolkien and use his work as their inspiration. And to be fair, if you're going to be inspired use the best.
That said, with my own campaign I chose another aspect of Tolkien's work to give me inspiration. I constructed my own language then obeying the various laws of sound changes (e.g. Grimm's Law) I made several daughter languages, more grand-daughter languages and even more great grand-daughter languages. The beauty of the daughter languages and some of the grand-daughter languages is that they're extinct, which makes them very useful for creating place-names. It gives everything a touch of authenticity.
Anyway, to get back on topic...
Are Fomorians based on Irish mythology?
I like the article. Unlike the others it's staying on my desktop. I would have appreciated a map of the city and breakdown of its own stat's. Still, it looks a nice article. I'll give it a thorough read. I like what I've read so far. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 18:00:44
I was bemused by the indication that the eladrin are a beleaguered race, something I hadn't gleaned from the stuff in the Player's Handbook.
If you read enough fantasy, you eventually realize that these elf-y races just never catch a break. They're always in Retreat, decadent, being pushed out of their ancestral lands by the worship of the White Christ, or some darn thing. |
| crazedventurers |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 17:38:16
Just wondering why on the Dragon front page the link to this article reads
Mithrendain, Citadel of the Feywild
08/04/2008 - 366: The kingdom of Cormyr is old yet strong and vigorous. This civilized land carved itself out of the wilderness through grit, bravery, and determination. Since then, Cormyreans have had to make difficult choices to ensure their security.
by Rodney Thompson
odd that, must be Grimwald again..........
Cheers
Damian |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 17:10:09
I like the 4E eladrin, so I liked this article. |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 17:08:16
Ack, Eladrin. One of the many little things that make 4th ed crap. I take that back, it's the fey-step garbage more than the idea of the "high" elves. Although the artwork in the article looked neat. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 16:37:22
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
I'm confused. Is this is part of the new Realms?
Nope, "core".
I'll read this later. I like the core material.
EDIT: Wow, I like this article! I'm getting some great ideas from it, that's for sure. |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 13:52:14
The article is not linked with a special campaign setting, so it can be placed in every one, even in the new Realms. It is a city in the Feywild, and as such it can exist in the Realms' Feywild. |
| RodOdom |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 10:32:37
I'm confused. Is this is part of the new Realms? |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 10:05:52
There are more similarities: edain means "humans" (Sindarin Pl. form from Sg. adan), which is similar to -endain in the name of city here, whereas mith- means "grey, light grey, mist" (mithrim - Sinda elves of the grey north). Mithrandir is the grey pilgrim (mith + randir), the name the elves of Middle Earth gave the maia Olorin.
But I don't think that these similarities are intentional in this case. I think the author searched for names sounding "elfish" in a way, and being accustomed to classical fantasy it is likely that he developed something which resembles Tolkien's languages. |
| Ranak |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 09:54:30
I can't say I approve of the Tolkienesque name - I know a few of Realms Kindgoms use a few Tolkien inspired suffixes, etc. But Mithrendain? The elves called Galdalf Mithrandir. Too close for comfort.
Perhaps I am nitpicking...
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
The PDF can be found here.
It is an article from Dragon 366 which is about one of the last bastions of lights in the Feywild which is proving increasingly hostile to the eladrin and their allies.
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